CDZ Germany Prosecutes Auschwitz Guard. Good Thing or Not?

[The Rabbi]

So Germany is putting a 93yr old man on trial for his role during the war at Auschwitz. His job was to collect money from the arriving Jews, most of whom were killed within hours of arrival.
My question is, is this really worthwhile? They will spend large amounts of money to prosecute an elderly man because he was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side. If he were complicit in raids that killed Jews or helped round them up, sure. Not much of an issue. But he has lived openly in Germany since the war and spoken about his role.
What will they punish him with? Life in prison? That's absurd for a 93yr old.
The best thing they could do is take a complete oral history from him of what exactly he did, why he did it, what the circumstances were, what he remembers from it and everything else they can think of. Then keep that oral history along with the other trillions of documents from that era to demonstrate to future generations that yes it really happened and here's why and here's why we cant let it happen again.

This, and other roles in the concentration camp system has no place in modern warfare so can see a need to prosecute such participants. They weren't acting in a soldier's role and soldier's around the world would take exception to them using that as a defense. They were simply criminals and thus should be prosecuted as criminals.

So we should prosecute the people who worked at the Japanese internment camps too?

Is no comparison between American Japanese internment camps and Nazi concentration camps. Anyone attempting to make such a comparison is only revealing their utter lack of knowledge of the two.

There are obviously points of comparison as well as very real differences. But if you want to argue that in war time it is illegal to round up civilians for any reason then we should prosecute the guards at the Jap internment camps as well. The British rounded up German nationals in WW2 as well. Perhaps they should be prosecuted too.

He didn’t work at a camp that rounded up people for any reason. He worked at a camp that rounded up people to burn and torture them to death in horrific ways.

And? It's like saying we should prosecute Wehrmacht soldiers because they served in an army that committed atrocities. It's absurd.

 

[Ravi]

Many German soldiers transferred to combat units on the eastern front rather than serve in the camps. The guards had safe jobs that kept them out of combat. In exchange they were required to assist in the murder, thievery and torture of innocents, including children. The men and women who chose to remain as guards were cowards and criminals. Allowing them to go unpunished is an insult to those who refused and instead chose to be soldiers bravely defending their country in combat or other capacities.

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

If he felt he did nothing wrong, why is he on record claiming he was morally responsible?

 

[Camp]

Many German soldiers transferred to combat units on the eastern front rather than serve in the camps. The guards had safe jobs that kept them out of combat. In exchange they were required to assist in the murder, thievery and torture of innocents, including children. The men and women who chose to remain as guards were cowards and criminals. Allowing them to go unpunished is an insult to those who refused and instead chose to be soldiers bravely defending their country in combat or other capacities.

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

 

[The Rabbi]

Many German soldiers transferred to combat units on the eastern front rather than serve in the camps. The guards had safe jobs that kept them out of combat. In exchange they were required to assist in the murder, thievery and torture of innocents, including children. The men and women who chose to remain as guards were cowards and criminals. Allowing them to go unpunished is an insult to those who refused and instead chose to be soldiers bravely defending their country in combat or other capacities.

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

That would be illegal to do in the US, called an ex post facto law. Just because its their business doesnt mean I cant have an opinion about it.

 

[Ravi]

Many German soldiers transferred to combat units on the eastern front rather than serve in the camps. The guards had safe jobs that kept them out of combat. In exchange they were required to assist in the murder, thievery and torture of innocents, including children. The men and women who chose to remain as guards were cowards and criminals. Allowing them to go unpunished is an insult to those who refused and instead chose to be soldiers bravely defending their country in combat or other capacities.

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

 

[FA_Q2]

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

You support making law retroactive?
I find that concept a terrible idea.

 

[The Rabbi]

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

Germany has spent probably like a trillion dollars paying out to victims, building memorials, teaching it in schools etc. If any country has ever made amends for what they did, Germany certainly has.
Poland otoh is still denying they played any role whatsoever in the Holocaust. They are lying thieves.

 

[Camp]

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

You support making law retroactive?
I find that concept a terrible idea.

I went back and reread the BBC article. I was wrong about the "new law". The article states that a "new ruling"gave prosecutors the opinion they could bring charges. When he was charged in the eighties there was not enough evidence.

 

[Bleipriester]

So Germany is putting a 93yr old man on trial for his role during the war at Auschwitz. His job was to collect money from the arriving Jews, most of whom were killed within hours of arrival.
My question is, is this really worthwhile? They will spend large amounts of money to prosecute an elderly man because he was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side. If he were complicit in raids that killed Jews or helped round them up, sure. Not much of an issue. But he has lived openly in Germany since the war and spoken about his role.
What will they punish him with? Life in prison? That's absurd for a 93yr old.
The best thing they could do is take a complete oral history from him of what exactly he did, why he did it, what the circumstances were, what he remembers from it and everything else they can think of. Then keep that oral history along with the other trillions of documents from that era to demonstrate to future generations that yes it really happened and here's why and here's why we cant let it happen again.

