For Vietnam Vets, an apology and thanks

[rightwinger]

To all vets everywhere, thanks. And to those who despise you with their lives, ignore them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Old men always send young men to die in wars. JenT was apologizing for herself and those who acted like her. That takes guts. "Only" about 5,000 have died this time. You are right. We can be so stupid as people to put up with this.

 

[noose4]

JenT



noose, just cause it didn't happen in your little corner of the world, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I don't think you're omnipresent.

i live in very big very liberal new york city, troops have pretty much always been treated well here but for some reason the people in the "heartland" of the nation have all these spitting on soldier stories

The claim that it was a myth was completely destroyed by Turner, a whole town remembers and is doing something about it, and a critically acclaimed book called "The Killing Zone" by a war hero destroys any denial...

yet you mentioned seeing pictures of this going on but can not produce said pictures

“In the fall of 1968, as I stopped at a traffic light on my walk to class across the campus of the University of Denver a man walked up to me and said, “Hi.”

Without waiting for my reply to his greeting, he pointed to the hook sticking out of my left sleeve. “Got that in Vietnam?”

I said, “Yah, up near Tam Ky in I Corps.”

“Serves you right.”

even if that happend it is an isolatd incident.

The Killing Zone by Fredrick Downs Jr, who received four purple hearts, a Bronze Star with valor and a Silver Star.

Amazon.com: The Killing Zone: My Life in the Vietnam War (9780393310894): Frederick Downs Jr.: Books

[/QUOTE]

Then we have this autobiography:
“We pulled up in the Army school bus to the front of the Seattle Airport. It was now a little after ten PM. My ticket was sweaty in my hand, I had two hours to wait, and I’d be on my way home. …Then as the door opened, the bus driver calmly announced, “be prepared, hostile-fire.”

“What?”

The door opened and we could hear chanting of some sort off in the distance. Everyone jumped up and grabbed their duffel bag, now waiting for those ahead of us to move out. The shuffling began as one by one the fifty odd service men made it off the bus into the damp evening air. We all sauntered now toward the door as I could make out a ruckus up ahead at the main doorway. The line slowed slightly. I could make out a group of a dozen demonstrators.

It was not until I got closer that the anti-war slogans became clear. I had seen these groups on TV before I left, I had read about it while I was gone. Now here they were in front of us, they seemed older than I remembered. I watched a group of middle age women violently screaming and yelling at the soldiers ahead. I could see the hate in their eyes. God, what in the hell was going on, ever since landing in the states this has been a nightmare?

Then something wet splattered on the side of my face, then again something hit my chest. I wiped my face with my hand and realized it was a raw egg, and then I saw Franklin in front of me splattered in blood and something like guts, chicken guts? “What the hell?” I turned to see this screaming group of fanatics for the first time. As we flew north, I was able to stare out the windows as the sun rose from the East. My flight from Seattle ...It was changing too fast. I was sure I had left the insanity back in Vietnam, that is what I wanted so very much.

Whispering Death
By Robert Curry
With all kinds of introductions from the Officers there with him.

Amazon.com: Whispering Death "Tuag Nco Ntsoov": ...Our Journey with the Hmong in the Secret War for Laos . . . Lub caij peb thiab Hmoob koom tes ua ntsug rog ntsiag to nyob Los Tsuas teb (9780595318094): Robert Curry: Books

You can deny it all you want to but eventually[/QUOTE]


could be dramatic license? where were the police? were charges filed?

 

[noose4]

This is unfreaking believable.

First they go over there to fight for the freedom of the world, are thrown into hideous conditions, are shot at, go through all kinds of hell, the ones who survive finally get to come home, many wounded for the rest of their lives. Whether they are actually the ones that got physically spit on or not is not the issue, they were disparaged after going through hell for us in many different ways, which is shameful in and of itself, something many of us came to believe was wrong and regretted.

Then there are celebrations for our men of Iraq coming home and everyone (I believe) is ultra careful not to make that mistake again and the parties are a little brighter in memory of the Vietnam Vets, but how would they know that. So they watch, remembering the shameful sentiment of the past, the welcome homes of todays men, and I don't care how tough you are that has to hurt.

And I know that many in Iraq were worried they would come home and be treated as the Vietnam vets were, another spur on America's response in the 70s.

So I apologize specifically and say thank you. Nobody had to enter the thread, nobody had to make a big deal about it. It was just some font in one of a thousand threads. But you couldn't let it happen. We had to have almost 200 posts fighting about if anything happened, probably digging up ugly memories that never should have been dug up.

