Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[Big Fitz]

I wonder how much freedom and liberty concerns those with an empty stomach, or those ill and in constant pain. The argument that someone whose income (and I expressly used the word income, not earned, because many of the wealthiest Americans inhertited great wealth, they didn't earn it) is above the median in America today is deprived of freedom because they pay income tax is ridiculous.

The argument for a flat or fair tax is foolish. There is nothing fair about someone working at Wal-Mart - a company inherited by siblings who are in the top 1% paying the same percentage of income tax as one of their 'assoiciates' - is laughable and stupid.

Those who suggest such a plan is beneficial to anyone, including the Wal-Mart owners, hasn't considered the consequences of and reality of the global economy. It is self evident that allowing the smallest percentage of Americans to own and control the greatest amount of wealth is a dead end propostion.

I won't explain why again, the willfully ignorant who're advocating such a plan - a flat tax - as fair and appropriate are simply echoing the propaganda of the plutocrats. An average brain critically thinking can easily see the consequences. Economic slavery should not be a part of the American dream.

Your envy of their wealth does not entitle you to any portion it they do not wish to give. You also have no deferred right to anyone's wealth, work, achievement or ability due to your need, though it should always be encouraged to be given FREELY, not by fiat. Nor does their wealth prevent you from going out and EARNING your own. It is when they abuse their wealth to prevent you from gaining your own, that they are the ones in the wrong.

The politics of envy ladies and gentlemen. On display for your viewing pleasure. Not for the faint of heart or weak of mind... you'll think it has actual merit.



Oooh wow! Look at the green-eyed monster of jealousy dance on top of his soapbox. Once again, because they were fortunate to be born rich does not mean that they do not deserve the same rights to that wealth as you would an inheritance. Personally, I think you're pissed that it wasn't you that is one of them. I further bet the instant you somehow get real wealth from an outside source (Uncle Sugar ain't gonna give it to you, obviously work isn't so you better hope Powerball or rich relative does) you'd change your tune so fast and abuse your wealth to keep the poor away from you, your hat would spin. Nothing worse than a class crusader who makes it. You should see how fucked up millionaire football players become when they suddenly realize they have BECOME that 1% they were trained to hate in the ghetto all their life.



Yet the laws of economics say otherwise. Sorry, but you've gotta do much much better to prove your concept of class envy is more effective than capitalism. The idea of preventing abuse of power through anti-monopoly and anti-trust laws is a good thing for it prevents market totalitarianism. The US has it, but few other countries, specifically COMMUNIST countries have that. The government IS the monopoly which forces you by gun and tax to support it in whatever failing enterprise it begins. The rampant hypocrisy of such a philosophy that a few hands controlling wealth is laughable when you talk with a communist.

I won't explain why again, the willfully ignorant who're advocating such a plan - a flat tax - as fair and appropriate are simply echoing the propaganda of the plutocrats. An average brain critically thinking can easily see the consequences. Economic slavery should not be a part of the American dream.

And actual slavery to government should be? Communist systems are all based on enslaving the proletariat to the party. Your crazed demagoguery based on psychotic ideology has lead you so far away from clear, rational thought, it's not even cute anymore. If government would remain strictly in the regulatory realm and leave the markets to play out within well defined rules (including PARTICULARLY rules that dissuade monopolistic control and trusts) this nation would be far better off and economically healthier under 10 companies versus one government.

But it just goes to show your envy permeates everything you preach.

Listen carefully, I earn much more than most of you clowns on the right. Simply google any local, state or fedeal HR web site and see the salaries earned in law enforcement agencies in urban American by top managers. Envy is what motivates the Tea Party mentality, it's my retirement income and benefits which I earned that makes you and your kind green with envy.

You are an ideologue, not thoughtful and controlled by your emotions and biases. Worse you are willfully ignorant, unable to see the direction our nation is headed, because you never question your opinons. Your side controlls the rhetoric, simply because integrity isn't factored into it; win at any cost, the ends justify the means and never admit even to yourself the course is wrong and the plan needs to be evaluated and corrected. Such an ideoology is fundamentally flawed and that is why I post what I do, envy is never a factor (I have seen first hand the trappings of great wealth, it ain't always pretty).
 

