George Zimmerman

[thereisnospoon]

This is what liberals want to legalize.

Prosecutor: Teens killed man in ?knock ?em down? game - Chicago Sun-Times

Three teenagers accused of killing a 62-year-old father-of-12 in West Rogers Park were playing a game called “Pick ‘em out and knock ‘em down” when they videotaped themselves punching him in the face, prosecutors say.

Malik Jones, 16, Nicholas Ayala, 17, and Anthony Malcolm, 18, were caught after the video of Jones fatally punching Delfino Mora was posted on Jones’ Facebook page, according to authorities.

They profile someone they think won't or can't fight back and "play". Which is exactly what Trayvon Martin did when he profiled George Zimmerman as a victim.

Back in the 80's and 90's the New York City version was called "wilding'...Same MO..Innocent people, mostly Caucasian, more times than not, women, were selected because they appeared they could not fight back. One woman was repeatedly hit in the head with a cobblestone, stripped of her clothing and sexually assaulted in BOTH entries.
The excuse used by these fucking monsters: "We was just wildin' "...

It use to be that people worked or had good opportunities once upon a time, and they didn't have time for all this evil mess to go on, but because of the way things have gone in America, well all that concept for Americans has went south or either the south has come over here or it has went over the waters to China in so that the Americans can't see what their own government/business sector has been up to with modern day slavery over there. I guess it is what it is, and it would take a miracle to change it back to what we once new had worked.

So you excuse or even support a justification of this? The victimizing of innocent people who have ZERO involvement in the issues you present?
You are a barbarian.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Your post is nonsense.
Which ideology never saw a tax it did not like? Liberalism.
Which ideology created political correctness? Liberalism.
Which ideology is steeped in large central planning type government? Liberalism.
Which ideology supports increasing government employment? Liberalism.
Which ideology objects to market based capitalism? Liberalism.
Which ideology is inexorably tied to race or status? Liberalism.

You can deny all you like. These are the facts. They are incontrovertable.
Your responses are simply protestations of those facts.
Leftism, liberalism....Same shit. Different flies. There is no escape for what you are.

No, not "facts"; these are the inchoate emotional-basket-case parrotings of the droppings of demagogue talk radio. Nothing to do with political science.

Which ideology never saw a tax it did not like? -- Absurd. No ideology has "likes". That's the emotional basket case talking. AFAIK there is no political ideology of any kind that taxes for the sake of taxing. Does not apply. Taxing for actual purposes is done by everybody.

Which ideology created political correctness? -- Ludicrous. PC is not a political force at all; it's a social one. It's created by hoi polloi.

Which ideology is steeped in large central planning type government? -- Both the left and the right "grow" government; the left for social programs, safety nets and the welfare state; the right for military (euphemistically, "defense") spending and the like. But Liberalism isn't interested in growing government. That which governs least governs best.

Which ideology supports increasing government employment? -- same as above.

Which ideology objects to market based capitalism? -- both the left and the right put dampers on that, the left by encouraging decentralized systems that favour workers, the right by encouraging centralized entities that favour monopolies and oligarchies, but Liberalism is what makes capitalism possible. It's the throwing off of the yoke of aristocracy.

Which ideology is inexorably tied to race or status? -- that's probably the right, which is based on hierarchy and merit -- as opposed to the Liberal maxim that "all men are created equal". Both Liberalism and Leftism lean to egalitarian outlooks, the difference being that Liberalism does so by simply letting it be and Leftism tends to make it happen artificially (e.g. affirmative action).

You haven't really thought this through, it would seem.

(/offtopic)

Yes. Facts. Your side owns all of it.

 

[Pop23]

No, not "facts"; these are the inchoate emotional-basket-case parrotings of the droppings of demagogue talk radio. Nothing to do with political science.

Which ideology never saw a tax it did not like? -- Absurd. No ideology has "likes". That's the emotional basket case talking. AFAIK there is no political ideology of any kind that taxes for the sake of taxing. Does not apply. Taxing for actual purposes is done by everybody.

Which ideology created political correctness? -- Ludicrous. PC is not a political force at all; it's a social one. It's created by hoi polloi.

Which ideology is steeped in large central planning type government? -- Both the left and the right "grow" government; the left for social programs, safety nets and the welfare state; the right for military (euphemistically, "defense") spending and the like. But Liberalism isn't interested in growing government. That which governs least governs best.

Which ideology supports increasing government employment? -- same as above.

