Zone1 For Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution, question

[alang1216]

Evolution does not address origins

That is abiogenesis, for which, there is no scientific method to prove such a thing ever happened

No observation, no duplication, no scientific process.

Just faith.

Except we are here so it is obvious that it happened. If you believe God did it, do you know HOW He did it? Can you say for sure he didn't use the same natural forces He created and we see today?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Not speaking for any particular religion or organization, but my own belief is this:

What we know about science, and what we know about religious truth, is seriously incomplete, flawed, and riddled with man-made error. Where science and religion appear to contradict one another, I believe that this is a result of our failure to truly understand both of these sources of truth; and that if our understanding of both science and religion was perfect, then we would find them to be perfectly consistent with one another.

I do not believe that God merely waved His hands, spoke some words, and caused things to come into existence. As a construction worker, as an electrician, that is not how I build anything. I believe that He planned things out, and used tool, materials, methods, and skills, to create the Universe, and to create everything down to this Earth and its contents and inhabitants. What we think we see, through our imperfect science, of processes of random cosmic events and evolution, may be relics of the methods that God actually used. However the Universe came to be, however the Earth came to be, however we came to be, I do not believe any of it was by random chance, but was planned and directed by God.

That certainly makes more sense than the Rube Goldberg like scheme of Darwinian evolution which is currently being taught as "settled science" that cannot even be approached with critical thinking.

 

[Votto]

Except we are here so it is obvious that it happened. If you believe God did it, do you know HOW He did it? Can you say for sure he didn't use the same natural forces He created and we see today?

Of course not

No one can

 

[SweetSue92]

Not speaking for any particular religion or organization, but my own belief is this:

What we know about science, and what we know about religious truth, is seriously incomplete, flawed, and riddled with man-made error. Where science and religion appear to contradict one another, I believe that this is a result of our failure to truly understand both of these sources of truth; and that if our understanding of both science and religion was perfect, then we would find them to be perfectly consistent with one another.

I do not believe that God merely waved His hands, spoke some words, and caused things to come into existence. As a construction worker, as an electrician, that is not how I build anything. I believe that He planned things out, and used tools, materials, methods, and skills, to create the Universe, and to create everything down to this Earth and its contents and inhabitants. What we think we see, through our imperfect science, of processes of random cosmic events and evolution, may be relics of the methods that God actually used. However the Universe came to be, however the Earth came to be, however we came to be, I do not believe any of it was by random chance, but was planned and directed by God.

But do words also not create worlds?

I think they do

 

[Bob Blaylock]

But do words also not create worlds?
I think they do

Not by merely speaking them. No, they do not. It takes actual actions, effort, to create anything. Whether by me, a humble construction worker building an apartment building, or God, creating worlds and universes. The materials do not organize themselves into place merely by being told to do so.

I did not say, “Let this doorbell button be on this wall.”, wave my hands, and it was there. I had to measure the position on the wall, drill some holes, fish the wire out of the wall, land the wire on the doorbell button, and mount the button. I had to take actions, use tools, use my various skills, to do all of this. God is no different, other than the scale on which He operates.

 

[surada]

That certainly makes more sense than the Rube Goldberg like scheme of Darwinian evolution which is currently being taught as "settled science" that cannot even be approached with critical thinking.

Evidence of cooking 780,000 years ago rewrites human history – DW – 11/18/2022

A new study shows that early humans were cooking much further back in history than previously thought. Nutrients required for brain growth may have come from cooked fish.

amp.dw.com

 

[Seymour Flops]

Evidence of cooking 780,000 years ago rewrites human history – DW – 11/18/2022

A new study shows that early humans were cooking much further back in history than previously thought. Nutrients required for brain growth may have come from cooked fish.

amp.dw.com

Your point?

 

[Meriweather]

Not by merely speaking them. No, they do not. It takes actual actions, effort, to create anything.

Would you agree it still starts with a word? Your example of a doorbell. Can you install something that has no word, or does the word come first?

Door.
Bell.

Now you can create. With no word, there is nothing. God's creation began with the power of Word.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Would you agree it still starts with a word? Your example of a doorbell. Can you install something that has no word, or does the word come first?