It is nonsense. Law has changed in 2011 and now they make this lawsuit. He is accused of complicity to murder in 300.000 (!!) cases and can expect 3 (!!) years of jail. He said, he heard about mass killings and gas chambers on his arrival but - honestly - what could he have done without becoming the next victim?
What you said about the wrong place is very true.

 

[The Rabbi]

So Germany is putting a 93yr old man on trial for his role during the war at Auschwitz. His job was to collect money from the arriving Jews, most of whom were killed within hours of arrival.
My question is, is this really worthwhile? They will spend large amounts of money to prosecute an elderly man because he was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side. If he were complicit in raids that killed Jews or helped round them up, sure. Not much of an issue. But he has lived openly in Germany since the war and spoken about his role.
What will they punish him with? Life in prison? That's absurd for a 93yr old.
The best thing they could do is take a complete oral history from him of what exactly he did, why he did it, what the circumstances were, what he remembers from it and everything else they can think of. Then keep that oral history along with the other trillions of documents from that era to demonstrate to future generations that yes it really happened and here's why and here's why we cant let it happen again.

It is nonsense. Law has changed in 2011 and now they make this lawsuit. He is accused of complicity to murder in 300.000 (!!) cases and can expect 3 (!!) years of jail. He said, he heard about mass killings and gas chambers on his arrival but - honestly - what could he have done without becoming the next victim.
What you said about the wrong place is very true.

Like he sat there and planned it when in fact he was some 20-something guy who wanted what all the cool kids had, a brown shirt and a deathshead pin.

 

[Ravi]

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

You support making law retroactive?
I find that concept a terrible idea.

I find the concept of gassing millions of people a terrible idea.

 

[Ravi]

You think they had janitors? Pretty sure the janitors were the inmates.
Most of the guards that were captured had their cases adjudicated rather quickly. Some managed to escape capture and melted into the general population. Those are the ones we read about these many years later. They get discovered and brought to justice because of the commitments made to hunt them down forever, without exception. There are no doubt former guards who kept their mouths shut and secrets kept until their last dying breath. There are probably some other 93 year old fugitives in hiding. This will serve as a message to them to stay hidden.

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

Germany has spent probably like a trillion dollars paying out to victims, building memorials, teaching it in schools etc. If any country has ever made amends for what they did, Germany certainly has.
Poland otoh is still denying they played any role whatsoever in the Holocaust. They are lying thieves.

IMO, they can never do enough. But the still prance around like they are the masters of the universe.

 

[Ravi]

So Germany is putting a 93yr old man on trial for his role during the war at Auschwitz. His job was to collect money from the arriving Jews, most of whom were killed within hours of arrival.
My question is, is this really worthwhile? They will spend large amounts of money to prosecute an elderly man because he was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side. If he were complicit in raids that killed Jews or helped round them up, sure. Not much of an issue. But he has lived openly in Germany since the war and spoken about his role.
What will they punish him with? Life in prison? That's absurd for a 93yr old.
The best thing they could do is take a complete oral history from him of what exactly he did, why he did it, what the circumstances were, what he remembers from it and everything else they can think of. Then keep that oral history along with the other trillions of documents from that era to demonstrate to future generations that yes it really happened and here's why and here's why we cant let it happen again.

It is nonsense. Law has changed in 2011 and now they make this lawsuit. He is accused of complicity to murder in 300.000 (!!) cases and can expect 3 (!!) years of jail. He said, he heard about mass killings and gas chambers on his arrival but - honestly - what could he have done without becoming the next victim.
What you said about the wrong place is very true.

Like he sat there and planned it when in fact he was some 20-something guy who wanted what all the cool kids had, a brown shirt and a deathshead pin.

Fuck, are you two serious?????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Bleipriester]

So Germany is putting a 93yr old man on trial for his role during the war at Auschwitz. His job was to collect money from the arriving Jews, most of whom were killed within hours of arrival.
My question is, is this really worthwhile? They will spend large amounts of money to prosecute an elderly man because he was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side. If he were complicit in raids that killed Jews or helped round them up, sure. Not much of an issue. But he has lived openly in Germany since the war and spoken about his role.
What will they punish him with? Life in prison? That's absurd for a 93yr old.
The best thing they could do is take a complete oral history from him of what exactly he did, why he did it, what the circumstances were, what he remembers from it and everything else they can think of. Then keep that oral history along with the other trillions of documents from that era to demonstrate to future generations that yes it really happened and here's why and here's why we cant let it happen again.