Which ideology objects to market based capitalism? -- both the left and the right put dampers on that, the left by encouraging decentralized systems that favour workers, the right by encouraging centralized entities that favour monopolies and oligarchies, but Liberalism is what makes capitalism possible. It's the throwing off of the yoke of aristocracy.

Which ideology is inexorably tied to race or status? -- that's probably the right, which is based on hierarchy and merit -- as opposed to the Liberal maxim that "all men are created equal". Both Liberalism and Leftism lean to egalitarian outlooks, the difference being that Liberalism does so by simply letting it be and Leftism tends to make it happen artificially (e.g. affirmative action).

You haven't really thought this through, it would seem.

(/offtopic)

Yes. Facts. Your side owns all of it.

Jury verdicts mean nothing to these people, even when THEY had the power and the resources of the State behind them

Absolutely sad to be them

 

[Pogo]

No, not "facts"; these are the inchoate emotional-basket-case parrotings of the droppings of demagogue talk radio. Nothing to do with political science.

Which ideology never saw a tax it did not like? -- Absurd. No ideology has "likes". That's the emotional basket case talking. AFAIK there is no political ideology of any kind that taxes for the sake of taxing. Does not apply. Taxing for actual purposes is done by everybody.

Which ideology created political correctness? -- Ludicrous. PC is not a political force at all; it's a social one. It's created by hoi polloi.

Which ideology is steeped in large central planning type government? -- Both the left and the right "grow" government; the left for social programs, safety nets and the welfare state; the right for military (euphemistically, "defense") spending and the like. But Liberalism isn't interested in growing government. That which governs least governs best.

Which ideology supports increasing government employment? -- same as above.

Which ideology objects to market based capitalism? -- both the left and the right put dampers on that, the left by encouraging decentralized systems that favour workers, the right by encouraging centralized entities that favour monopolies and oligarchies, but Liberalism is what makes capitalism possible. It's the throwing off of the yoke of aristocracy.

Which ideology is inexorably tied to race or status? -- that's probably the right, which is based on hierarchy and merit -- as opposed to the Liberal maxim that "all men are created equal". Both Liberalism and Leftism lean to egalitarian outlooks, the difference being that Liberalism does so by simply letting it be and Leftism tends to make it happen artificially (e.g. affirmative action).

You haven't really thought this through, it would seem.

(/offtopic)

Yes. Facts. Your side owns all of it.

My "side"??

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[Gadawg73]

The entire defense in the Zimmerman trial are liberals. Troubling that the very folks that have been in the trenches fighting for the rights of the accused against the vast resources and power of the state were fucked in the ass by the media and the left.
But that is how it always goes with the far left. They will sacrifice all and everyone involved and watch people that the state has little to no evidence on go to prison for life if that furthers their political ideology that white people are racists against black folks, they stalk and kill innocent 6th grade children, they do not stand down when given police orders and commands and that DNA evidence always conclusively points to the identity of someone being guilty of a crime.
All of that liberal media stated, the sheep believed it and ran with it and all of it was proven false at trial.

 

[skookerasbil]

dang s0n......what kind of shit you smoking? I want some dude.......



Fastest lesson you can take to learn the fuckedupedness of liberal thinking >>>>


The Difference Between Liberal and Conservative - YouTube

Thanks. That was a 4½ minute lesson on the fuckedupedness of your own thinking, because Sowell's not talking about Liberalism there -- I don't care what the YouTube uploader calls it. He's talking about a combination of Leftism, the inefficiency of goverment/institutional bureaucracy, and general philosophies. That's why he refers to "the left" -- not to "the liberals". Not to mention it's a heavily edited video from Fox Noise

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two. Doesn't look like Fred Barnes has a clue either. But then, it is Fox Noise, which is to intellectual discourse as puddle is to Pacific Ocean.

(/offtopic)

 

[S.J.]

 

[Pogo]

No, not "facts"; these are the inchoate emotional-basket-case parrotings of the droppings of demagogue talk radio. Nothing to do with political science.

Which ideology never saw a tax it did not like? -- Absurd. No ideology has "likes". That's the emotional basket case talking. AFAIK there is no political ideology of any kind that taxes for the sake of taxing. Does not apply. Taxing for actual purposes is done by everybody.

Which ideology created political correctness? -- Ludicrous. PC is not a political force at all; it's a social one. It's created by hoi polloi.

Which ideology is steeped in large central planning type government? -- Both the left and the right "grow" government; the left for social programs, safety nets and the welfare state; the right for military (euphemistically, "defense") spending and the like. But Liberalism isn't interested in growing government. That which governs least governs best.