Door.
Bell.

Now you can create. With no word, there is nothing. God's creation began with the power of Word.

To a degree, yes.

Someone has to have designed this building, and specified that it should include doorbell buttons. Through some chain of communications, it has to have been communicated to me how and where these doorbell buttons are to be installed. Lots of words, lots of drawings, lots of communication had to take place, between the designer of this building, the various contractors and subcontractors, foremen, and leads, down to the actual humble workers such as myself who take the actions that cause the material to be organized into a building.

Words are a necessary part of the process, but it is actions that actually create this building.

Words were surely part of God's process, but it was actions that actually created everything.

 

[Clyde 154]

Does it matter what MAN thinks or believes? God does not need anything from man (Acts 17:24-25). However......the most ardent supposed atheist will call out for help from the "invisible" God in his/her lifetime under the correct circumstances (I have seen this over my military career)........an atheist is someone that is yet to encounter said circumstance, and remains "puffed up" with pride in worshisping self, as if the created is greater than the creator. There is hope even for a reprobate mind as long as life exists.

"Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you; your burnt offerings are always before Me. I will not accept a bull from your house or goats from your folds. For every beast of the forest is Mine, the cattle on a thousand hills, and all that moves in the field is mine. If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are Mine. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving and perform your vows to the Most High, and call upon me in your time of trouble, and I will deliver you, and you shall glorify Me." -- Ps. 50:8-15

In other words........God does not look upon physical things and possessions the way man does, God needs nor requires nothing from man, the rituals and sacrifices are more for man than God, God wants Spiritual sacrifices that come from the heart rather than things that men consider important, God would have men serve Me with "gratitude" and "thanks" in their heart ..........and He will answer you in your time of need, God needs nothing from man.

Its clear........God is a Spirit that requires nothing physical unlike man......as Jesus stated, most go through life "worshiping" what they know not. We must serve God in Truth and Spirit (John 4:21-24). Anything less is worthless to both man and God. God does not need the atheist to exist, for the atheist cannot see what he cannot comprehend........the Spiritual side of reality. We must make Spiritual Sacrifices in honor of the Creator that caused this reality called life.

The Apostle stated it best in clear unambigous fashion, "For I am seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ." -- Gal. 1:10

The Apostle understood, once a reprobate toward Jesus (God incarnate).......he fell into the hands of the living God, once there, there is no return........for your eternal soul is required and that is a fearful thing, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God." -- Heb. 10:31

The atheist can think and reason as he/she will.........I have no control in realtion to the thoughts of others, but........"As for me and my house.......we shall serve the Lord." -- Joshua 24:15

 

[surada]

Does it matter what MAN thinks or believes? God does not need anything from man (Acts 17:24-25). However......the most ardent supposed atheist will call out for help from the "invisible" God in his/her lifetime under the correct circumstances........and atheist is someone that is yet to encounter said circumstance, and remains "puffed up" with pride in worshisping self, as if the created is greater than the creator. There is hope even for a reprobate mind as long as life exists.

"Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you; your burnt offerings are always before Me. I will not accept a bull from your house or goats from your folds. For every beast of the forest is Mine, the cattle on a thousand hills, and all that moves in the field is mine. If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are Mine. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving and perform your vows to the Most High, and call upon me in your time of trouble, and I will deliver you, and you shall glorify Me." -- Ps. 50:8-15

In other words........God does not look upon physical things and possessions the way man does, God needs nor requires nothing from man, the rituals and sacrifices are more for man than God, God wants Spiritual sacrifices that come from the heart rather than things that men consider important, God would have men serve Me with "gratitude" and "thanks" in their heart ..........and He will answer you in your time of need, God needs nothing from man.

Its clear........God is a Spirit that requires nothing physical unlike man......as Jesus stated, most go through life "worshiping" what they know not. We must serve God in Truth and Spirit (John 4:21-24). Anything less is worthless to both man and God. God does not need the atheist to exist, for the atheist cannot see what he cannot comprehend........the Spiritual side of reality. We must make Spiritual Sacrifices in honor of the Creator that caused this reality called life.

