Forgiveness

[BDBoop]

I put this up on Pinterest. It hit home with a LOT of people. *117 likes, 430 repins* - far and away my most repinned pin.

I can't agree with that one Boop. There is one person I can't forgive but I can let the pain go away. I can vow never to let that thing happen to me again. I can live in the present and only there.

Does anyone here forgive Osama Bin Laden for the Towers? Maybe it's the word forgiveness that bothers me.

I can't process forgiveness as it applies to people like him. I'm probably about to say this wrong - but he didn't harm me or any of my loved ones. And that which I posted goes to forgiving someone who did.

 

[BDBoop]

then what is there to forgive? if a person does not realize the damage they have done......then what is there to forgive.....my comment when i was told my mother's sister was in a car wreck...."damn it was not fatal" and yes it takes a lot of energy to fuel that level of hate...

You forgive for your own heart's sake.
You don't have to let the other person know. Let them fester in the consequences of their own actions.
Hell, chances are they don't think they've done anything to be forgiven for.
Even if they do know they've done wrong, don't give them the gratification of knowing that "it's okay".

Just let them go, like a few have said.....don't let them be that black spot in your heart.

It's like that saying, holding unforgiveness in your heart is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

 

[syrenn]

I put this up on Pinterest. It hit home with a LOT of people. *117 likes, 430 repins* - far and away my most repinned pin.

I can't agree with that one Boop. There is one person I can't forgive but I can let the pain go away. I can vow never to let that thing happen to me again. I can live in the present and only there.

Does anyone here forgive Osama Bin Laden for the Towers? Maybe it's the word forgiveness that bothers me.

That was sorta my point in my first post...


Some people should never be forgiven....ever. bin laden is a good example.

 

[Si modo]

I put this up on Pinterest. It hit home with a LOT of people. *117 likes, 430 repins* - far and away my most repinned pin.

I can't agree with that one Boop. There is one person I can't forgive but I can let the pain go away. I can vow never to let that thing happen to me again. I can live in the present and only there.

Does anyone here forgive Osama Bin Laden for the Towers? Maybe it's the word forgiveness that bothers me.

That was sorta my point in my first post...


Some people should never be forgiven....ever. bin laden is a good example.

I see your point on that. So, for those who cannot be forgiven, like Bin Laden, a redirection of that resentment for constructive/proactive energies is that strength you spoke of.

I agree.

But, the energies must be redirected, otherwise the hurt is only on ourselves. And the learning experience is priceless.

 

[Intense]

When you see rain coming, do you prepare, or get caught off guard? It is okay to buffer yourself from harm and abuse.
Unless the 'harm' or 'abuse' changes constantly, like living with someone who has 30 personalities.

There is also nothing wrong with pointing out injustice. Voice does bring wrong action to light, right?
Bringing wrong actions to light does not mean the wrong doings will stop.

And by doing so, does effect change, both directly, and indirectly.

Indirectly, I can buy into, if the only thing that is accomplished is relieving oneself of hurt.

Respect is earned, it's not a given. Even if your philosophy is keeping doors opened unless reason is given to close them, either permanently, or conditionally. This is separate from Forgiveness. We are each in our own place, in relation to the path, each with different burdens, those burdens do change along the way. The nature of our relationships should change with growth, no? With those close to us, we tend to tolerate more than from those not. In relation to family, we are more vulnerable.

When we bring wrong doings to light, there are less places for those responsible to hide. It is also a warning to the unsuspecting. That does effect change. Sort of like burning bridges or banging your head against a wall, trying the same formula over and over again. Sooner or later it gets old, even for the perpetrator, even if it's the just getting caught. The only exception I can think of might be masturbation.

 

[syrenn]

I can't agree with that one Boop. There is one person I can't forgive but I can let the pain go away. I can vow never to let that thing happen to me again. I can live in the present and only there.

