Fixing Tax Loopholes, 51% of Americans Pay NO Incomes Taxes

[Polk]

I would ammend that to active military in a war zone! and then we'd be in agreement.

You know we already do that, right?

No I didn't but thanks for telling me.

Combat Zone Tax Exclusions - Military Benefits - Military.com

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you think trying to raise taxes on just the wealthy is difficult,

try raising taxes on just the not-wealthy.

Sorry conservatives, and anyone else who hates it...

...you are stuck with this no-tax half of the American population. You wanted it, you got it.

I never wanted anything of the sort.
It was one of President Bush's many failures - the number of wage earners who received more from the IRS than they paid in - grew more under President Bush Jr. than any other President - even Carter.
President Clinton reformed welfare - only to transfer them to the new welfare - the Internal Redistribution System.

Yeah, we know, the 80 plus percent support and approval that conservatives gave Bush for almost his entire presidency never posts on the internet anymore...

...it's George who!!?? from the Right now.

Some of us were there, however, and know better.

The Right overwhelmingly supported every Republican tax cut ever passed.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Democrats have rendered half the population dependent and unable to earn enough to pay taxes.

No friend it was the American citizen who lowered their own wages.
Every single person who graced the doors of WalMart/Cosco/Target etc. and chose cheaper items over better quality items "voted" over and over and over to cut wages and put Americans out of work.
It might have been the house republicans and Clinton who enacted NAFTA - but it was the American population that secured it's success.

By spending less to get the same thing Americans made themselves poorer...

Are you being obtuse or too simplistic to understand that buying cheaper foreign goods put Americans out of work?
Americans love to bitch about businesses outsourcing jobs overseas - but too selfish to stop buying the products those businesses made overseas.

American unemployment would drop like a lead balloon if suddenly Americans started choosing American made goods over cheaper foreign "goods"

 

[iamwhatiseem]

If you think trying to raise taxes on just the wealthy is difficult,

try raising taxes on just the not-wealthy.

Sorry conservatives, and anyone else who hates it...

...you are stuck with this no-tax half of the American population. You wanted it, you got it.

I never wanted anything of the sort.
It was one of President Bush's many failures - the number of wage earners who received more from the IRS than they paid in - grew more under President Bush Jr. than any other President - even Carter.
President Clinton reformed welfare - only to transfer them to the new welfare - the Internal Redistribution System.

Yeah, we know, the 80 plus percent support and approval that conservatives gave Bush for almost his entire presidency never posts on the internet anymore...

...it's George who!!?? from the Right now.

Some of us were there, however, and know better.

The Right overwhelmingly supported every Republican tax cut ever passed.

No, they were watching Survivor and American Idol and didn't know there were tax increases.
As of today - I would venture to say MAYBE 40% of conservatives would say Bush was a good President.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

"Fitz" means "bastard....LOL

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I'd be willing to give up all of those for paying only 10%.

In the end, I still come out ahead, because less money overall is withheld, and more of my money stays with me throughout the year.

I paid less than 10% last year and I get NONE of those credits.

Same here... but witholding still is about 20% of your check if you don't take any exemptions.

10%???
Holy hell...I can only DREAM of paying that little.

 

[NYcarbineer]

One of the conservative defenses of the Bush tax cuts was always that they were NOT just tax cuts for the Rich,

that lower income Americans got big tax cuts as well... I'll bet every lib here heard that defense.

Now the Right would have us believe that wasn't what the Right really wanted??????

 

[Wry Catcher]

I wonder how much freedom and liberty concerns those with an empty stomach, or those ill and in constant pain. The argument that someone whose income (and I expressly used the word income, not earned, because many of the wealthiest Americans inhertited great wealth, they didn't earn it) is above the median in America today is deprived of freedom because they pay income tax is ridiculous.

The argument for a flat or fair tax is foolish. There is nothing fair about someone working at Wal-Mart - a company inherited by siblings who are in the top 1% paying the same percentage of income tax as one of their 'assoiciates' - is laughable and stupid.

Those who suggest such a plan is beneficial to anyone, including the Wal-Mart owners, hasn't considered the consequences of and reality of the global economy. It is self evident that allowing the smallest percentage of Americans to own and control the greatest amount of wealth is a dead end propostion.

I won't explain why again, the willfully ignorant who're advocating such a plan - a flat tax - as fair and appropriate are simply echoing the propaganda of the plutocrats. An average brain critically thinking can easily see the consequences. Economic slavery should not be a part of the American dream.

I wonder how much freedom and liberty concerns those with an empty stomach, or those ill and in constant pain. The argument that someone whose income (and I expressly used the word income, not earned, because many of the wealthiest Americans inhertited great wealth, they didn't earn it) is above the median in America today is deprived of freedom because they pay income tax is ridiculous.

Your envy of their wealth does not entitle you to any portion it they do not wish to give. You also have no deferred right to anyone's wealth, work, achievement or ability due to your need, though it should always be encouraged to be given FREELY, not by fiat. Nor does their wealth prevent you from going out and EARNING your own. It is when they abuse their wealth to prevent you from gaining your own, that they are the ones in the wrong.

The politics of envy ladies and gentlemen. On display for your viewing pleasure. Not for the faint of heart or weak of mind... you'll think it has actual merit.



Oooh wow! Look at the green-eyed monster of jealousy dance on top of his soapbox. Once again, because they were fortunate to be born rich does not mean that they do not deserve the same rights to that wealth as you would an inheritance. Personally, I think you're pissed that it wasn't you that is one of them. I further bet the instant you somehow get real wealth from an outside source (Uncle Sugar ain't gonna give it to you, obviously work isn't so you better hope Powerball or rich relative does) you'd change your tune so fast and abuse your wealth to keep the poor away from you, your hat would spin. Nothing worse than a class crusader who makes it. You should see how fucked up millionaire football players become when they suddenly realize they have BECOME that 1% they were trained to hate in the ghetto all their life.