Which ideology supports increasing government employment? -- same as above.

Which ideology objects to market based capitalism? -- both the left and the right put dampers on that, the left by encouraging decentralized systems that favour workers, the right by encouraging centralized entities that favour monopolies and oligarchies, but Liberalism is what makes capitalism possible. It's the throwing off of the yoke of aristocracy.

Which ideology is inexorably tied to race or status? -- that's probably the right, which is based on hierarchy and merit -- as opposed to the Liberal maxim that "all men are created equal". Both Liberalism and Leftism lean to egalitarian outlooks, the difference being that Liberalism does so by simply letting it be and Leftism tends to make it happen artificially (e.g. affirmative action).

You haven't really thought this through, it would seem.

(/offtopic)

Yes. Facts. Your side owns all of it.

Jury verdicts mean nothing to these people, even when THEY had the power and the resources of the State behind them

Absolutely sad to be them

Don't know if you're reading the Icelandic translation of this board or what, but nothing in that string of posts has anything whatsoever to do with "jury verdicts".

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes. Facts. Your side owns all of it.

My "side"??

Ignorance is bliss...

Yes.. YOUR side/...Libs. Lefties..Whatever.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

dang s0n......what kind of shit you smoking? I want some dude.......



Fastest lesson you can take to learn the fuckedupedness of liberal thinking >>>>


The Difference Between Liberal and Conservative - YouTube

Thanks. That was a 4½ minute lesson on the fuckedupedness of your own thinking, because Sowell's not talking about Liberalism there -- I don't care what the YouTube uploader calls it. He's talking about a combination of Leftism, the inefficiency of goverment/institutional bureaucracy, and general philosophies. That's why he refers to "the left" -- not to "the liberals". Not to mention it's a heavily edited video from Fox Noise

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two. Doesn't look like Fred Barnes has a clue either. But then, it is Fox Noise, which is to intellectual discourse as puddle is to Pacific Ocean.

(/offtopic)

Left = liberals, right = conservatives.

 

[bodecea]

and give her a job cleaning shitters at MacDonalds??

Rachel Jeantel On Trayvon Martin Friendship: ?He Never Judged Me? « CBS Miami

Who?

 

[Pogo]

Thanks. That was a 4½ minute lesson on the fuckedupedness of your own thinking, because Sowell's not talking about Liberalism there -- I don't care what the YouTube uploader calls it. He's talking about a combination of Leftism, the inefficiency of goverment/institutional bureaucracy, and general philosophies. That's why he refers to "the left" -- not to "the liberals". Not to mention it's a heavily edited video from Fox Noise

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two. Doesn't look like Fred Barnes has a clue either. But then, it is Fox Noise, which is to intellectual discourse as puddle is to Pacific Ocean.

(/offtopic)

Left = liberals, right = conservatives.

Ah, if only life were that simple we could all live in that comic book.

Oh well -- Lonestar logic

 

[Gadawg73]

Back in the 80's and 90's the New York City version was called "wilding'...Same MO..Innocent people, mostly Caucasian, more times than not, women, were selected because they appeared they could not fight back. One woman was repeatedly hit in the head with a cobblestone, stripped of her clothing and sexually assaulted in BOTH entries.
The excuse used by these fucking monsters: "We was just wildin' "...

It use to be that people worked or had good opportunities once upon a time, and they didn't have time for all this evil mess to go on, but because of the way things have gone in America, well all that concept for Americans has went south or either the south has come over here or it has went over the waters to China in so that the Americans can't see what their own government/business sector has been up to with modern day slavery over there. I guess it is what it is, and it would take a miracle to change it back to what we once new had worked.

So you excuse or even support a justification of this? The victimizing of innocent people who have ZERO involvement in the issues you present?
You are a barbarian.

Who and where are these victims you speak of and how are they any more innocent than the average Joe?
Or are you just manufacturing an issue like media does?

 

[Katzndogz]

Back in the 80's and 90's the New York City version was called "wilding'...Same MO..Innocent people, mostly Caucasian, more times than not, women, were selected because they appeared they could not fight back. One woman was repeatedly hit in the head with a cobblestone, stripped of her clothing and sexually assaulted in BOTH entries.
The excuse used by these fucking monsters: "We was just wildin' "...

