Forced sterilization?

[Intense]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?

Birth Control, not forced sterilization. Circumstances change. Permanent Procedures that are not reversible are not a viable solution. The solution, maybe, has more to do with the development of Personal Responsibility.

 

[del]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?

Birth Control, not forced sterilization. Circumstances change. Permanent Procedures that are not reversible are not a viable solution. The solution, maybe, has more to do with the development of Personal Responsibility.

a person of limited capacity is, by definition, incapable of personal responsibility.

 

[oldfart]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?

I'll be happy to answer. I have a family member who had to make decisions about this situation. They have been involved in advocacy for mentally impaired for forty years and the wife has a degree and lots of teaching experience in special education. She refused to put her son in an institution when he was diagnosed and raised him with their other children. In time, he was educated in a special education school and moved to a group home. Eventually he and his partner moved out into an apartment. They both work, ride the bus for transportation, go to church, and spend time with friends and family.

At an appropriate age the parents made a decision for sterilization. It's not an easy decision, but it is one parents can and should make. The couple would be married today except for a law promoted and signed by the governor of their state that would make them ineligible for Medicaid coverage if they got married. His name was George W Bush. I guess "compassionate conservatism" came a little late to W.

 

[Noomi]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?

Birth Control, not forced sterilization. Circumstances change. Permanent Procedures that are not reversible are not a viable solution. The solution, maybe, has more to do with the development of Personal Responsibility.

What if the parents are opposed to birth control? How do you make sure a mentally disabled person takes that birth control?

You can give them permanent birth control by sterilising them...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

No.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

What happened to "A woman has the right to make her own decisions about her body?" Is your real position actually "I am always right and everyone should be forced to agree with me?"

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am not in support of sterilising poor people or illiterate people. But those people who need care, and cannot even live by themselves, pay their own bills, cook their own dinner, should not be having babies, and nor should they be allowed to keep them.

Because you are unable to care for yourself, how in the world can you look after a baby?

If you are poor you obviously can't care for yourself or children either. You seem to have no actual position beyond an unfounded belief that you are perfect.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

since this is usmbs room for children

I leave it at this


Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

Evil and arrogant.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?

Birth Control, not forced sterilization. Circumstances change. Permanent Procedures that are not reversible are not a viable solution. The solution, maybe, has more to do with the development of Personal Responsibility.

a person of limited capacity is, by definition, incapable of personal responsibility.

Only if you think the law is always right.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Gene splicing to prevent 80 or below iq's. It's the moral thing to do.

There's no reason we can't do so once we have the technology.

 

[PaulS1950]

Why would you even want to give the government the power to say who can or cannot have babies?
All the people on public assistance are there because they can't take care of themselves - are they to be sterilized too?
How about that neighbor who is bi-polar - she won't stay on her meds - she can't take care of herself.
Don't forget about that 13 year old whose parents died in that tragic car wreck - she can't care for herself. They should sterilize her immediately!

Give me a break!
The government can't even tell which nations are friendly to us, how can you expect them to decide who can take care of themselves. It is sometimes unfortunate that the desire to procreate is so strong that it overcomes all obstacles but that doesn't mean that the government should be given a power that can so easily be misused and abused.

 

[FA_Q2]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

since this is usmbs room for children

I leave it at this


Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

There are some conservatives would like to see welfare recipients sterilized.

And I assume that you have something that proves this other than baseless accusations?

You are upset that KG (in a post that I assume was removed) leveled insults and yet here you are, insulting ‘conservatives’ by claiming that they supports such an asinine position as forced sterilization of welfare recipients.

Shame on you. This is not debate and if this is what you seriously consider a valid point then there is no reason to bother coming here…


Anyway, the answer to your OP is NO. Or even better:
Nee, Jo, Aye, laa, Votch, Non, Nun, Yox, Net, Tjhee, Nie, Ne, Hapana

Pick your language. The fact is that the government should not be given such power in any such circumstance. You are essentially saying that the government should have the right to determine if you should be allowed to procreate based on something as completely arbitrary as ‘intelligence’ or physical ailment. Let me ask you, what happens when we extend this to determining that the far left is unfit for parenting? How about when RW extremists are unfit? Perhaps we should stop anyone that has diabetes (known to be genetically predisposed to people with diabetic parents) from having children.

Then, of course there is the fact that those that are having children are only doing so because the state is SUPPORTING that action. Perhaps the state should stop doing so. This is not a simple issue. People need to be taken care of when they are unable to take care of themselves BUT that does not mean that the state should then take the reins and start doing things like sterilizing the ‘undesirables’ in society. The state has no such right to do anything like this to people that have not even committed a crime other than existing.

The real question here is are you so far gone that you do not see the repercussions of such power in the hands of government? How can you justify the very concepts of rights when you are going to advocate turning over even the most basic of those to the government in the name of ‘society.’

 

[Two Thumbs]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?

Birth Control, not forced sterilization. Circumstances change. Permanent Procedures that are not reversible are not a viable solution. The solution, maybe, has more to do with the development of Personal Responsibility.

a person of limited capacity is, by definition, incapable of personal responsibility.

wrong

 

[Two Thumbs]

I do not believe such an insult is acceptable as I have not insulted you. As I have said before, treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect as I have been.

Now, can you please answer my question, and tell me how you would deal with such a problem?

People like you don't deserve respect and you won't get any from me. I have no respect for you. Scum who screech "You're violating the RIGHTS OF WOMEN" when people claim babies have the right to life, but then scream "We must forcibly sterilize women!" out of the other side of their mouths are nothing but fascists and the worst enemies of mankind.

Do a search of forced sterilization and see your heroes.

That is fine. I am happy to go along knowing I am a better person, who doesn't stoop to insults when I disagree with someone.

Please answer my question - what would you do about a person who had a mental impairment, requiring round the clock care, who ended up pregnant and wanted to raise the child on their own?

a person that disabled is unable to consent to sex, so you are talking about rape.

If that did occur, the safety net is already in place and she gets the help she needs.


see

A moral conclusion

 

[AmyNation]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

Oh i am in support of forced sterilization on not just the mentally impaired.



Tennessee man has over 20 kids; owes child support to 15 women | WTVR.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e41prVDv4]15 Kid Welfare Mom: "Somebody Owes Me" - YouTube[/ame]

That's one of those times where I think free sterilization would come in handy.

 

[AmyNation]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

since this is usmbs room for children

I leave it at this


Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

If you cannot care for yourself and never will be able to, why is it acceptable to allow you to bring life, that you also cannot care for, into the world.

 

[Katzndogz]

If someone lacks the physical and mental capacity to care for themselves they are wards of the state. The state actimg in parentis can have them sterilized. Normally though, a birth control implant is used instead.

 

[AmyNation]

I'm not sure if they are considered wards of the state or not.. I know before they married both lived in group homes, and are only able to live on their own because of programs like helpers and the case worker from the state.

 

[Katzndogz]

Then you don't know whether the state has the power to sterilize them or not.

 

[AmyNation]

0.o

Obviously.

I'm discussing whether the state should be allowed, not if the state already can.