Forgiveness

[Liability]

Ya gotta keep in mind the context of the command.

We can only be expected to be forgiven by the same measure we forgive.

"Forgive us our trespasses (just as) we forgive those**......

Ah, but the implication is devastating.

If you only dole out forgiveness in small meager resentful measure, what can you "expect" if the day comes that you seek forgiveness from the Almighty?

And I'm not even religious....

 

[Truthmatters]

some things deserve no forgiveness

 

[BDBoop]

Yep, I got someone in my life that I can't forgive.

The reason is from experience--Each time I forgive them, they turn on me!

So I reasoned that I should not forgive them and keep them far away from me as possible. It works! They can't turn on me, and I don't have to deal with them.

And that's just how it has to be!

My biggest problem is expecting to be understood, i.e., HEARD. For them to see what they did to me. Perpetrators/toxic people seldom do. They are the center of their universe, and they refuse to see themselves as anything other than their own perceptions.

That's why forgiveness pretty much has to be an internal struggle of our own. We can't ask or expect anything from that other person. My mother even with her mind gone, somehow knew fundamentally that I was 'the enemy' - I could see it in her eyes. My daughter cried, and when I asked why, she said "That was the first time she ever looked at me like she didn't hate me."

People like that? All I can do is explain to myself that I didn't deserve it. She had a problem, and she was never free to be a happy, healthy, sane person. I can't hold her actions against her.

But knowing the truth, the best thing I could do was stay very, very far away.

 

[Liability]

some things deserve no forgiveness

This is for you to judge.

 

[BDBoop]

some things deserve no forgiveness

It's never been about 'deserving.' Forgiveness is a gift - mostly to ourselves.

 

[Truthmatters]

nope that is a religious myth.

 

[BDBoop]

nope that is a religious myth.

Truth, don't you dare poop in my happy thread. We've been having a good chat in here for some time now.

 

[Truthmatters]

Im sorry , Ill leave the thread .

I didnt know I had to answer in a way that made you happy

 

[BDBoop]

Yes. Dogs don't pee on the rugs, they pee outside. They behave inside. Calling forgiveness a religious myth means you don't have anything to add here, you're reacting instead of thinking and contributing.

 

[hortysir]

Ya gotta keep in mind the context of the command.

We can only be expected to be forgiven by the same measure we forgive.

"Forgive us our trespasses (just as) we forgive those**......

Ah, but the implication is devastating.

If you only dole out forgiveness in small meager resentful measure, what can you "expect" if the day comes that you seek forgiveness from the Almighty?

And I'm not even religious....

That's why I don't forgive in "small meager" portions

Like Modo said, forgive for your own sake/sanity.

They don;t have to know they're forgiven.

 

[TrinityPower]

Exactly. It's like a "Guard your heart" thing, as well. It's my understanding that if I give him anything (memories attached to negative emotions) - he essentially did what he came to do.

Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do" because what was done was done because of deception. It is more difficult to forgive when someone knows what they are doing is wrong and hurtful deliberately asks for forgiveness then proceeds the next day to do the same thing over again. I know the bible says forgive your brother 70 times 7 I believe and I struggle with that and maybe I am missing the understanding of that passage but continuing to have your feelings hurt by a certain behavior from someone takes a very strong person or a very weak one. Either way to me it is a matter of being walked on figuratively and your value to that person is very small or none. A good example is someone who has an addiction...whatever that may be. Although you, as the person who does not have the issue understands that the addiction is a deception and power over the other it does not stop it from hurting no matter how many times the person who has the problem says they are sorry and learned the lesson and won't do it again. You forgive them have renewed hope in your spirit but your heart is broken again when that apology is not honored by the offender. Reminds me of the song by Randy Travis called "Promises". That song is about a certain subject but it can be applied to many situations. Eventually your ability to forgive is so diminished that the person has to walk away to stop the cycle.

I believe he meant from a spiritual perspective. Essentially, they're operating in darkness. And even if they know the Bible and call themselves by His name, something is wrong in there.

He doesn't say anything about "don't walk away, don't protect yourself." He is addressing healing a wounded heart.

JMNSHO.

I think people who are abused or live with addicts or both do their best to forgive the person and condemn the behavior but since the two are connected separating them is difficult to sort out. You can forgive the person but the behavior remains. Jesus had a very sharp understanding about this and that is why he could pray and forgive the people who persecuted him...it did not mean he forgave the behavior. Separating love of the person and bitterness toward the behavior is a fine line to cut. If the person is not truly sorry for the action (ie: cases of addiction) then don't apologize until willing to truly and honestly make a change. Saying I am sorry means to me you will change that behavior and do your best to not do it again. It should not be said to appease the other person for the time being so it can be done again on purpose...or worse yet behind their back. After forgiveness is given I don't know that there is anything worse than betraying that forgiveness than to not truly be sorry for it and continue to do it anyway and hide it from the other.

 

[BDBoop]

I think people who are abused or live with addicts or both do their best to forgive the person and condemn the behavior but since the two are connected separating them is difficult to sort out. You can forgive the person but the behavior remains. Jesus had a very sharp understanding about this and that is why he could pray and forgive the people who persecuted him...it did not mean he forgave the behavior. Separating love of the person and bitterness toward the behavior is a fine line to cut. If the person is not truly sorry for the action (ie: cases of addiction) then don't apologize until willing to truly and honestly make a change. Saying I am sorry means to me you will change that behavior and do your best to not do it again. It should not be said to appease the other person for the time being so it can be done again on purpose...or worse yet behind their back. After forgiveness is given I don't know that there is anything worse than betraying that forgiveness than to not truly be sorry for it and continue to do it anyway and hide it from the other.

