Fresh decapitations – Acapulco, Tourist Welcome!

[Xchel]

actually it always has been permitted. No it is not a loyalty to two countries..it is simply the right to be in two countries ...

Based on the U.S. Department of State regulation on dual citizenship (7 FAM 1162), the Supreme Court of the United States has stated that dual citizenship is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces the other," (Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717) (1952). In Schneider v. Rusk 377 U.S. 163 (1964), the US Supreme Court ruled that a naturalized U.S. citizen has the right to return to his native country and to resume his former citizenship, and also to remain a U.S. citizen even if he never returns to the United States.
The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) neither defines dual citizenship nor takes a position for it or against it. There has been no prohibition against dual citizenship, but some provisions of the INA and earlier U.S. nationality laws were designed to reduce situations in which dual citizenship exists. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship.[24]

United States nationality law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Katzndogz]

I'd need more of a citation than Wikipedia.

That said. You have the centricness of a hispanic. Let's look at it from a different perspective.

I am a Chinese American born in the USA but gaining Chinese citizenship through my parents who are dual citizens having been naturalized American citizens. I indentify with being Chinese and consider myself a patriotic Chinese person. It is my intention and plan to use my birthright American citizenship to gain position to better advance Chinese interests. I may work in an American industry. I may run for American political office! As a born American citizen, I might run for president one day to have greater power to help my homeland. See, I love what I consider my homeland. Being an American citizen is just a tool I can use to advance my homeland's interests.

There is nothing magical about getting American citizenship. It does not automatically confer love of country and patriotism. Anwar Al Awlaki was born in New Mexico and a dual citizen. Ramsay Yousef was a naturalized American citizen and kept his prior citizenship. There is no way to ensure that loyalty to the US is 100%. At best we can minimize the problems caused by requiring our citizens to renounce foreign princes exactly as the Oath of citizenship provides.

The Oath of Citizenship

Oath

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

 

[editec]

Duel citizenship is a bad idea.

The oath above says it rather well.

If you want to be an American citizen, you ought not be allowed citizenship elsewhere.

Obviously kids under 18 get a pass on that, but adults ought not.

 

[Katzndogz]

I have never met a dual citizen that felt any kind of loyalty or even care for Americans. Because of the geophysical situation, no one is worse than hispanics who are ALL ABOUT advancing their fellow citizens' interests. By fellow citizens, I absolutely do not mean Americans. They certainly do run for political office and do so for the purpose of helping what they consider to be their countrymen and women. That is how Maywood got to be the way it is and how Bell got to be the way it is. The idea that "this isn't really my country" is pervasive.

 

[Angelhair]

I have never met a dual citizen that felt any kind of loyalty or even care for Americans. Because of the geophysical situation, no one is worse than hispanics who are ALL ABOUT advancing their fellow citizens' interests. By fellow citizens, I absolutely do not mean Americans. They certainly do run for political office and do so for the purpose of helping what they consider to be their countrymen and women. That is how Maywood got to be the way it is and how Bell got to be the way it is. The idea that "this isn't really my country" is pervasive.

Thus the reason why this country is going to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Xchel]

You haven't? let me introduce you to my kid then...a dual citizen..who served in Afghanistan..interesting how someone who never lifted a finger to defend the country can determine that someone who risked his life is not loyal to the US.

get back to me about that loyalty stuff when you have your own like that.

 

[Katzndogz]

I have no idea why your kid is in Afghanistan. Or why your kid joined the service to begin with. There are plenty of reasons why people join the military other than loyalty and patriotism. Some of them want the benefits. Gang bangers join the military for training, that they then come back and use to train the homies.

My son spent 8 years in the military. His Dad spent 35 years in the military. If being an American citizen was that important why hasn't your kid renounced his other citizenship? Maybe there is just a small problem with making a committment. Merely being in the military is unpersuasive. After all Nidal Hassan was in the military and rose to the rank of Major. Who would even QUESTION the loyalty and patriotism of that American Citizen?

Fact is, all of the evidence (especially recently) is that we are putting American Citizenship in CrackerJack Boxes. We hold it cheaply. We don't demand UNDIVIDED loyalty. George Washington had a rule, "Put None But Americans On Watch". I assume he meant no foreigners, even though foreigners were serving in the Continental Army. Whether the Hessians and French were loyal patriots wasn't even on the radar. They too risked their lives. Their loyalties were divided, that was good enough to make them inherently untrustworthy.

 

[Xchel]

If a person goes to Afghanistan and has the balls to do it then they most certainly are entitled to citizenship. My kid can't renounce any citizenship nor is he required to..in fact he has never ever been to Mexico. Interesting how you judge others when you have NEVER had the balls to serve yourself.

 

[Katzndogz]

You have absolutely NO idea what I've done. So don't project what YOU have done on me.

Your son has dual citizenship. His loyalty is divided. He has TWO homelands. If he was born here, how did he come to have citizenship of another country? Could it be that caring parents filed those citizenship papers for him? If a person goes to Afghanistan and has the balls to do it, he or she should be CONSIDERED for citizenship. Which would require renouncing all loyalties and oaths to every other foreign country.