Does anyone here forgive Osama Bin Laden for the Towers? Maybe it's the word forgiveness that bothers me.

That was sorta my point in my first post...


Some people should never be forgiven....ever. bin laden is a good example.

I see your point on that. So, for those who cannot be forgiven, like Bin Laden, a redirection of that resentment for constructive/proactive energies is that strength you spoke of.

I agree.

But, the energies must be redirected, otherwise the hurt is only on ourselves. And the learning experience is priceless.

There is a lot involved in not forgiving someone who has done something to you personally... There can be anger, hurt, resentment,fear. All of those things can be used to draw strength from.......not just negative feeling or emotions.

Life experiences are tools. Its all about how you use them.

 

[Immanuel]

When you see rain coming, do you prepare, or get caught off guard? It is okay to buffer yourself from harm and abuse.
Unless the 'harm' or 'abuse' changes constantly, like living with someone who has 30 personalities.

There is also nothing wrong with pointing out injustice. Voice does bring wrong action to light, right?
Bringing wrong actions to light does not mean the wrong doings will stop.

And by doing so, does effect change, both directly, and indirectly.

Indirectly, I can buy into, if the only thing that is accomplished is relieving oneself of hurt.

Respect is earned, it's not a given. Even if your philosophy is keeping doors opened unless reason is given to close them, either permanently, or conditionally. This is separate from Forgiveness. We are each in our own place, in relation to the path, each with different burdens, those burdens do change along the way. The nature of our relationships should change with growth, no? With those close to us, we tend to tolerate more than from those not. In relation to family, we are more vulnerable.

When we bring wrong doings to light, there are less places for those responsible to hide. It is also a warning to the unsuspecting. That does effect change. Sort of like burning bridges or banging your head against a wall, trying the same formula over and over again. Sooner or later it gets old, even for the perpetrator, even if it's the just getting caught. The only exception I can think of might be masturbation.

I have to disagree. Respect is lost. We should give respect to everyone upon first encountering them. Then if someone does something to deserve the loss of respect it should be taken away. Later, one can earn back that respect.

Immie

 

[strollingbones]

nope....cant see forgiving any of them....definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.....no use to forgive them....it wont stop them from being the people they are

i assure you this is a continual debate around here...how bitter do i wish to become etc....well i am good with it for now...perhaps later i will change my mind...(we all know i wont)

 

[Si modo]

nope....cant see forgiving any of them....definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.....no use to forgive them....it wont stop them from being the people they are

i assure you this is a continual debate around here...how bitter do i wish to become etc....well i am good with it for now...perhaps later i will change my mind...(we all know i wont)

It sure won't stop them from being who they are because the act of forgiving is for yourself, not for them.

It works for me. Others it may not.

 

[strollingbones]

what is forgiving them gonna do for me?

remove the hate? i dont think so....i never hated anyone before...now i got a friggin list

 

[Si modo]

what is forgiving them gonna do for me?

remove the hate? i dont think so....i never hated anyone before...now i got a friggin list

I'm just going to guess that the hate is towards others you previously loved (as you mentioned family). Hate and love are two sides of the same coin.

If so, that sort of betrayal is hard to stomach. It hurts, right?

I understand that sort of hurt from betrayal. It DOES hurt, in my experience.

And, it hurts you.

So you may want to ask yourself why allow them to continue to hurt you. I asked myself the same. You could do a mafia thing - make them dead to you. If that doesn't work, lower your expectations of them. If you don't expect them to help with your mother, then you can't continue to be disappointed.

I'm just guessing though, and forgive me if I am off base. But, I do know about how loved ones can disappointment/betray/etc.. It used to hurt a lot, now not so much.