It use to be that people worked or had good opportunities once upon a time, and they didn't have time for all this evil mess to go on, but because of the way things have gone in America, well all that concept for Americans has went south or either the south has come over here or it has went over the waters to China in so that the Americans can't see what their own government/business sector has been up to with modern day slavery over there. I guess it is what it is, and it would take a miracle to change it back to what we once new had worked.

So you excuse or even support a justification of this? The victimizing of innocent people who have ZERO involvement in the issues you present?
You are a barbarian.

Don't assume that this was offered as justification for the crime. It might be that the incident offered another opportunity to voice a democrat talking point.

 

[eflatminor]

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two.

Okay, as one of the few that is neither a modern liberal nor a conservative, I suppose I'm as good a person as any to ask the question, why don't you explain the difference for us?

Can I assume when you refer to "Liberalism", you mean in the modern sense and not Classical Liberalism?

Similarly, when you state "Liberalism founded this country", are you talking about modern Liberalism or Classical Liberals, more akin to what we call libertarians today?

This may all be semantic nonsense, but for the moment, I'm open to hearing the difference between (modern) Liberalism and Leftism. Any citations or links would be appreciated.

 

[Pogo]

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two.

Okay, as one of the few that is neither a modern liberal nor a conservative, I suppose I'm as good a person as any to ask the question, why don't you explain the difference for us?

Can I assume when you refer to "Liberalism", you mean in the modern sense and not Classical Liberalism?

Similarly, when you state "Liberalism founded this country", are you talking about modern Liberalism or Classical Liberals, more akin to what we call libertarians today?

This may all be semantic nonsense, but for the moment, I'm open to hearing the difference between (modern) Liberalism and Leftism. Any citations or links would be appreciated.

I know we're on a tangent here but IMO a far more worthy one than the OP...

I guess first thing, I'm not sure why posters here seem to insist on redefining Liberalism as "classical" Liberalism. I suspect it's a way of driving a wedge into the word so it can then be demonized. And that's kinda weird.

When I say "Liberalism founded this country" I refer to the philosophy, new and revolutionary at the time, that sees the common populace as the driver of the vehicle, as opposed to the hierarchical structure of church/state/aristocracy that had held sway before that point in history. That concept of Liberalism comes under fire from both the left and the right for their own purposes of power-hungriness.

To revert to a previous example: the idea of egalitarianism, the "all men are created equal" plank of the platform and vital artery of our Constitution, is in every sense a Liberal concept. The idea of Affirmative Action, where the State actually takes action to make that happen --rather than letting it happen and refraining from influencing it, that is a Leftist concept. That's what I mean by the difference between them. Liberal leaves it to grow by itself; Leftist takes action to make it happen. So does Right, with its obsession with gay marriage and the like.

As far as I remember the term "Liberal" first began to be demonized in the presidential election of 1988 when it became a staple of the Bush stump speech against Dukakis. H.W. would use the term as if it were an insult. It was a deliberate dumbing-down that ignored the entire history of our nation for the sake of a cheap sound bite. Had Bush and his Lee Atwater guru chosen an honest path they might have instead insisted "Dukakis is no Liberal" as a strategy. But noooo...

I might have missed some rhetorical dynamic before that time but that's when I noticed it.

And it seems to be (this is a theory) part of some grand scheme to redefine "Liberal" -- the concept we're born on -- as a political "side", deliberately conflated with a concoction of Leftist Authoritarians so that that demonized group can then be Eliminated, which then turns everything over to the Rightist Authoritarians (the fascists), who are the entity driving the dumb-down for that purpose.

That's what it looks like to this observer anyway.

(/offtopic)

 

[beagle9]

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two.

Okay, as one of the few that is neither a modern liberal nor a conservative, I suppose I'm as good a person as any to ask the question, why don't you explain the difference for us?

Can I assume when you refer to "Liberalism", you mean in the modern sense and not Classical Liberalism?

Similarly, when you state "Liberalism founded this country", are you talking about modern Liberalism or Classical Liberals, more akin to what we call libertarians today?

This may all be semantic nonsense, but for the moment, I'm open to hearing the difference between (modern) Liberalism and Leftism. Any citations or links would be appreciated.

I know we're on a tangent here but IMO a far more worthy one than the OP...

I guess first thing, I'm not sure why posters here seem to insist on redefining Liberalism as "classical" Liberalism. I suspect it's a way of driving a wedge into the word so it can then be demonized. And that's kinda weird.

When I say "Liberalism founded this country" I refer to the philosophy, new and revolutionary at the time, that sees the common populace as the driver of the vehicle, as opposed to the hierarchical structure of church/state/aristocracy that had held sway before that point in history. That concept of Liberalism comes under fire from both the left and the right for their own purposes of power-hungriness.

