Free will? or god's will?

Luddly Neddite

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Family Of Toddler Shot Dead By 5-Year-Old Brother: ‘It Was God’s Will’

by Steven Bernstein • August 25, 2015


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Besides the tragedy that guns can bring, there is no deadlier combination for moral and legal responsibility than guns and God. Just ask the family of Caroline Sparks, a two-year-old toddler who was shot with a .22 rifle by her brother- who was five years old, and received the gun as a birthday gift.


What is most difficult to comprehend is the family’s response. Little Caroline was described by her family in the video as a “church-going girl who enjoyed singing and playing outdoors,” as if she understood and chose to accept Divine Revelation at 2 – and go to church.


Acknowledging the tragedy, Caroline’s uncle said “It’s just tragic…It’s something that you can’t prepare for, as if you should ever have to. The family believes that Caroline is in a “better place.”

The grandmother said It was God’s will. It was her time to go, I guess…I just know she’s in heaven right now and I know she’s in good hands with the Lord.”


I'm putting this in Religion in hopes that it won't be a discussion about giving children access to guns.

Every once in a while, I think to try again to actually discuss religious beliefs. I'm fascinated by the concept of "sin" but even more by the teeter-totter belief in "god's will". I say "teeter-totter" because it seems to me it is often invoked when people can't or won't take responsibility for their own decisions - "free will" and instead, blame their god.

There's a documentary showing on HBO about fundies disagreement with Darwin - a subject for a different thread. It shows a very tragic case of a young teenage girl who had suffered a spinal cord injury in a car accident and will be forever paralyzed.

She and her parents believe the doctors are wrong, they pray constantly and the mother expressed her disappointment that god is choosing to ignore her asking for her daughter to walk again. (This also reminds me of those who believe in faith healers, don't seek medical care and believe the bad outcome means someone didn't believe hard enough) Then she said that her faith gives her great comfort and said she could not imagine how non-believers could bear such a tragedy.

Where does the responsibility lie? Isn't god all knowing, all seeing? If so, he made these tragedies happen by directing an adult to give a baby a gun and by making a truck hit the car the girl was driving. (Or was it the doing of satan")

If the tragedies are caused by free will, if the adult and the car/truck drivers made the decisions then why bother bring a god into it? And why pray to a god to change the outcome of the people's actions?

Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

Anyone?
 
Same documentary discussed how Darwin questioned the enormous suffering and cruelty in the world. Not just 'man's inhumanity to man' but in the natural world as well. He couldn't accept a god who would purposely cause his own creations such unimaginable pain.

So, the same question: who is responsible for that pain and suffering? Again, I believe human beings choose their own actions but what about the natural world? Why would a god create animals who cause other animals incredible physical pain in order to survive?
 
nothing gets by God unawares.
I can not speak to the almighty God's will, but we live in a fallen state.
some people say whatever they need to to comfort themselves, but, rest assured, this soul is in Heaven.
That's enough comfort for anyone.
 
nothing gets by God unawares.
I can not speak to the almighty God's will, but we live in a fallen state.
some people say whatever they need to to comfort themselves, but, rest assured, this soul is in Heaven.
That's enough comfort for anyone.
Yet no proof...
 
nothing gets by God unawares.
I can not speak to the almighty God's will, but we live in a fallen state.
some people say whatever they need to to comfort themselves, but, rest assured, this soul is in Heaven.
That's enough comfort for anyone.
Yet no proof...

what do you want MG? want me to have Him call you on the phone?
 
nothing gets by God unawares.
I can not speak to the almighty God's will, but we live in a fallen state.
some people say whatever they need to to comfort themselves, but, rest assured, this soul is in Heaven.
That's enough comfort for anyone.
Yet no proof...

what do you want MG? want me to have Him call you on the phone?
Come over for a blitz and a bong...
 
And what about the 5 year old, he is going to feel bad the rest of his life, all because of stupid parents.
 
nothing gets by God unawares.
I can not speak to the almighty God's will, but we live in a fallen state.
some people say whatever they need to to comfort themselves, but, rest assured, this soul is in Heaven.
That's enough comfort for anyone.
Yet no proof...

what do you want MG? want me to have Him call you on the phone?
Come over for a blitz and a bong...

He won't need them. He'll blow you away with more than that can.............
 
Luddly God is not to blame for humakind choosing a sinful nature. I know of a situation where a person married a girl whom her mother encouraged to go into a guy because his family had money. They married she got pregnant and had a son. The next year she had a baby girl. The baby girl died. Ultimately the guy found out the gal was hooking on the side and finally fed up with it divorce. That girl ended up hooking on a street corner in southern California for years. At the time the baby girl died the grandmother said, "God knows what is best". She was correct. That baby girl would have been very beautiful even grown but she would have lived a life of hell. The boy child survived but even so with serious hangups. God does not force humans to do the right thing. And flesh is as the grass it does grow and it does fade away and die.
 
Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

That ^^ -- Perfectly expressed.

It's totally wrong and of Satan.

The greatest lie is that there is not God and we know best.
God wants us to accept reality, that He is the ONLY reality and that we are in a fallen state.
Isn't this obvious???
 
Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

That ^^ -- Perfectly expressed.

It's totally wrong and of Satan.

The greatest lie is that there is not God and we know best.
God wants us to accept reality, that He is the ONLY reality and that we are in a fallen state.
Isn't this obvious???

Actually the phrase describes "Satan" as well. Two sides of the exact same coin. :eusa_hand:
 
Needless to say, my own opinion is that the people involved are directly responsible and that god is a human construct borne of an inability to understand and accept the world as it really is.

That ^^ -- Perfectly expressed.

It's totally wrong and of Satan.

The greatest lie is that there is not God and we know best.
God wants us to accept reality, that He is the ONLY reality and that we are in a fallen state.
Isn't this obvious???

Actually the phrase describes "Satan" as well. Two sides of the exact same coin. :eusa_hand:

No, Satan doesn't care what we believe, as long as it's not submission to God.
Humans are more than willing to play along.........
 
No, Satan doesn't care what we believe, as long as it's not submission to God

And why would this "Satan" care? What, are the two of them in some kind of football pool? They have a bet going on?

Because he resents God.

"He" does huh?

That brings up the same question about "Satan" it does about "God", that being....

How does "Satan" get to be a "he"? Who's the female Satan that makes "hiim" male?
Do they make little Satanettes?
Who did Mrs. Satan have to compete with? How did they meet?
Who performed their wedding?
Did the bride wear black?

:eusa_think:


He thinks he knows better.. just like you do.........

Hey, I'm not the one declaring the existence of entities I can't prove... :eusa_whistle:
 
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nothing gets by God unawares.
I can not speak to the almighty God's will, but we live in a fallen state.
some people say whatever they need to to comfort themselves, but, rest assured, this soul is in Heaven.
That's enough comfort for anyone.
Yet no proof...

what do you want MG? want me to have Him call you on the phone?
Come over for a blitz and a bong...

He won't need them. He'll blow you away with more than that can.............
I am sure his atom sized spirit will still be welcomed....
 
No, Satan doesn't care what we believe, as long as it's not submission to God

And why would this "Satan" care? What, are the two of them in some kind of football pool? They have a bet going on?

Because he resents God.
He thinks he knows better.. just like you do.........
God supposedly destroyed the humans on the Earth because they were evil, yet lets Satan live, makes no sense....
 

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