Wow... Orwell doublespeak in action! Hooray!

Listen carefully, I earn much more than most of you clowns on the right. Simply google any local, state or fedeal HR web site and see the salaries earned in law enforcement agencies in urban American by top managers.

Then why do you think you deserve it? By your own logic and ideological purity you deserve none of it and must give it all to the poor or bring yourself down at least equal to them. You pledging to do that yet? It's a great idea when it's not you being forced to 'give' isn't it? Thank you for illustrating the ethical bankruptcy of collectivist and socialist dogma.

Envy is what motivates the Tea Party mentality, it's my retirement income and benefits which I earned that makes you and your kind green with envy.

By my conservative ethics, I am more than happy you can earn such a living. Mind you if it was my community and I found out you were a desk sergeant making extreme dough, I'd be voting out the politicians that made such a bad economic deal... but that's me. I want fiscal responsibility so I can keep the hit on my wallet light so I can afford a better place to live too. But if you actually got money from the private sector (meaning paying customers) I've no cause to disagree with whatever you paid yourself or got paid by your boss.

You are an ideologue, not thoughtful and controlled by your emotions and biases.

Mr. Pot, Mr Kettle. Mr. Kettle, Mr. Pot. I never denied such. I can't help it if my ideals have been arrived at by cool, rational logic and a visceral distaste for elitist assholes like you. We are all prisoners of our own biases, and to claim otherwise as you imply you are by such a statement, is the height of stupidity and intellectual dis-ingenuity.

Worse you are willfully ignorant, unable to see the direction our nation is headed, because you never question your opinons.

Name a single person on this planet that DOES question their opinions and I'll show you two liars. The one you name and yourself. Willfully ignorant of the direction our nation is going on the other hand? Hardly. I see probably far better than you for I learn from history and see how often it repeats by ignorant fools playing with the hobgoblins of ignorance in games of foolish consistency.

Your side controlls the rhetoric, simply because integrity isn't factored into it; win at any cost, the ends justify the means and never admit even to yourself the course is wrong and the plan needs to be evaluated and corrected.

Wow! Such projection! I've rarely seen this level of utter denial of self while transposing your very nature on others!... well rarely for today. We are very much on the wrong course. The course your ilk proscribes is precisely the road to destruction I desire ended. We've put up with it for 80 years too long with the growth of out of control progressivism which should have peaked and died decades ago.

Such an ideoology is fundamentally flawed and that is why I post what I do, envy is never a factor (I have seen first hand the trappings of great wealth, it ain't always pretty).

You proved yourself the liar the instant you complained over the heirs of Walmart being born into a fortune. I have seen great wealth in my life too, personally. I've know the rich as well as having spent a little time with the truly wealthy. Both deserve the fruits and consequences of their actions and property as well as legacy and lineage. On the other hand, your whining about them belies the truth when you couple it with your original elitist statements on how well off YOU are. And yet you remain unwilling to subject yourself to the same ideological purity you would demand of them.

Please Fly Watcher. All you've done is proven your intellectual, ethical and moral bankruptcy. Quit trying to preach your sob-sister religion to those who see clearly what a priest of hypocrisy you are.

 

[NYcarbineer]

One of the conservative defenses of the Bush tax cuts was always that they were NOT just tax cuts for the Rich,

that lower income Americans got big tax cuts as well... I'll bet every lib here heard that defense.

Now the Right would have us believe that wasn't what the Right really wanted??????

What do you call paying zero federalincometax and getting a rebate on the zero that you pay if not a tax cut? what a fracking moron. The rich pay their taxes. 50% of you leeches do not. You've admitted you pay ten percent..whooooppp ddddd fucking dooooo

Ten percent is HIGH for my tax bracket because I have no dependents no deductions.

I'm telling you that the REPUBLICANS caused this with their tax cuts over the years. It's irrefutable fact. Deal with it.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

What of it NYCarbiner...you have nothing else to say after I told you how much I pay in income taxes?
Surprise surprise.

 

[Moonglow]

Get used to it, and stealing from others to only make poverty more comfortable is not an ethical or righteous act.

are you ready to give America back to the Natives?