The Apostle stated it best in clear unambigous fashion, "For I am seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ." -- Gal. 1:10

The Apostle understood, once a reprobate toward Jesus (God incarnate).......he fell into the hands of the living God, once there, there is no return........for your eternal soul is required and that is a fearful thing, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God." -- Heb. 10:31

The atheist can think and reason as he/she will.........I have not control in realtion to the thoughts of others, but........"As for me and my house.......we shall serve the Lord." -- Joshua 24:15

Many Psalms were poems borrowed from the Canaanites at Ras Shamra. They predate Judaism.. must be universal.

 

[Clyde 154]

Many Psalms were poems borrowed from the Canaanites at Ras Shamra. They predate Judaism.. must be universal.

Yeah.......you keep declaring things that you cannot prove via any objective facts in evidence. There is no contest between the Muslim and the Christian. There is one truth, one church, one Father, one Son, one baptism, one Spirit (Eph. 4:5-6). Therefore there can be only 1 set of facts, as inspired and documented by the Holy Spirit of Truth. This is why YOU can never present any evidence to the ad hominem accusations you present. There is no wisdom greater than that presented by the Holy Spirit of God, its a waste of time to even attempt to disprove TRUTH. Yet, you chase your tail like a playful pup.

Its simple: Go to any documented history find from Ras Shamra.......and show us this "verbatim" Psalm/Poem as presented in Ps. 50 of the Holy Scriptures. Show us this BORROWED Psalm. If not.......why make such an assusation that you cannot prove to be true? That is simple also. PRIDE.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Does it matter what MAN thinks or believes? God does not need anything from man (Acts 17:24-25). However......the most ardent supposed atheist will call out for help from the "invisible" God in his/her lifetime under the correct circumstances (I have seen this over my military career)........an atheist is someone that is yet to encounter said circumstance, and remains "puffed up" with pride in worshisping self, as if the created is greater than the creator. There is hope even for a reprobate mind as long as life exists.

"Not for your sacrifices do I rebuke you; your burnt offerings are always before Me. I will not accept a bull from your house or goats from your folds. For every beast of the forest is Mine, the cattle on a thousand hills, and all that moves in the field is mine. If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are Mine. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving and perform your vows to the Most High, and call upon me in your time of trouble, and I will deliver you, and you shall glorify Me." -- Ps. 50:8-15

In other words........God does not look upon physical things and possessions the way man does, God needs nor requires nothing from man, the rituals and sacrifices are more for man than God, God wants Spiritual sacrifices that come from the heart rather than things that men consider important, God would have men serve Me with "gratitude" and "thanks" in their heart ..........and He will answer you in your time of need, God needs nothing from man.

Its clear........God is a Spirit that requires nothing physical unlike man......as Jesus stated, most go through life "worshiping" what they know not. We must serve God in Truth and Spirit (John 4:21-24). Anything less is worthless to both man and God. God does not need the atheist to exist, for the atheist cannot see what he cannot comprehend........the Spiritual side of reality. We must make Spiritual Sacrifices in honor of the Creator that caused this reality called life.

The Apostle stated it best in clear unambigous fashion, "For I am seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ." -- Gal. 1:10

The Apostle understood, once a reprobate toward Jesus (God incarnate).......he fell into the hands of the living God, once there, there is no return........for your eternal soul is required and that is a fearful thing, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God." -- Heb. 10:31

The atheist can think and reason as he/she will.........I have no control in realtion to the thoughts of others, but........"As for me and my house.......we shall serve the Lord." -- Joshua 24:15

So. . . . Darwin . . . yay or nay?

 

[surada]

Yeah.......you keep declaring things that you cannot prove via any objective facts in evidence. There is no contest between the Muslim and the Christian. There is one truth, one church, one Father, one Son, one baptism, one Spirit (Eph. 4:5-6). Therefore there can be only 1 set of facts, as inspired and documented by the Holy Spirit of Truth. This is why YOU can never present any evidence to the ad hominem accusations you present. There is no wisdom greater than that presented by the Holy Spirit of God, its a waste of time to even attempt to disprove TRUTH. Yet, you chase your tail like a playful pup.