And now Emma, you pile on and want to see the actual spitting too. Does it matter if it was spitting or eggs or chicken blood or a scowl, Emma, after the hell they went through to come home to even a scowl instead of appreciation can be just as unbelievably offensive. Questions are asked about how they should have reacted. I would imagine they were so shocked, and after DODGING BULLETS for how many years, you think they really fell apart over spit? To think of what happened to them and then have America insult them when they arrived home, that was insult to injury, and not worthy of response.

You guys are sick, and I apologize to every vet who came by this thread. If even one man or woman who went through that hell has relived some of the anger and hurt that happened years ago, I am so sorry. And ashamed of that fraction of America that has the audacity to accuse people they have no clue what they've been through of not being honest on top of everything else.

Every vet I have ever met has not wanted to talk about nam. They don't complain, they don't ask for sympathy, they just shoulder the burdens and carry on. Now I understand a little better why. And I am sorry I ever brought it up on THIS venue. Because the majority of America seriously does not agree with these ...people.

God bless you Vietnam Vets.

your faux outrage is noted too bad you heartland types decided to do this 24 years after us nyc evil liberals did ours.
NY Vietnam Veterans Memorial

In the City of New York, Mayor Edward I. Koch, a veteran of combat in the European theatre during the Second World War, appointed a 27-member Mayor's Task Force on a Vietnam Veterans Memorial in 1981. Mayor Koch was a pioneering public official in his efforts to help right the wrongs - and alter the perceptions - of Vietnam veterans.

The Memorial was dedicated on the night of May 6, 1985. The next day, the "Welcome Home" parade, the largest ticker-tape parade in New York City history to that point, was held. The call for letters and poems for inclusion on the Memorial inspired the compilation and publication of the best-selling book, Dear America: Letters Home from Vietnam; the book, in turn, became the basis for a Peabody- and Emmy Award-winning film of the same name.

 

[Emma]

And now Emma, you pile on and want to see the actual spitting too. Does it matter if it was spitting or eggs or chicken blood or a scowl, Emma, after the hell they went through to come home to even a scowl instead of appreciation can be just as unbelievably offensive.

And I'm telling you, the people I know in my family and their friends did NOT experience that. Period.

Are you calling the vets in my family LIARS?

 

[Emma]

Old men always send young men to die in wars. JenT was apologizing for herself and those who acted like her.

I missed that. SHE spat on troops?

 

[Emma]

Using the above figures, if 4mm served during the Vietnam Era and 6% of them were treated poorly over a 8-year period, then that is averaged out at 2,500 incidents per month, about eighty per day.

Say ten percent of those were for spitting, etc., then averages to eight per day, fifty-six per week, 224 per month, and about 2,500 each year for eight years.

So, yes, 'something' happened, and it happened to many service people.

I remember the VFW WWII and KW vets looking down on the VWer vets as somehow not as quality.

I can only speak to the people I knew (relatives and their friends) who didn't experience anything of the sort.

... I'd have to count them up. I have a big family and all the men on my dad's side served in the military; only a few on my mom's side didn't (and I'm not just talking about Vietnam but served in general). Many of those who did were career.

But as far as those who were in Vietnam... My father in law; both of my father's brothers; a number of his younger cousins; 5 of my mom's 7 brothers (the older two had served prior to Vietnam); cousins (children of the 2 oldest); a number of my Mom's cousins. And then their friends who served with them (they frequently brought them home on leave and such). Not a one experienced a negative homecoming. I know that a number of them didn't experience a big welcome home either (like what I saw with my brother in both Iraq wars), just neutral, I'd say.

I am happy that your family's service members did not suffer bad homecomings. That is a great blessing.

Yes it is.

I agree that they were not sent home as they were from Iraq, as units where big welcoming ceremonies were held in their honor. But they did not experience any negative reaction.

I remember when my brother came home from the first Gulf war, he was inundated with all kinds of freebies (Sheraton offered returning service men and women free stays in their hotels, stuff like that). He was actually embarrassed by all the hoopla. He said simply, "It's my job." The Sheraton thing was the only one he accepted and just for one night. And that's because he knew my girls wanted to see the Aquarium in Baltimore and well... uncle can't say no to his nieces (he's spoiled them rotten lol).

 

[Emma]

And btw Jen, I just looked over my posts again, because I sure as hell didn't remember saying such a thing.

And now Emma, you pile on and want to see the actual spitting too.

I haven't asked to see the spitting. I specifically stated I was speaking for my own family and their friends.

 

[logical4u]

I know one person that was called baby-killer on a bus, spit on and had things thrown at him in plastic bags while walking thru an airport.
It was shortly after this time (and for quite a while longer) the military was told not to travel in uniform.
Watch the clips with Jane Fonda and John Kerry 'demonstrating' from that time...it was rude, it was terrible.
The military, also, are excluded from 'hate crimes', even though, they are targeted for being part of the military in the civilian population in this country.