Theodore Roosevelt had this to say:

Roosevelt could hardly stand it. “The United States,” he thundered, “cannot with self-respect permit its organic and fundamental law”—here he referred to the jus soli rules enshrined in our Constitution—“to be overridden by the laws of a foreign country.” Dual nationality, he added for good measure, “is a self-evident absurdity.” The bureaucratic attitudes reflected in the letter “seem like the phantasmagoria of an unpleasant dream.”

It is necessary today, more than ever to return to those principles.

 

[Angelhair]

You haven't? let me introduce you to my kid then...a dual citizen..who served in Afghanistan..interesting how someone who never lifted a finger to defend the country can determine that someone who risked his life is not loyal to the US.

get back to me about that loyalty stuff when you have your own like that.

Thank your son for his service to this great country. And man God Bless him and keep him safe - sincerely meant.

 

[Xchel]

his loyalty is not divided it was obtained at birth he is loyal to the only country he knows...hell he can't even speak Spanish properly...and you think somehow he is loyal to a country he never visited? Get real. How did he come by it? Automatically at birth...because his father was Mexican.

 

[Katzndogz]

I understand that you are proud of your military son. Anyone would be. I submit though, that you would be equally proud if he had chosen to serve in the military of his "other" country. You are proud of your son and his service as your son. I don't detect any particular pride in the nation.

Were it to come to it, and the tour of duty was not in Afghanistan but Arizona and the order to shoot whoever was crossing the southern border would it make a difference?

 

[Angelhair]

Correction: and MAY God Bless Him.....

 

[Katzndogz]

By the way, any news of your cousin?

 

[Xchel]

By the way, any news of your cousin?

No...none at all. Here is the link...we are praying, but he has been gone since Monday..so our hope is fading.

Agentes con chapa de la DNIC se llevaron comerciante desaparecido - LaTribuna.hn


You are wrong though...I would not have wanted him to serve in the Mexican army...I am the one that encouraged him his entire life to join the US Army...so you would be wrong in saying that I have no particular pride in the US...my family history goes back way long before there was a USA in the Americas.

 

[Katzndogz]

By the way, any news of your cousin?

No...none at all. Here is the link...we are praying, but he has been gone since Monday..so our hope is fading.

Agentes con chapa de la DNIC se llevaron comerciante desaparecido - LaTribuna.hn


You are wrong though...I would not have wanted him to serve in the Mexican army...I am the one that encouraged him his entire life to join the US Army...so you would be wrong in saying that I have no particular pride in the US...my family history goes back way long before there was a USA in the Americas.

One one side, I am half Iroquois Native. My mother's ancestors came here in 1621. The men in my family have fought in every war that had US involvement. On both sides of the Civil War. My grandfather sufferered from wounds he got from mustard gas in WWI until the day he died. My father stormed Normandie Beach. My husband fought in Viet Nam. My son operated strike computers.

I am not disputing your pride in the US. After all, we see that polygamous men have pride in all their wives too. There is little doubt in my mind and you never dispelled that, you have a lot of pride in Honduras as well, enough to make sure that your son carried another citizenship.

I remember (yes I really do remember it) when immigants, refugees, came here after WWII. How desperately they wanted to be Americans. No one would DARE call them Polish, Romanian, Russian, Italian, wherever they came from. They spoke only English, sometimes broken English, but insisted that their children be only Americans speaking only American English. In that broken English these people taught their children and learned themselves how to be Americans. Our history became their history. They had no other history nor any other country. They took the oath of citizenship very seriously. They shook off whatever they were and became wholly and fully Americans.

I am proud of those people even though I have no connection to them at all, aside from knowing them. They came starving, dressed in rags, some still had the tattoos the Nazis engraved on their arms. They got nothing. There was no welfare. If they were sick they were immediately sent back. No appeal, no right to medical care. They had to be healthy and strong. They had to benefit the country.

To see the cheapening of what they struggled for and so many died for by allowing dual citizenship, stretching the application of birthright citizenship and giving our citizenship to the people that hate us the most is DISGUSTING and INSULTING.

You and I will never change one another's minds. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Xchel]

enough to make sure that your son carried another citizenship.

problem is I didn't make sure of anything..I never acted at all..it happened automatically when I had a child by someone born in Honduras.

 

[Katzndogz]

enough to make sure that your son carried another citizenship.

problem is I didn't make sure of anything..I never acted at all..it happened automatically when I had a child by someone born in Honduras.

It isn't registered anywhere? No record of it? No birth certificate, no way to absolve one of allegiance to another nation?

 

[Xchel]

enough to make sure that your son carried another citizenship.

problem is I didn't make sure of anything..I never acted at all..it happened automatically when I had a child by someone born in Honduras.

It isn't registered anywhere? No record of it? No birth certificate, no way to absolve one of allegiance to another nation?

no way to absolve it it is constitutional in the country of Honduras and automatic. The US birth certificate showing his father was born in Honduras is the only thing that is needed.

 

[Katzndogz]

An American birth certificate? No one even knows? Honduras doesn't even know? Seems like an administrative issue. If so, why would you ever say that your son was a dual citizen of anyplace? Why not just consider him an American? You don't. So there must be something about being a Honduran citizen that you are proud of.