To revert to a previous example: the idea of egalitarianism, the "all men are created equal" plank of the platform and vital artery of our Constitution, is in every sense a Liberal concept. The idea of Affirmative Action, where the State actually takes action to make that happen --rather than letting it happen and refraining from influencing it, that is a Leftist concept. That's what I mean by the difference between them. Liberal leaves it to grow by itself; Leftist takes action to make it happen. So does Right, with its obsession with gay marriage and the like.

As far as I remember the term "Liberal" first began to be demonized in the presidential election of 1988 when it became a staple of the Bush stump speech against Dukakis. H.W. would use the term as if it were an insult. It was a deliberate dumbing-down that ignored the entire history of our nation for the sake of a cheap sound bite. Had Bush and his Lee Atwater guru chosen an honest path they might have instead insisted "Dukakis is no Liberal" as a strategy. But noooo...

I might have missed some rhetorical dynamic before that time but that's when I noticed it.

And it seems to be (this is a theory) part of some grand scheme to redefine "Liberal" -- the concept we're born on -- as a political "side", deliberately conflated with a concoction of Leftist Authoritarians so that that demonized group can then be Eliminated, which then turns everything over to the Rightist Authoritarians (the fascists), who are the entity driving the dumb-down for that purpose.

That's what it looks like to this observer anyway.

(/offtopic)

Or is it that liberals themselves have redefined the term as found upon their actions in which we all are seeing and have an understanding of them now? You blame others for mischaracterizing, but are they mischaracterizing or are they spot on in what they see as the new liberalism in this nation, and so do they see this because of what it clings to, and therefore what it has become because of what it clings to ? YES!

There is a uniting of specific groups in this nation, and their goal is to destroy the other group or groups in this nations power structure, thus leaving them the attackers as the ultimate power formed in a power vacuum in which they hope to create in all of this.

 

[eflatminor]

Some of y'all have no idea of the difference between Liberalism and Leftism, but that doesn't slow you down from conflating the two.

Okay, as one of the few that is neither a modern liberal nor a conservative, I suppose I'm as good a person as any to ask the question, why don't you explain the difference for us?

Can I assume when you refer to "Liberalism", you mean in the modern sense and not Classical Liberalism?

Similarly, when you state "Liberalism founded this country", are you talking about modern Liberalism or Classical Liberals, more akin to what we call libertarians today?

This may all be semantic nonsense, but for the moment, I'm open to hearing the difference between (modern) Liberalism and Leftism. Any citations or links would be appreciated.

I know we're on a tangent here but IMO a far more worthy one than the OP...

I guess first thing, I'm not sure why posters here seem to insist on redefining Liberalism as "classical" Liberalism. I suspect it's a way of driving a wedge into the word so it can then be demonized. And that's kinda weird.

When I say "Liberalism founded this country" I refer to the philosophy, new and revolutionary at the time, that sees the common populace as the driver of the vehicle, as opposed to the hierarchical structure of church/state/aristocracy that had held sway before that point in history. That concept of Liberalism comes under fire from both the left and the right for their own purposes of power-hungriness.

To revert to a previous example: the idea of egalitarianism, the "all men are created equal" plank of the platform and vital artery of our Constitution, is in every sense a Liberal concept. The idea of Affirmative Action, where the State actually takes action to make that happen --rather than letting it happen and refraining from influencing it, that is a Leftist concept. That's what I mean by the difference between them. Liberal leaves it to grow by itself; Leftist takes action to make it happen. So does Right, with its obsession with gay marriage and the like.

As far as I remember the term "Liberal" first began to be demonized in the presidential election of 1988 when it became a staple of the Bush stump speech against Dukakis. H.W. would use the term as if it were an insult. It was a deliberate dumbing-down that ignored the entire history of our nation for the sake of a cheap sound bite. Had Bush and his Lee Atwater guru chosen an honest path they might have instead insisted "Dukakis is no Liberal" as a strategy. But noooo...

I might have missed some rhetorical dynamic before that time but that's when I noticed it.

And it seems to be (this is a theory) part of some grand scheme to redefine "Liberal" -- the concept we're born on -- as a political "side", deliberately conflated with a concoction of Leftist Authoritarians so that that demonized group can then be Eliminated, which then turns everything over to the Rightist Authoritarians (the fascists), who are the entity driving the dumb-down for that purpose.

