Gas went from 3.61 to 3.99 withing minutes.

[Vast LWC]

There does not have to be an emergency for the executive order to be implemented

Perhaps for the planning and preparedness stages to be implemented, but for action to be taken concerning non-governmental planning agencies, there definitely would be.

It's a blueprint that details plans for National Defense in case of invasion, or national emergency, and creates ways in which to gather resources in order to be prepared for such an emergency.

Really not much different to similar documents created by previous administrations.

Leave it to right-wingers to pretend it's some sort of black helicopter conspiracy plot to take over the US...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There does not have to be an emergency for the executive order to be implemented

Perhaps for the planning and preparedness stages to be implemented, but for action to be taken concerning non-governmental planning agencies, there definitely would be.

It's a blueprint that details plans for National Defense in case of invasion, or national emergency, and creates ways in which to gather resources in order to be prepared for such an emergency.

Really not much different to similar documents created by previous administrations.

Leave it to right-wingers to pretend it's some sort of black helicopter conspiracy plot to take over the US...

Obama’s order gives the executive branch of our government, with all its agencies and secretaries, powers to commandeer most major areas of the private sector for the nebulously defined purposes of “national defense,” even during peacetime. This includes power over all forms of energy, energy use, control and distribution; all water sources in the United States; all food sources, which includes production facilities, factories, farms and farm equipment; health resources, which includes all aspects of the health care industry from drugs to diagnostic equipment to medical facilities; and civil transportation, which includes control over all movement of people and forms of transportation in the United States, and all storage and repair facilities. obama’s order revokes President Clinton’s order in its entirety, and to add there doesn't have to be a declared emergency for the executive order to be implemented.

 

[gallantwarrior]

If it's dealing with obama you will intentionally miss anything unconstitutional. With that executive order there does not have to be a national emergency for to be implemented

Yes, in fact there does.

The Executive Order in question is specifically a plan of action in case there is a national emergency.

If you look at the bottom of the document, it does in fact list the previous executive orders that it takes the place of, that did the same thing.

There does not have to be an emergency for the executive order to be implemented

The question is, who decides what constitutes a "national emergency"? If the 2012 elections fail to result in certain outcomes, will that constitute a "national emergency"? If gas prices continue to skyrocket, will that be the "national emergency" that justifies opening the NPR to the government raiders, thereby depleting a stock of fuel that is intended for REAL emergencies?

 

[gallantwarrior]

There does not have to be an emergency for the executive order to be implemented

Perhaps for the planning and preparedness stages to be implemented, but for action to be taken concerning non-governmental planning agencies, there definitely would be.

It's a blueprint that details plans for National Defense in case of invasion, or national emergency, and creates ways in which to gather resources in order to be prepared for such an emergency.

Really not much different to similar documents created by previous administrations.

Leave it to right-wingers to pretend it's some sort of black helicopter conspiracy plot to take over the US...

Leave it to left-wingers to ignore possible implications.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yes, in fact there does.

The Executive Order in question is specifically a plan of action in case there is a national emergency.

If you look at the bottom of the document, it does in fact list the previous executive orders that it takes the place of, that did the same thing.

There does not have to be an emergency for the executive order to be implemented

The question is, who decides what constitutes a "national emergency"? If the 2012 elections fail to result in certain outcomes, will that constitute a "national emergency"? If gas prices continue to skyrocket, will that be the "national emergency" that justifies opening the NPR to the government raiders, thereby depleting a stock of fuel that is intended for REAL emergencies?

I noticed one thing thats a tell all about obama from that executive order.

(d) The Secretary of Commerce, in cooperation with the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and other agencies, shall:

(2) perform industry analyses to assess capabilities of the industrial base to support the national defense, and develop policy recommendations to improve the international competitiveness of specific domestic industries and their abilities to meet national defense program needs.

What does the government have to offer in the sense of competitiveness? This is obama's nationalization of America's industry.

 

[Polk]

Relative to the Euro? About the same as it was in 2008.
Relative to the pound? It's around a ten year high.

Monthly Exchange Rate Average (American Dollar, Euro) 2008 - x-rates
March 2008 1.55202 USD

March 2012 1.31581 USD
2012

Any questions?

Polk the dollars value is much lower now than was then. isn't that right Polk?

No, it's not. The value of the dollar, relative to the Euro, is the same today as it was in late 2008. The dollar's value as risen relative to the Euro over the past year. The dollar has risen a significant amount against the Pound as well (a pound will by 25% fewer dollars than it would buy in 2008).

 

[Vast LWC]

I noticed one thing thats a tell all about obama from that executive order.

(d) The Secretary of Commerce, in cooperation with the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and other agencies, shall:

(2) perform industry analyses to assess capabilities of the industrial base to support the national defense, and develop policy recommendations to improve the international competitiveness of specific domestic industries and their abilities to meet national defense program needs.