 

[strollingbones]

yes it was family...i make no secret of that...and yes when you beg people to help you...to help someone you love by doing what is right and they just blindside you with their selfishness that they want to disguise as 'love for their sister'.....now remember these are people who had not seen her in 2 years....fuck em....they are dead to me.....i dont expect them to do anything for my mother but keep her upset...but since mom's memory is nothing....there isnt anything i can do.....and yes i have talked to my lawyer...

the transition from never having hated anyone...*i was rather the pollyanna in blue jeans* to really developing a hate for others has been something...i use to wonder how someone could kill someone.....now i understand completely and feel myself entirely capable of it....something i would never have thought in the past

 

[AquaAthena]

Are there people you cannot or will not forgive?

I like the way you posed this question, BDB. "Cannot or will not." There is a big difference between the two.

If a person chooses not to forgive the gravity of an offense, it works well to compartmentalize it, and then it is gone from ones' psyche, and can be dropped and forgotten. One can move on, with an open mind and happy heart, looking forward to fresh beginnings; the offense being in storage, until enough time has passed, for it to dissovle on it's own.

I am fortunate to have a shory memory when it comes to the very few times, I have not forgiven. If it hasn't been recent, then it has been forgotten.

When one looks at the positive side of forgiveness, one can find peace and look forward to their new adventures. "To everything there is a season."

 

[BDBoop]

I can't agree with that one Boop. There is one person I can't forgive but I can let the pain go away. I can vow never to let that thing happen to me again. I can live in the present and only there.

Does anyone here forgive Osama Bin Laden for the Towers? Maybe it's the word forgiveness that bothers me.

That was sorta my point in my first post...


Some people should never be forgiven....ever. bin laden is a good example.

I see your point on that. So, for those who cannot be forgiven, like Bin Laden, a redirection of that resentment for constructive/proactive energies is that strength you spoke of.

I agree.

But, the energies must be redirected, otherwise the hurt is only on ourselves. And the learning experience is priceless.

Exactly. It's like a "Guard your heart" thing, as well. It's my understanding that if I give him anything (memories attached to negative emotions) - he essentially did what he came to do.

 

[Si modo]

That was sorta my point in my first post...


Some people should never be forgiven....ever. bin laden is a good example.

I see your point on that. So, for those who cannot be forgiven, like Bin Laden, a redirection of that resentment for constructive/proactive energies is that strength you spoke of.

I agree.

But, the energies must be redirected, otherwise the hurt is only on ourselves. And the learning experience is priceless.

Exactly. It's like a "Guard your heart" thing, as well. It's my understanding that if I give him anything (memories attached to negative emotions) - he essentially did what he came to do.

You bet...like you said about poison.....

 

[BDBoop]

nope....cant see forgiving any of them....definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.....no use to forgive them....it wont stop them from being the people they are

i assure you this is a continual debate around here...how bitter do i wish to become etc....well i am good with it for now...perhaps later i will change my mind...(we all know i wont)

In my case, it was my mother setting the example. Not forgiving wrongs done 30 years ago. Not forgiving someone who abused ME? That I'd already forgiven. Etc. No burden was too small to add to the pile.

I put burdens down with time, and if the good outweighs the bad. If the harm outweighs the good, then in my mind they are 'scorpions and rattlesnakes,' and I must keep very far away. But time always winds up winning.

There's a family situation right now that's been going on for over 25 years, and gotten really bad in the years leading up to and following my mother's death. I don't want them dead or maimed. I want them in jail. Yes, it's criminal and yes. They did a lot of damage. So paying for their crimes will work. But you better believe that if they don't? I'm gonna have a serious uphill 'forgiveness' battle in front of me.

 

[BDBoop]

Are there people you cannot or will not forgive?

I like the way you posed this question, BDB. "Cannot or will not." There is a big difference between the two.

If a person chooses not to forgive the gravity of an offense, it works well to compartmentalize it, and then it is gone from ones' psyche, and can be dropped and forgotten. One can move on, with an open mind and happy heart, looking forward to fresh beginnings; the offense being in storage, until enough time has passed, for it to dissovle on it's own.