It is nonsense. Law has changed in 2011 and now they make this lawsuit. He is accused of complicity to murder in 300.000 (!!) cases and can expect 3 (!!) years of jail. He said, he heard about mass killings and gas chambers on his arrival but - honestly - what could he have done without becoming the next victim.
What you said about the wrong place is very true.

Like he sat there and planned it when in fact he was some 20-something guy who wanted what all the cool kids had, a brown shirt and a deathshead pin.

Being a member of the SS was very popular. Even Günter Grass, one of Germany´s most famous authors and Nazi-despisers was a proud SS member.
G nter Grass - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Bleipriester]

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

Germany has spent probably like a trillion dollars paying out to victims, building memorials, teaching it in schools etc. If any country has ever made amends for what they did, Germany certainly has.
Poland otoh is still denying they played any role whatsoever in the Holocaust. They are lying thieves.

IMO, they can never do enough. But the still prance around like they are the masters of the universe.

Nonsense. It is nut "us". Keep your collective guild for yourself, please. And we don´t prance around like we are the masters of the universe. Look at Germany today and you feel nothing but pity.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Many German soldiers transferred to combat units on the eastern front rather than serve in the camps. The guards had safe jobs that kept them out of combat. In exchange they were required to assist in the murder, thievery and torture of innocents, including children. The men and women who chose to remain as guards were cowards and criminals. Allowing them to go unpunished is an insult to those who refused and instead chose to be soldiers bravely defending their country in combat or other capacities.

What I want to know is if this is universal. Are all guards that were not directly related to the killings being prosecuted? Are they prosecuting the janitors?

Yes. They have been, every one that could be found. Many, however, slipped through the woodwork down to Austria, because we were unbelievably lenient with the Austrians in order to make sure that Austria would be a neutral country following WWII. The Russians occupied Vienna, not the western allies.

 

[bodecea]

So Germany is putting a 93yr old man on trial for his role during the war at Auschwitz. His job was to collect money from the arriving Jews, most of whom were killed within hours of arrival.
My question is, is this really worthwhile? They will spend large amounts of money to prosecute an elderly man because he was basically in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side. If he were complicit in raids that killed Jews or helped round them up, sure. Not much of an issue. But he has lived openly in Germany since the war and spoken about his role.
What will they punish him with? Life in prison? That's absurd for a 93yr old.
The best thing they could do is take a complete oral history from him of what exactly he did, why he did it, what the circumstances were, what he remembers from it and everything else they can think of. Then keep that oral history along with the other trillions of documents from that era to demonstrate to future generations that yes it really happened and here's why and here's why we cant let it happen again.

This, and other roles in the concentration camp system has no place in modern warfare so can see a need to prosecute such participants. They weren't acting in a soldier's role and soldier's around the world would take exception to them using that as a defense. They were simply criminals and thus should be prosecuted as criminals.

So we should prosecute the people who worked at the Japanese internment camps too?

Murder doesn't have a statute of limitations...what Japanese were murdered? (this comment does not in any way condone how our government treated Japanese-Americans)

 

[Ravi]

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

Germany has spent probably like a trillion dollars paying out to victims, building memorials, teaching it in schools etc. If any country has ever made amends for what they did, Germany certainly has.
Poland otoh is still denying they played any role whatsoever in the Holocaust. They are lying thieves.

IMO, they can never do enough. But the still prance around like they are the masters of the universe.

Nonsense. It is nut "us". Keep your collective guild for yourself, please. And we don´t prance around like we are the masters of the universe. Look at Germany today and you feel nothing but pity.

Didn't you just post the other day that Germans shouldn't feel any responsibility for the holocaust?

 

[FA_Q2]

Ones that are hidden are irrelevant – they are unknown. If what you say is true then I don’t see the problem with prosecuting him. He worked for and was complicit in a horrific institution. As long as the law is applied evenly there is cause to put him in prison.

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

You support making law retroactive?
I find that concept a terrible idea.

I find the concept of gassing millions of people a terrible idea.

Silly deflection.
One has naught to do with the other.

 

[Ravi]

What he says is not true. Everyone knew about him but felt he had done nothing wrong.

The article said they did not have enough evidence and reason to charge and convict him in the eighties and new laws made it possible to now charge him. In any case, it is German business and how they handle old concentration camp guards or soldiers is their business.

And good for Germany. They have a duty to kill their evil past. I still can't stand going there, wondering why they aren't all falling over themselves apologizing.

You support making law retroactive?
I find that concept a terrible idea.

I find the concept of gassing millions of people a terrible idea.

Silly deflection.
One has naught to do with the other.

Certainly it does.