Don't ask stupid questions.

stupid in the fact that the USA was created by taking from those that had possession before the whities raped and murdered their way to profit? But you want to whine and cry cause some one that is poor is getting a meal?

 

[WillowTree]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

That's another advantage to a fair flat tax. Everyobdy pays it everybody has equal skin in the game then there aren't democrat politicians on every street corner buying your damn vote with the promise you won't have to pay income taxes,, and then they promise to give you a rebate on the zero you paid.. dumbasses.

 

[Lovebears65]

Well, I know for sure we pay for them. It irks the hell out of me people who get earned income credit and child credits. YES, we did get the child credit but we had no choice if it was up to me I would not have taken it. Just like the phone calls I get almost every week to see if I want to get 3500 dollars from the government to get solar panels on my roof. 1st If I want them I will pay for them myself and 2 what part of BROKE does the government dont know just like cash for clunkers and everything else they do.

 

[WillowTree]

One of the conservative defenses of the Bush tax cuts was always that they were NOT just tax cuts for the Rich,

that lower income Americans got big tax cuts as well... I'll bet every lib here heard that defense.

Now the Right would have us believe that wasn't what the Right really wanted??????

What do you call paying zero federalincometax and getting a rebate on the zero that you pay if not a tax cut? what a fracking moron. The rich pay their taxes. 50% of you leeches do not. You've admitted you pay ten percent..whooooppp ddddd fucking dooooo

Ten percent is HIGH for my tax bracket because I have no dependents no deductions.

I'm telling you that the REPUBLICANS caused this with their tax cuts over the years. It's irrefutable fact. Deal with it.

you tell us a lot of stuff that ain't true,, just like your obiedick dew.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

are you ready to give America back to the Natives?

Don't ask stupid questions.

stupid in the fact that the USA was created by taking from those that had possession before the whities raped and murdered their way to profit? But you want to whine and cry cause some one that is poor is getting a meal?

Oh my God...STFU and go back and play some more HALO and leave the discussion to the adults.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Hell Willow - we pay more in income tax in a week than these guys do all year.

 

[Big Fitz]

And how exactly does Judas handling the money for ALL the apostles change anything?

Obviously you haven't read the Bible. I was showing the timeline of how money was handled. When Christ was with the Apostles, offerings given to him and his ministry at that time was put in common and held by Judas, much like a corporations CFO. After he was translated back to Heaven in Acts 1:9 IIRC, the apostles had a common fund and was dispersed according to the needs of the ministry, much like every church nowadays. Paul and others lived by the donations of others plus the work they did on TOP of the ministry and teaching much like an old fashioned itinerant preacher used to do.

To then use this logic to 'prove' Christ was a socialist is laughable. Christ, in no point took money from anyone against their will as is the whole basis for socialism which fundamentally denies private ownership. Not once did he speak out against anyone owning property, servants or land. Don't even try to use the rich man parable. That is known as illustrating a stumbling block where wealth interferes with your ability to follow Jesus. The couple who sold property and lied about how much and died is an example of trying to cheat God from what they claimed they were giving versus what they chose to give. This was a tradition of corruption as old as the Levites are when the prophets cast down divine judgment for providing lame cattle and impure sacrifices.

So his whole argument (and your support of it) is moot... not to mention foolish.

But I digress.

You make my point for me and then contradict yourself.

Mark 10: 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21* Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22* And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

ROFL... thanks for doing exactly what I predicted you would try.

To use that as an example of socialism is rampant intellectual dishonesty. God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac, and stayed his hand at the last second. Solomon asked for Wisdom and Discernment and God, overjoyed with a wise request granted him riches and power as well.

That story illustrates a man who was given a choice over what he loved more, Christ or Wealth. The man chose wealth over Christ. It is an illustration that God wants nothing to come between him and us. Even our blessings that he has bestowed upon us. It has nothing to do with socialism. The man was given a choice. He was not forced.

But do continue to flail away misusing scripture. Ain't me you have to worry about.

 

[Big Fitz]

are you ready to give America back to the Natives?

Don't ask stupid questions.

stupid in the fact that the USA was created by taking from those that had possession before the whities raped and murdered their way to profit? But you want to whine and cry cause some one that is poor is getting a meal?