I am fortunate to have a shory memory when it comes to the very few times, I have not forgiven. If it hasn't been recent, then it has been forgotten.

When one looks at the positive side of forgiveness, one can find peace and look forward to their new adventures. "To everything there is a season."

Exactly. I've told *this is one of the easier ways it applies* three people on this board that whatever happened between us before is forgotten. They're good people, and I'm glad I got a second chance to find that out. And everything else passes with time, like you said. Time, and distance.

 

[TrinityPower]

That was sorta my point in my first post...


Some people should never be forgiven....ever. bin laden is a good example.

I see your point on that. So, for those who cannot be forgiven, like Bin Laden, a redirection of that resentment for constructive/proactive energies is that strength you spoke of.

I agree.

But, the energies must be redirected, otherwise the hurt is only on ourselves. And the learning experience is priceless.

Exactly. It's like a "Guard your heart" thing, as well. It's my understanding that if I give him anything (memories attached to negative emotions) - he essentially did what he came to do.

Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do" because what was done was done because of deception. It is more difficult to forgive when someone knows what they are doing is wrong and hurtful deliberately asks for forgiveness then proceeds the next day to do the same thing over again. I know the bible says forgive your brother 70 times 7 I believe and I struggle with that and maybe I am missing the understanding of that passage but continuing to have your feelings hurt by a certain behavior from someone takes a very strong person or a very weak one. Either way to me it is a matter of being walked on figuratively and your value to that person is very small or none. A good example is someone who has an addiction...whatever that may be. Although you, as the person who does not have the issue understands that the addiction is a deception and power over the other it does not stop it from hurting no matter how many times the person who has the problem says they are sorry and learned the lesson and won't do it again. You forgive them have renewed hope in your spirit but your heart is broken again when that apology is not honored by the offender. Reminds me of the song by Randy Travis called "Promises". That song is about a certain subject but it can be applied to many situations. Eventually your ability to forgive is so diminished that the person has to walk away to stop the cycle.

 

[amrchaos]

Yep, I got someone in my life that I can't forgive.

The reason is from experience--Each time I forgive them, they turn on me!

So I reasoned that I should not forgive them and keep them far away from me as possible. It works! They can't turn on me, and I don't have to deal with them.

 

[BDBoop]

I see your point on that. So, for those who cannot be forgiven, like Bin Laden, a redirection of that resentment for constructive/proactive energies is that strength you spoke of.

I agree.

But, the energies must be redirected, otherwise the hurt is only on ourselves. And the learning experience is priceless.

Exactly. It's like a "Guard your heart" thing, as well. It's my understanding that if I give him anything (memories attached to negative emotions) - he essentially did what he came to do.

Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do" because what was done was done because of deception. It is more difficult to forgive when someone knows what they are doing is wrong and hurtful deliberately asks for forgiveness then proceeds the next day to do the same thing over again. I know the bible says forgive your brother 70 times 7 I believe and I struggle with that and maybe I am missing the understanding of that passage but continuing to have your feelings hurt by a certain behavior from someone takes a very strong person or a very weak one. Either way to me it is a matter of being walked on figuratively and your value to that person is very small or none. A good example is someone who has an addiction...whatever that may be. Although you, as the person who does not have the issue understands that the addiction is a deception and power over the other it does not stop it from hurting no matter how many times the person who has the problem says they are sorry and learned the lesson and won't do it again. You forgive them have renewed hope in your spirit but your heart is broken again when that apology is not honored by the offender. Reminds me of the song by Randy Travis called "Promises". That song is about a certain subject but it can be applied to many situations. Eventually your ability to forgive is so diminished that the person has to walk away to stop the cycle.

I believe he meant from a spiritual perspective. Essentially, they're operating in darkness. And even if they know the Bible and call themselves by His name, something is wrong in there.

He doesn't say anything about "don't walk away, don't protect yourself." He is addressing healing a wounded heart.

JMNSHO.