 

[strollingbones]

I know one person that was called baby-killer on a bus, spit on and had things thrown at him in plastic bags while walking thru an airport.
It was shortly after this time (and for quite a while longer) the military was told not to travel in uniform.
Watch the clips with Jane Fonda and John Kerry 'demonstrating' from that time...it was rude, it was terrible.
The military, also, are excluded from 'hate crimes', even though, they are targeted for being part of the military in the civilian population in this country.[/QUOTE

bullshit. simple and as plain as that...please do provide details on militaray being told not to travel in uniform....when we picked up family member ..always in uniform..

we are discussing the vietnam war...corrrect...

 

[rightwinger]

I know one person that was called baby-killer on a bus, spit on and had things thrown at him in plastic bags while walking thru an airport.
It was shortly after this time (and for quite a while longer) the military was told not to travel in uniform.
Watch the clips with Jane Fonda and John Kerry 'demonstrating' from that time...it was rude, it was terrible.
The military, also, are excluded from 'hate crimes', even though, they are targeted for being part of the military in the civilian population in this country.

That is not why the military was told not to travel in uniform. In the late 80s there was a hijacking on a plane where a military member in uniform was picked out and killed, with his body thrown on the tarmac.
After that incident, the military changed the rules to allow soldiers to travel inconspicuously. More soldiers travel now in uniform, but are advised to wear civilian attire when entering some countries

 

[logical4u]

I was in the military (late 70s early 80s), we did not travel in uniform. We were told not to travel in uniform. My spouse was in the military. When traveling on duty, told to travel in 'civies'.
Maybe your service was different. I stand by: shortly after the our disgraceful withdrawal from Vietnam, military members were told to travel 'out of uniform'.

 

[rightwinger]

It was after this incident that the military stopped requiring service members to travel in uniform

TWA Flight 847 was hijacked en route from Athens to Rome and forced to land in Beirut, Lebanon, where the hijackers held the plane for 17 days. They demanded the release of the Kuwait 17 as well as the release of 700 fellow Shiite Muslim prisoners held in Israeli prisons and in prisons in southern Lebanon run by the Israeli-backed South Lebanon Army. When these demands weren't met, hostage Robert Dean Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, was shot and his body dumped on the airport tarmac. U.S. sources implicated Hezbollah.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I know one person that was called baby-killer on a bus, spit on and had things thrown at him in plastic bags while walking thru an airport.
It was shortly after this time (and for quite a while longer) the military was told not to travel in uniform.
Watch the clips with Jane Fonda and John Kerry 'demonstrating' from that time...it was rude, it was terrible.
The military, also, are excluded from 'hate crimes', even though, they are targeted for being part of the military in the civilian population in this country.[/QUOTE

bullshit. simple and as plain as that...please do provide details on militaray being told not to travel in uniform....when we picked up family member ..always in uniform..

we are discussing the vietnam war...corrrect...

I do not remember about not traveling in uniforms. But on the rest 'sbones, you are absolutely wrong, and you cannot prove your uninformed opinion. Credible evidence controverting your opinion has been posted. As far as the point, that's been settled.

What is unsettled is your mind. However, that is immaterial whether you believe.

 

[Ralph]

This is unfreaking believable.

First they go over there to fight for the freedom of the world, are thrown into hideous conditions, are shot at, go through all kinds of hell, the ones who survive finally get to come home, many wounded for the rest of their lives. Whether they are actually the ones that got physically spit on or not is not the issue, they were disparaged after going through hell for us in many different ways, which is shameful in and of itself, something many of us came to believe was wrong and regretted.

Then there are celebrations for our men of Iraq coming home and everyone (I believe) is ultra careful not to make that mistake again and the parties are a little brighter in memory of the Vietnam Vets, but how would they know that. So they watch, remembering the shameful sentiment of the past, the welcome homes of todays men, and I don't care how tough you are that has to hurt.

And I know that many in Iraq were worried they would come home and be treated as the Vietnam vets were, another spur on America's response in the 70s.

So I apologize specifically and say thank you. Nobody had to enter the thread, nobody had to make a big deal about it. It was just some font in one of a thousand threads. But you couldn't let it happen. We had to have almost 200 posts fighting about if anything happened, probably digging up ugly memories that never should have been dug up.