Really? that's what you have gotten out of the conversation? Wow.

 

[Google]

"The number of people in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, known as food stamps, hit a record 44.2 million in January. That's up 4.7 million from the prior year."

Half of Americans aren't paying any income tax while a record number of Americans are wholly dependent upon the government for food.

We are told that 44.2 million Americans can not feed themselves. If food stamps are taken away 44.2 million Americans will die of starvation. Does anyone really believe that?

How many Americans die of starvation yearly?

 

[Moonglow]

Don't ask stupid questions.

stupid in the fact that the USA was created by taking from those that had possession before the whities raped and murdered their way to profit? But you want to whine and cry cause some one that is poor is getting a meal?

Oh my God...STFU and go back and play some more HALO and leave the discussion to the adults.

adult? Like Depends, ur full of shit.

 

[Big Fitz]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

Wait... a family making 40k a year with a flat tax of 10%....

carry the one...
pickle the two...

would pay only 4000 a year in income tax.

As compared to having approximately 8000 a year withheld if they have no exemptions.

I'm failing to see a downside here. Perhaps you could educate me in how this is bad?

 

[Polk]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

Wait... a family making 40k a year with a flat tax of 10%....

carry the one...
pickle the two...

would pay only 4000 a year in income tax.

As compared to having approximately 8000 a year withheld if they have no exemptions.

I'm failing to see a downside here. Perhaps you could educate me in how this is bad?

Do they owe 8,000 a year? If not, you don't really have much of an argument (and that's accepting your claim they'd have that much withheld, even though I think you're massively overestimating).

 

[Moonglow]

"The number of people in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, known as food stamps, hit a record 44.2 million in January. That's up 4.7 million from the prior year."

Half of Americans aren't paying any income tax while a record number of Americans are wholly dependent upon the government for food.

We are told that 44.2 million Americans can not feed themselves. If food stamps are taken away 44.2 million Americans will die of starvation. Does anyone really believe that?

How many Americans die of starvation yearly?

not very many since our government cares, unlike some people on this foum.

 

[edthecynic]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

That's another advantage to a fair flat tax. Everyobdy pays it everybody has equal skin in the game then there aren't democrat politicians on every street corner buying your damn vote with the promise you won't have to pay income taxes,, and then they promise to give you a rebate on the zero you paid.. dumbasses.

That's Right, it's the GOP who is on every street corner trying to buy votes with tax cuts, election after election. Remember how CON$ mocked Dukakis for saying in his presidential campaign that taxes would have to be raised!!!!!

 

[Google]

Well, I know for sure we pay for them. It irks the hell out of me people who get earned income credit and child credits. YES, we did get the child credit but we had no choice if it was up to me I would not have taken it. Just like the phone calls I get almost every week to see if I want to get 3500 dollars from the government to get solar panels on my roof. 1st If I want them I will pay for them myself and 2 what part of BROKE does the government dont know just like cash for clunkers and everything else they do.

I understand your sentiment and agree with you, but if the US Federal Government wasn't spending $200 billion a month in deficit spending it would be a mute point.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

stupid in the fact that the USA was created by taking from those that had possession before the whities raped and murdered their way to profit? But you want to whine and cry cause some one that is poor is getting a meal?

Oh my God...STFU and go back and play some more HALO and leave the discussion to the adults.

adult? Like Depends, ur full of shit.

Yes adult.
I gave you the benefit of thinking you are stupid because it is likely you are maybe 16 years old or so - if not...well...then maybe you should sue your brain for non support.

 

[Google]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

That's another advantage to a fair flat tax. Everyobdy pays it everybody has equal skin in the game then there aren't democrat politicians on every street corner buying your damn vote with the promise you won't have to pay income taxes,, and then they promise to give you a rebate on the zero you paid.. dumbasses.

That's Right, it's the GOP who is on every street corner trying to buy votes with tax cuts, election after election. Remember how CON$ mocked Dukakis for saying in his presidential campaign that taxes would have to be raised!!!!!

So let me get this right: when Democrats support welfare programs that directly takes tax revenues and gives them to people that isn't buying votes, but when Republicans support allowing tax payers to keep more of their own income that is vote buying?