Its simple: Go to any documented history find from Ras Shamra.......and show us this "verbatim" Psalm/Poem as presented in Ps. 50 of the Holy Scriptures. Show us this BORROWED Psalm. If not.......why make such an assusation that you cannot prove to be true? That is simple also. PRIDE.

There are thousands of clay tablets in five different languages at Ugarit..

Jews borrowed from Sumer and Egyptian mythos.

Why do you reject that religion evolved?

Quartz Hill School of Theology

www.theology.edu

 

[Clyde 154]

So. . . . Darwin . . . yay or nay?

Whose Darwin? I can find no book of Darwin in the Holy Revelations from God. I can find no passage in the Creation narrative that states that Genesis 1 is an allegory or a metaphorical whatsoever.

What I can find is, "..........God calls into existence things that did not exist before." -- Rom. 4:17 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (no big bang) -- Gen.1:1 This consisted of "time", "space" and "matter" Time, IN THE BEGINNING. Space, the heavens. Matter, the earth.

God created all the living creatures at one time, not over eons (Genesis 1:21). God created man after His own image (Genesis 1:17) God is a Spirit, therefore its man's spirit that reflects the image of the Creator (John 4:24). Just as the great scientist proved, God created things to reproduce, each after their own kind (Genesis 1:11-12, 21,24-25).

 

[Clyde 154]

There are thousands of clay tablets in five different languages at Ugarit..

Jews borrowed from Sumer and Egyptian mythos.

Why do you reject that religion evolved?

Quartz Hill School of Theology

www.theology.edu

Where is Ps 50? With all this copying from others.........Ps. 50 should be easily located.

Deflection: Turning away from a topic you can't defend. You continually attempt to claim that because something existed before another that automatically makes it truth. But you can't present the evidence that proves that anything preexisted the Creation narrative of Genesis 1. Just how does one prove an event that took place before recorded history.....in an oral format? You cannot. Simply because Moses recorded the oral history does not make that history false. Example: every culture on earth has an oral Flood Story.........does that make the Flood event in the Bible false? Hardly, it confirms more than discounts, as the Bible states the flood to be a global event. With cultures all over the globe having an oral Flood story.....it proves the flood was more than a local event.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Whose Darwin? I can find no book of Darwin in the Holy Revelations from God. I can find no passage in the Creation narrative that states that Genesis 1 is an allegory or a metaphorical whatsoever.

What I can find is, "..........God calls into existence things that did not exist before." -- Rom. 4:17 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (no big bang) -- Gen.1:1 This consisted of "time", "space" and "matter" Time, IN THE BEGINNING. Space, the heavens. Matter, the earth.

God created all the living creatures at one time, not over eons (Genesis 1:21). God created man after His own image (Genesis 1:17) God is a Spirit, therefore its man's spirit that reflects the image of the Creator (John 4:24). Just as the great scientist proved, God created things to reproduce, each after their own kind (Genesis 1:11-12, 21,24-25).

This thread is for Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution.

 

[surada]

Where is Ps 50? With all this copying from others.........Ps. 50 should be easily located.

Deflection: Turning away from a topic you can't defend. You continually attempt to claim that because something existed before another that automatically makes it truth. But you can't present the evidence that proves that anything preexisted the Creation narrative of Genesis 1. Just how does one prove an event that took place before recorded history.....in an oral format? You cannot. Simply because Moses recorded the oral history does not make that history false. Example: every culture on earth has an oral Flood Story.........does that make the Flood event in the Bible false? Hardly, it confirms more than discounts, as the Bible states the flood to be a global event. With cultures all over the globe having an oral Flood story.....it proves the flood was more than a local event.

The Canaanites like Sumer had a written language thousands of years before Adam and Eve.

 

[Votto]

This thread is for Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution.

I don't believe in anything but God.

Darwin may be right or wrong about other things, all subject to change.

After all, what human being is right or wrong about everything?

No one.

 

[Donald H]

Psalm 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Are there any bigger fools than those who believe that a man can live for three days in the belly of a fish? (whale)
~satan's little helper