What does the government have to offer in the sense of competitiveness? This is obama's nationalization of America's industry.

"Perform an analysis", and "develop recommendations".

Not seeing the evil government takeover part of that.

Especially not seeing the words "seize", "direct" or "commandeer".

Not really seeing where any legal authority is given to any of the planners involved to nationalize anything...

 

[Vast LWC]

The question is, who decides what constitutes a "national emergency"? If the 2012 elections fail to result in certain outcomes, will that constitute a "national emergency"? If gas prices continue to skyrocket, will that be the "national emergency" that justifies opening the NPR to the government raiders, thereby depleting a stock of fuel that is intended for REAL emergencies?

If there were no actual emergency, Congress could simply block it, or the Supreme Court.

There is nothing in this order that gives the President the ability to trump either body...

 

[Vast LWC]

Leave it to left-wingers to ignore possible implications.

Well, that's not quite true...

If this document had been drawn up under a Republican administration, there would be plenty of black-helicopter left-wing conspiracy theorists crawling out of the woodwork.

So, I guess I have to retract the portion of my statement that referred to right-wingers only.

 

[Polk]

Seizing control of production in a specific industry has been attempted before, and the courts dropped the hammer on it. Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer (1952), which requires a seizure either

1. come from an direct authority in Article II
2. directly authorized by an act of Congress

 

[007]

Its Boooooshes fault.

Its Boooooshes fault.

That is so 2009.

 

[Vast LWC]

Seizing control of production in a specific industry has been attempted before, and the courts dropped the hammer on it. Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer (1952), which requires a seizure either

1. come from an direct authority in Article II
2. directly authorized by an act of Congress

Exactly. Which is why this whole conspiracy surrounding said Executive Order thing is just horsehockey.

This order doesn't provide the President or his staff with any more constitutional authority than he already had, and as far as I can see, it doesn't really attempt to.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Obviously, it's because of the Big Oil guys in the White House.

 

[Vast LWC]

Wasn't his fault either.

Well, it was somewhat during the Iraq war, but certainly not by 2007-2008.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Wasn't his fault either.

Of course not - but the Democrats certainly did all they could to convince people that it was.

Do you suppose they lied, or were they just impossibly ignorant?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I noticed one thing thats a tell all about obama from that executive order.

(d) The Secretary of Commerce, in cooperation with the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and other agencies, shall:

(2) perform industry analyses to assess capabilities of the industrial base to support the national defense, and develop policy recommendations to improve the international competitiveness of specific domestic industries and their abilities to meet national defense program needs.

What does the government have to offer in the sense of competitiveness? This is obama's nationalization of America's industry.

"Perform an analysis", and "develop recommendations".

Not seeing the evil government takeover part of that.

Especially not seeing the words "seize", "direct" or "commandeer".

Not really seeing where any legal authority is given to any of the planners involved to nationalize anything...

OH you think that it would just be an advisory part of the government? I guess you need to read the rest of that bullshit obama signed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Wasn't his fault either.

Well, it was somewhat during the Iraq war, but certainly not by 2007-2008.

2012 is all obama's fault devaluing the dollar the way he has will affect the price at the pump.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Monthly Exchange Rate Average (American Dollar, Euro) 2008 - x-rates
March 2008 1.55202 USD

March 2012 1.31581 USD
2012

Any questions?

Polk the dollars value is much lower now than was then. isn't that right Polk?

No, it's not. The value of the dollar, relative to the Euro, is the same today as it was in late 2008. The dollar's value as risen relative to the Euro over the past year. The dollar has risen a significant amount against the Pound as well (a pound will by 25% fewer dollars than it would buy in 2008).

Which is the lower number?
March 2008 1.55202 USD

March 2012 1.31581 USD
2012

 

[Polk]

Polk the dollars value is much lower now than was then. isn't that right Polk?

No, it's not. The value of the dollar, relative to the Euro, is the same today as it was in late 2008. The dollar's value as risen relative to the Euro over the past year. The dollar has risen a significant amount against the Pound as well (a pound will by 25% fewer dollars than it would buy in 2008).

Which is the lower number?
March 2008 1.55202 USD

March 2012 1.31581 USD
2012

Key word: "late". The value is from March 2008 is higher than March 2012. You know what number is even higher? The value from March 2002.

All of that is beside the point though. The dollar is as strong against the Euro as it was when Obama took office, and is stronger against the pound.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Seizing control of production in a specific industry has been attempted before, and the courts dropped the hammer on it. Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer (1952), which requires a seizure either

1. come from an direct authority in Article II
2. directly authorized by an act of Congress

You actually believe that? Ever heard of imminent domain and did you hear about what the supreme court ruled while Bush was president on the subject? It ruled that a corporation could use imminent domain to take the property of a citizen to encourage private sector development