That's what it looks like to this observer anyway.

(/offtopic)

Sounds like you're saying that Liberalism is the same thing as what some here would call Classical Liberalism and others would call libertarianism. Further, it sounds like you're saying Leftism is what others might call 'Modern Liberalism', but you believe they should never have obfuscated the term 'liberal' and should rightly call them Leftists. Lastly, you suggest that both modern conservatives and leftists are big government meddlers and neither are worthy of the term Liberal.

Did I get that right?

 

[Pogo]

Okay, as one of the few that is neither a modern liberal nor a conservative, I suppose I'm as good a person as any to ask the question, why don't you explain the difference for us?

Can I assume when you refer to "Liberalism", you mean in the modern sense and not Classical Liberalism?

Similarly, when you state "Liberalism founded this country", are you talking about modern Liberalism or Classical Liberals, more akin to what we call libertarians today?

This may all be semantic nonsense, but for the moment, I'm open to hearing the difference between (modern) Liberalism and Leftism. Any citations or links would be appreciated.

I know we're on a tangent here but IMO a far more worthy one than the OP...

I guess first thing, I'm not sure why posters here seem to insist on redefining Liberalism as "classical" Liberalism. I suspect it's a way of driving a wedge into the word so it can then be demonized. And that's kinda weird.

When I say "Liberalism founded this country" I refer to the philosophy, new and revolutionary at the time, that sees the common populace as the driver of the vehicle, as opposed to the hierarchical structure of church/state/aristocracy that had held sway before that point in history. That concept of Liberalism comes under fire from both the left and the right for their own purposes of power-hungriness.

To revert to a previous example: the idea of egalitarianism, the "all men are created equal" plank of the platform and vital artery of our Constitution, is in every sense a Liberal concept. The idea of Affirmative Action, where the State actually takes action to make that happen --rather than letting it happen and refraining from influencing it, that is a Leftist concept. That's what I mean by the difference between them. Liberal leaves it to grow by itself; Leftist takes action to make it happen. So does Right, with its obsession with gay marriage and the like.

As far as I remember the term "Liberal" first began to be demonized in the presidential election of 1988 when it became a staple of the Bush stump speech against Dukakis. H.W. would use the term as if it were an insult. It was a deliberate dumbing-down that ignored the entire history of our nation for the sake of a cheap sound bite. Had Bush and his Lee Atwater guru chosen an honest path they might have instead insisted "Dukakis is no Liberal" as a strategy. But noooo...

I might have missed some rhetorical dynamic before that time but that's when I noticed it.

And it seems to be (this is a theory) part of some grand scheme to redefine "Liberal" -- the concept we're born on -- as a political "side", deliberately conflated with a concoction of Leftist Authoritarians so that that demonized group can then be Eliminated, which then turns everything over to the Rightist Authoritarians (the fascists), who are the entity driving the dumb-down for that purpose.

That's what it looks like to this observer anyway.

(/offtopic)

Sounds like you're saying that Liberalism is the same thing as what some here would call Classical Liberalism and others would call libertarianism. Further, it sounds like you're saying Leftism is what others might call 'Modern Liberalism', but you believe they should never have obfuscated the term 'liberal' and should rightly call them Leftists. Lastly, you suggest that both modern conservatives and leftists are big government meddlers and neither are worthy of the term Liberal.

Did I get that right?

Basically, yes. Although every one of those labels would have to be spelled out as to exactly who we mean. And it shouldn't have to be that way, but that's what happens when we start morphing terms into their own opposites. And when we decide on a whim that, hey, from this moment the term "apple" is going to mean "kumquat".

Linguistically I'm an arch-conservative. I'm prolly the only guy left who still spells Hallowe'en with an apostrophe. I just don't think we get to morph definitions like that. And I'm aware that when somebody starts changing definitions, there's some agenda behind it.

Anyway, what do you think of all that? Am I accurate with 1988, or did that start sometime earlier?

 

[eflatminor]

Anyway, what do you think of all that? Am I accurate with 1988, or did that start sometime earlier?

I think...but I'm not exactly sure...that the term 'liberal' was obfuscated by Leftists in the 1960s. Prior to that, Liberalism was what many call libertarianism today, as was evident in the seminal book by Mises, "Liberalism, The Classical Tradition".

Hey, maybe that's were the term 'Classical Liberal' came from? Not sure.

You may be correct about conservatives using the term liberal in a derogatory sense beginning in 1988. However, Leftists called themselves that beforehand.