Zone1 For Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution, question

[Seymour Flops]

Does that mean that you believe that God had absolutely no hand in the propagation of millions of species of plant, fungus, and animal life on Earth?

Did God just watch it all unfold for billions of years, and then when humans evolved, decide that they are so sinful that he must take human form to suffer and die for those sins?

 

[Donald H]

Does that mean that you believe that God had absolutely no hand in the propagation of millions of species of plant, fungus, and animal life on Earth?

Yes, in my opinion that's it.

Did God just watch it all unfold for billions of years, and then when humans evolved, decide that they are so sinful that he must take human form to suffer and die for those sins?

And again in my opinion, there is no god.

Christian churches themselves has led the charge on accepting Darwinian evolution over the creation myth. The churches were faced with too many complications and contradictions to not do so.

 

[pknopp]

If you believe in a supreme being, why does it matter how life was started?

 

[Leo123]

Does that mean that you believe that God had absolutely no hand in the propagation of millions of species of plant, fungus, and animal life on Earth?

Did God just watch it all unfold for billions of years, and then when humans evolved, decide that they are so sinful that he must take human form to suffer and die for those sins?

God created evolution.

 

[Votto]

Yes, in my opinion that's it.

And again in my opinion, there is no god.

Christian churches themselves has led the charge on accepting Darwinian evolution over the creation myth. The churches were faced with too many complications and contradictions to not do so.

Evolution does not address origins

That is abiogenesis, for which, there is no scientific method to prove such a thing ever happened

No observation, no duplication, no scientific process.

Just faith.

 

[Leo123]

If you believe in a supreme being, why does it matter how life was started?

Maybe God wants us to figure it out. Besides WTF does it matter to an atheist like you? You believe there is no God.

 

[Donald H]

Evolution does not address origins

That is abiogenesis, for which, there is no scientific method to prove such a thing ever happened

No observation, no duplication, no scientific process.

Just faith.

Only you are talking about origins. The Catholic church has accepted Darwinian evolution over creation.

You may want to try arguing the 'creation' part of that? The church may think they can have both, but they would be wrong.

 

[Meriweather]

The Catholic church has accepted Darwinian evolution over creation.

More precisely, the Catholic Church says the faithful can agree with either.

 

[Votto]

Only you are talking about origins. The Catholic church has accepted Darwinian evolution over creation.

You may want to try arguing the 'creation' part of that? The church may think they can have both, but they would be wrong.

What is the difference?

If God is behind evolution, it is still his creation.

 

[Donald H]

More precisely, the Catholic Church says the faithful can agree with either.

Yes, I believe that is true.
But the church can only attempt to say that.
That non-answer may be good enough for some of those who are already believers. And it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some others who are troubled believers living with questions and doubt.
I can't imagine how it could ever be accepted by those who are considering to accept Christianity.

You can't expect the latter to accept your god without question, as you suggest Christians must do.

And then too, that's only one contradiction of the bible among hundreds!

I speak from experience Meriweather. The church asks me and millions of others to accept your god on faith. I'm quite sure that has to be one of the big reasons why the flock is running from the churches. Perhaps it can be said to be the 'only' reason, in that the church needs to obfuscate and avoid answering the question.

 

[buttercup]

It's always funny when the OP asks for Christians, and the first person who responds is an atheist.

 

[Donald H]

What is the difference?

If God is behind evolution, it is still his creation.

I've addressed the question in my reply to Meriweather.
If that brings to mind some other questions for you, you can ask me and I'll try to answer.

 

[Donald H]

It's always funny when the OP asks for Christians, and the first person who responds is an atheist.

Why would that be funny?

I believe that most reasonably intelligent Christians are subconsciously testing their faith.

 

[Votto]

Yes, I believe that is true.
But the church can only attempt to say that.
That non-answer may be good enough for some of those who are already believers. And it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some others who are troubled believers living with questions and doubt.
I can't imagine how it could ever be accepted by those who are considering to accept Christianity.