Right. Nothing is simple, cut or dried. Nobody has walked a mile in your shoes. They don't bring the same tools to the table that you do (and vice-versa).

I have a sister who is a rager. She burst into tears at the thought of giving up her anger. She felt it was the only thing that protected her. I had no idea, but when she told me it made perfect sense. Unfortunately, it then became a habit that spilled over into other areas of her life.

Unforgiveness has the same effect. However, how else are we supposed to get through the constant breaking of trust (if we don't guard ourselves by remembering what the pattern is)?

 

[TrinityPower]

I think people who are abused or live with addicts or both do their best to forgive the person and condemn the behavior but since the two are connected separating them is difficult to sort out. You can forgive the person but the behavior remains. Jesus had a very sharp understanding about this and that is why he could pray and forgive the people who persecuted him...it did not mean he forgave the behavior. Separating love of the person and bitterness toward the behavior is a fine line to cut. If the person is not truly sorry for the action (ie: cases of addiction) then don't apologize until willing to truly and honestly make a change. Saying I am sorry means to me you will change that behavior and do your best to not do it again. It should not be said to appease the other person for the time being so it can be done again on purpose...or worse yet behind their back. After forgiveness is given I don't know that there is anything worse than betraying that forgiveness than to not truly be sorry for it and continue to do it anyway and hide it from the other.

Right. Nothing is simple, cut or dried. Nobody has walked a mile in your shoes. They don't bring the same tools to the table that you do (and vice-versa).

I have a sister who is a rager. She burst into tears at the thought of giving up her anger. She felt it was the only thing that protected her. I had no idea, but when she told me it made perfect sense. Unfortunately, it then became a habit that spilled over into other areas of her life.

Unforgiveness has the same effect. However, how else are we supposed to get through the constant breaking of trust (if we don't guard ourselves by remembering what the pattern is)?

It is interesting how much unforgiveness affects the physical body. I used to be a patient of a chiropractor that had an interesting way of adjustment. Often times the body will become out of alignmment from thoughts. I know it sounds strange but instead of cracking something back into place he placed a finger usually on the neck and one on the head. They were energy points. He said take in a breath and go thru the three parts of forgivness regarding _____. The three parts were: I forgive myself whenever I have resonated with the feeling of ______(if there was another person involved include that person along with the emotion. I invite____(the other person if there is one) to forgive me whenever I have resonated with the feeling of _____. And I forgive myself for letting this feeling of _____ interfere with my perfect health success and well being. Then when he felt the energy in those nerve points begin to flow he said breathe out and would check the alignment again which was usually checking your legs and the length of your legs and they were back to being the same length. I know it sounds like a strange method but honestly it worked. It is just an example of how much tension one holds in their body when there is strife. I have a degenerative disease that flares greatly when I stress and if I ignore the stimuli creating it my body can't overcome it and relax and come back into balance. Sometimes forgiveness is a matter of balance within yourself and carrying it is only hurtful to yourself but as I said some situations have to be walked away from to put it behind you and whenever thoughts of that wrong cross your mind you have to go thru those three parts of forgiveness to put it under your feet again. If you would like to read about this method of chiropractic it is called the BEST method.

 

[MeBelle]

When you see rain coming, do you prepare, or get caught off guard? It is okay to buffer yourself from harm and abuse.
Unless the 'harm' or 'abuse' changes constantly, like living with someone who has 30 personalities.

There is also nothing wrong with pointing out injustice. Voice does bring wrong action to light, right?
Bringing wrong actions to light does not mean the wrong doings will stop.

And by doing so, does effect change, both directly, and indirectly.

Indirectly, I can buy into, if the only thing that is accomplished is relieving oneself of hurt.

Respect is earned, it's not a given. Even if your philosophy is keeping doors opened unless reason is given to close them, either permanently, or conditionally. This is separate from Forgiveness. We are each in our own place, in relation to the path, each with different burdens, those burdens do change along the way. The nature of our relationships should change with growth, no? With those close to us, we tend to tolerate more than from those not. In relation to family, we are more vulnerable.

When we bring wrong doings to light, there are less places for those responsible to hide. It is also a warning to the unsuspecting. That does effect change. Sort of like burning bridges or banging your head against a wall, trying the same formula over and over again. Sooner or later it gets old, even for the perpetrator, even if it's the just getting caught. The only exception I can think of might be masturbation.

You have hairy palms?

There should be a separation from family and 'others' within this conversation.

The group of people 'alien sorority sisters' to coin someone's phrase, that I deal with are not my friends nor are they my enemies. They are an odd enigma of persons that I must associate with. Those that should be holding them accountable, do not, regardless of how many people bring the bad behavior to light.

 

[BDBoop]

Oh, exactly! Accountability plays a huge part in what happens. If they are confronted and refuse to acknowledge, then to quote Bill Engvall or however it's spelled - there's your sign.

 

[Liability]

I am even contemplating forgiving BDBoop for this thread.

 

[BDBoop]

I am even contemplating forgiving BDBoop for this thread.

Don't rush anything!! Prayerful contemplation is the answer, my friend.

I'd give it a month.

 

[Liability]

I am even contemplating forgiving BDBoop for this thread.

Don't rush anything!! Prayerful contemplation is the answer, my friend.

I'd give it a month.

Fuck it.

I'm decisive.

Forgiveness denied.

 

[BDBoop]

Prick. >.>

 

[MeBelle]

Prick. >.>