And now Emma, you pile on and want to see the actual spitting too. Does it matter if it was spitting or eggs or chicken blood or a scowl, Emma, after the hell they went through to come home to even a scowl instead of appreciation can be just as unbelievably offensive. Questions are asked about how they should have reacted. I would imagine they were so shocked, and after DODGING BULLETS for how many years, you think they really fell apart over spit? To think of what happened to them and then have America insult them when they arrived home, that was insult to injury, and not worthy of response.

You guys are sick, and I apologize to every vet who came by this thread. If even one man or woman who went through that hell has relived some of the anger and hurt that happened years ago, I am so sorry. And ashamed of that fraction of America that has the audacity to accuse people they have no clue what they've been through of not being honest on top of everything else.

Every vet I have ever met has not wanted to talk about nam. They don't complain, they don't ask for sympathy, they just shoulder the burdens and carry on. Now I understand a little better why. And I am sorry I ever brought it up on THIS venue. Because the majority of America seriously does not agree with these ...people.

God bless you Vietnam Vets.

your faux outrage is noted too bad you heartland types decided to do this 24 years after us nyc evil liberals did ours.
NY Vietnam Veterans Memorial

In the City of New York, Mayor Edward I. Koch, a veteran of combat in the European theatre during the Second World War, appointed a 27-member Mayor's Task Force on a Vietnam Veterans Memorial in 1981. Mayor Koch was a pioneering public official in his efforts to help right the wrongs - and alter the perceptions - of Vietnam veterans.

The Memorial was dedicated on the night of May 6, 1985. The next day, the "Welcome Home" parade, the largest ticker-tape parade in New York City history to that point, was held. The call for letters and poems for inclusion on the Memorial inspired the compilation and publication of the best-selling book, Dear America: Letters Home from Vietnam; the book, in turn, became the basis for a Peabody- and Emmy Award-winning film of the same name.

Would that not be considered A LIE...to suggest that NEW YORK by majority is a LIBERAL STATE? Considering the FACTUAL INFORMATION that was just released that clearly points out the FACT that Conservatives outnumber LIBERALS in 47 of the 50 states with the other 3 being virtually tied....and NY, indeed was not even tied. And another lie being propagatged is the fact that NY somehow preformed more than their share of duty in the Viet Nam conflict......when the FACTs point out that is was WHITE...PROTESTANT SOUTHERNERS that by majority accounted for the greatest number of DEATHs in that conflict. The ONLY thing NY might lead the nation in would be RUDENESS.

Political Ideology: "Conservative" Label Prevails in the South

 

[noose4]

This is unfreaking believable.

First they go over there to fight for the freedom of the world, are thrown into hideous conditions, are shot at, go through all kinds of hell, the ones who survive finally get to come home, many wounded for the rest of their lives. Whether they are actually the ones that got physically spit on or not is not the issue, they were disparaged after going through hell for us in many different ways, which is shameful in and of itself, something many of us came to believe was wrong and regretted.

Then there are celebrations for our men of Iraq coming home and everyone (I believe) is ultra careful not to make that mistake again and the parties are a little brighter in memory of the Vietnam Vets, but how would they know that. So they watch, remembering the shameful sentiment of the past, the welcome homes of todays men, and I don't care how tough you are that has to hurt.

And I know that many in Iraq were worried they would come home and be treated as the Vietnam vets were, another spur on America's response in the 70s.

So I apologize specifically and say thank you. Nobody had to enter the thread, nobody had to make a big deal about it. It was just some font in one of a thousand threads. But you couldn't let it happen. We had to have almost 200 posts fighting about if anything happened, probably digging up ugly memories that never should have been dug up.

And now Emma, you pile on and want to see the actual spitting too. Does it matter if it was spitting or eggs or chicken blood or a scowl, Emma, after the hell they went through to come home to even a scowl instead of appreciation can be just as unbelievably offensive. Questions are asked about how they should have reacted. I would imagine they were so shocked, and after DODGING BULLETS for how many years, you think they really fell apart over spit? To think of what happened to them and then have America insult them when they arrived home, that was insult to injury, and not worthy of response.

You guys are sick, and I apologize to every vet who came by this thread. If even one man or woman who went through that hell has relived some of the anger and hurt that happened years ago, I am so sorry. And ashamed of that fraction of America that has the audacity to accuse people they have no clue what they've been through of not being honest on top of everything else.

Every vet I have ever met has not wanted to talk about nam. They don't complain, they don't ask for sympathy, they just shoulder the burdens and carry on. Now I understand a little better why. And I am sorry I ever brought it up on THIS venue. Because the majority of America seriously does not agree with these ...people.