You can't expect the latter to accept your god without question, as you suggest Christians must do.

And then too, that's only one contradiction of the bible among hundreds!

I speak from experience Meriweather. The church asks me and millions of others to accept your god on faith. I'm quite sure that has to be one of the big reasons why the flock is running from the churches. Perhaps it can be said to be the 'only' reason, in that the church needs to obfuscate and avoid answering the question.

Accept God without question?

Faith is not the end of your doubts and questions, rather, it's just the beginning of them.

If there were never any doubts, it would not be faith.

 

[Votto]

Why would that be funny?

I believe that most reasonably intelligent Christians are subconsciously testing their faith.

And I would argue most never practice their faith to any great level.

It's a scary thing.

 

[Meriweather]

I speak from experience Meriweather. The church asks me and millions of others to accept your god on faith. I'm quite sure that has to be one of the big reasons why the flock is running from the churches. Perhaps it can be said to be the 'only' reason, in that the church needs to obfuscate and avoid answering the question.

It doesn't obfuscate and avoid answering the question. The Church views God as Creator. It doesn't pretend to know the steps of this creation. The Church believes that intelligence is behind creation.

Are you thinking that it must be believed that God "poofed" everything into existence within seconds or, at the most, hours? The Bible notes that to God, a day is like thousands of years--and thousands of years is like a day.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe that most reasonably intelligent Christians are subconsciously testing their faith.

You may wish to re-think this. I will let other Christians speak for themselves, but as for me, I wish to share not only what I have come through via faith, but also what has come to me through knowledge/experience. While I am continually learning, it is all on a conscious level, and not at all about testing.

 

[Seymour Flops]

It's always funny when the OP asks for Christians, and the first person who responds is an atheist.

It's a difficult question for a Christian who also "believes" in Darwinian evolution.

Atheists love such Christians because such Christians start the debate about origins by immediately conceding.

The flaw in "Christian Darwinism" is that accepting a completely naturalistic explanation for life on Earth means imagining an all knowing omnipotent God that watched from the sidelines as life formed from no life and eventually developed into millions of species, one of which is humanity.

Then . . . this heretofore inactive God decides that humans will be given souls and a set of rules and that He will take human form to walk among them in order to protect them from the consequences of breaking those rules.

Of course there are some who try to find middle ground by saying "well God invented evolution by natural selection." If you believe that, then congratulations! You are an intelligent design creationist.

E by NS is certainly well designed if it is real and if it came from God then He created it. Those atheists you want to impress with your scientific modernism dont respect that idea any more than they do a literal Adam and Eve. They may pretend they do, but in reality they're just glad you gave up so easily.

Don't believe me? Try telling one of them that science teachers should mention thst Darwinism doesn't exclude God because it is possible that God is/was behind it.

Be prepared for a reaction that resembles a rabid dog.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Does that mean that you believe that God had absolutely no hand in the propagation of millions of species of plant, fungus, and animal life on Earth?

Did God just watch it all unfold for billions of years, and then when humans evolved, decide that they are so sinful that he must take human form to suffer and die for those sins?

Not speaking for any particular religion or organization, but my own belief is this:

What we know about science, and what we know about religious truth, is seriously incomplete, flawed, and riddled with man-made error. Where science and religion appear to contradict one another, I believe that this is a result of our failure to truly understand both of these sources of truth; and that if our understanding of both science and religion was perfect, then we would find them to be perfectly consistent with one another.

I do not believe that God merely waved His hands, spoke some words, and caused things to come into existence. As a construction worker, as an electrician, that is not how I build anything. I believe that He planned things out, and used tools, materials, methods, and skills, to create the Universe, and to create everything down to this Earth and its contents and inhabitants. What we think we see, through our imperfect science, of processes of random cosmic events and evolution, may be relics of the methods that God actually used. However the Universe came to be, however the Earth came to be, however we came to be, I do not believe any of it was by random chance, but was planned and directed by God.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And again in my opinion, there is no god.

Psalm 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.