God bless you Vietnam Vets.

your faux outrage is noted too bad you heartland types decided to do this 24 years after us nyc evil liberals did ours.
NY Vietnam Veterans Memorial

The Memorial was dedicated on the night of May 6, 1985. The next day, the "Welcome Home" parade, the largest ticker-tape parade in New York City history to that point, was held. The call for letters and poems for inclusion on the Memorial inspired the compilation and publication of the best-selling book, Dear America: Letters Home from Vietnam; the book, in turn, became the basis for a Peabody- and Emmy Award-winning film of the same name.

Would that not be considered A LIE...to suggest that NEW YORK by majority is a LIBERAL STATE? Considering the FACTUAL INFORMATION that was just released that clearly points out the FACT that Conservatives outnumber LIBERALS in 47 of the 50 states with the other 3 being virtually tied....and NY, indeed was not even tied. And another lie being propagatged is the fact that NY somehow preformed more than their share of duty in the Viet Nam conflict......when the FACTs point out that is was WHITE...PROTESTANT SOUTHERNERS that by majority accounted for the greatest number of DEATHs in that conflict. The ONLY thing NY might lead the nation in would be RUDENESS.

Political Ideology: "Conservative" Label Prevails in the South

new york is one state the south is many states, this is from over 25 years ago so it is not a lie in labeling new york as liberal then(or now) and considering your post aboveyour part of the country is doing a good job in catching up to new york regarding the rude thing, and i bet you have never even been to nyc to make such an ignorant statement, the only rude people here are those who came here from other parts of thecountry.

 

[JenT]

So I get to work and part of my job is to look for articles that relate to our department. What do ya know, from the associated press, following are excerpts

RE-ENACTING VIETNAM
By GENARO C. ARMAS
Associated Press Writer

"We do it to honor these guys and to tell them, 'You weren't forgotten,' to tell them it wasn't always negative," said Tom Gray, 47, of Altoona, who played a platoon leader at the encampment outside the Pennsylvania Military Museum in Boalsburg, about 120 miles northeast of Pittsburgh.

Vietnam veteran Richard Dunkle, 62, made the short trip from his Boalsburg home and explained that the negative feelings directed toward soldiers have eased to the point where he felt comfortable four years ago to start wearing his own "Vietnam Veterans" hat.

"It was time for us to be proud of what were called on to do, even though it turned out to be a very unpopular thing," said Dunkle, who also spent a year during 1968-69 in Vietnam as an aviation electronics specialist for the Army.


"Vietnam is a whole different animal," Rentschler wrote in an e-mail. "We don't do this to shoot a lot or play army. We do this to honor vets who didn't get the welcome home they deserved."

The re-enactments can "help people forget the pain even. To hide it, it stays in here," Smith said, pointing a finger to his chest. "That's hard. I think this is good."

Military enthusiasts begin re-enacting Vietnam War - Nation AP - MiamiHerald.com

The article also says these events are popping up all over.

Naysayers on this board are a fraction minority.

America loves the Vietnam vet.

 

[noose4]

So I get to work and part of my job is to look for articles that relate to our department. What do ya know, from the associated press, following are excerpts

RE-ENACTING VIETNAM
By GENARO C. ARMAS
Associated Press Writer

"We do it to honor these guys and to tell them, 'You weren't forgotten,' to tell them it wasn't always negative," said Tom Gray, 47, of Altoona, who played a platoon leader at the encampment outside the Pennsylvania Military Museum in Boalsburg, about 120 miles northeast of Pittsburgh.

Vietnam veteran Richard Dunkle, 62, made the short trip from his Boalsburg home and explained that the negative feelings directed toward soldiers have eased to the point where he felt comfortable four years ago to start wearing his own "Vietnam Veterans" hat.

"It was time for us to be proud of what were called on to do, even though it turned out to be a very unpopular thing," said Dunkle, who also spent a year during 1968-69 in Vietnam as an aviation electronics specialist for the Army.


"Vietnam is a whole different animal," Rentschler wrote in an e-mail. "We don't do this to shoot a lot or play army. We do this to honor vets who didn't get the welcome home they deserved."

The re-enactments can "help people forget the pain even. To hide it, it stays in here," Smith said, pointing a finger to his chest. "That's hard. I think this is good."

Military enthusiasts begin re-enacting Vietnam War - Nation AP - MiamiHerald.com

The article also says these events are popping up all over.

Naysayers on this board are a fraction minority.

America loves the Vietnam vet.

then why did you feel the need to apologize?

 

[JakeStarkey]

JenT, you are dealing with kooks. I have no idea what their kooky endgame may be, but this I do know -- they are kooky and the hate the Vietnam Vets.

 

[Ravi]

Next time you want to honor Vets, Jen, leave out the lies and don't use the Vets as tools.

It's really not that hard to do.