Those who suggest such a plan is beneficial to anyone, including the Wal-Mart owners, hasn't considered the consequences of and reality of the global economy. It is self evident that allowing the smallest percentage of Americans to own and control the greatest amount of wealth is a dead end propostion.

Yet the laws of economics say otherwise. Sorry, but you've gotta do much much better to prove your concept of class envy is more effective than capitalism. The idea of preventing abuse of power through anti-monopoly and anti-trust laws is a good thing for it prevents market totalitarianism. The US has it, but few other countries, specifically COMMUNIST countries have that. The government IS the monopoly which forces you by gun and tax to support it in whatever failing enterprise it begins. The rampant hypocrisy of such a philosophy that a few hands controlling wealth is laughable when you talk with a communist.

I won't explain why again, the willfully ignorant who're advocating such a plan - a flat tax - as fair and appropriate are simply echoing the propaganda of the plutocrats. An average brain critically thinking can easily see the consequences. Economic slavery should not be a part of the American dream.

And actual slavery to government should be? Communist systems are all based on enslaving the proletariat to the party. Your crazed demagoguery based on psychotic ideology has lead you so far away from clear, rational thought, it's not even cute anymore. If government would remain strictly in the regulatory realm and leave the markets to play out within well defined rules (including PARTICULARLY rules that dissuade monopolistic control and trusts) this nation would be far better off and economically healthier under 10 companies versus one government.

But it just goes to show your envy permeates everything you preach.

Listen carefully, I earn much more than most of you clowns on the right. Simply google any local, state or fedeal HR web site and see the salaries earned in law enforcement agencies in urban American by top managers. Envy is what motivates the Tea Party mentality, it's my retirement income and benefits which I earned that makes you and your kind green with envy.

You are an ideologue, not thoughtful and controlled by your emotions and biases. Worse you are willfully ignorant, unable to see the direction our nation is headed, because you never question your opinons. Your side controlls the rhetoric, simply because integrity isn't factored into it; win at any cost, the ends justify the means and never admit even to yourself the course is wrong and the plan needs to be evaluated and corrected. Such an ideoology is fundamentally flawed and that is why I post what I do, envy is never a factor (I have seen first hand the trappings of great wealth, it ain't always pretty).
 

 

[NYcarbineer]

I paid less than 10% last year and I get NONE of those credits.

Same here... but witholding still is about 20% of your check if you don't take any exemptions.

10%???
Holy hell...I can only DREAM of paying that little.

Take the bottom line off the front page of your federal income tax return, divide it into your taxes owed number on the back page,

that's the percent of your income you paid in federal income taxes.

Many people are quite surprised to find out that percent is a lot smaller than they assumed it was.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

One of the conservative defenses of the Bush tax cuts was always that they were NOT just tax cuts for the Rich,

that lower income Americans got big tax cuts as well... I'll bet every lib here heard that defense.

Now the Right would have us believe that wasn't what the Right really wanted??????

Well...then you just don't know jack about what those tax cuts were.
Ever heard of EITC? Reagan and Bush both expanded it's use.

 

[Big Fitz]

I paid less than 10% last year and I get NONE of those credits.

Same here... but witholding still is about 20% of your check if you don't take any exemptions.

10%???
Holy hell...I can only DREAM of paying that little.

Dude you make much more than me I would bet.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Same here... but witholding still is about 20% of your check if you don't take any exemptions.

10%???
Holy hell...I can only DREAM of paying that little.

Take the bottom line off the front page of your federal income tax return, divide it into your taxes owed number on the back page,

that's the percent of your income you paid in federal income taxes.

Many people are quite surprised to find out that percent is a lot smaller than they assumed it was.

I don't assume anything.
I have done my own taxes (long form) for over 20 years.
Last year, after rebate, I averaged $584 per week in Federal Income Tax.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hell no,, the conservatives did not want it. It's not called a conservative tax system sistah,, it's called a Progressive tax system. We conservatives want a fair and flat tax. You guys want unfair.

Uh oh. Here comes the history revision.

Prove that conservatives did not support the Reagan tax cuts, the Bush tax cuts, AND for good measure, the initiation of the child tax credit in 1997 with the Republican Congress and Clinton.

Prove that, because that is how we got to where we are with lower income no-taxers.

I don't have to prove a damn thing. The proof is in the pudding. It's a Progressive tax system. It doesn't work any longer. You know why? The takers have overtaken the givers.. The givers can't give enough any more to satisfy the taker leeches.. that's why the taker leeches are screaming for more more more.. time to go to a fair flat tax. everyone should have some skin in the game.

You spoke for all conservatives. If no conservatives wanted the Reagan and Bush tax cuts,
why did they vote for them?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Hell no,, the conservatives did not want it. It's not called a conservative tax system sistah,, it's called a Progressive tax system. We conservatives want a fair and flat tax. You guys want unfair.

Uh oh. Here comes the history revision.

Prove that conservatives did not support the Reagan tax cuts, the Bush tax cuts, AND for good measure, the initiation of the child tax credit in 1997 with the Republican Congress and Clinton.

Prove that, because that is how we got to where we are with lower income no-taxers.

I don't have to prove a damn thing. The proof is in the pudding. It's a Progressive tax system. It doesn't work any longer. You know why? The takers have overtaken the givers.. The givers can't give enough any more to satisfy the taker leeches.. that's why the taker leeches are screaming for more more more.. time to go to a fair flat tax. everyone should have some skin in the game.

I have to give more rep before giving you more - but right on!!

 

[WillowTree]

One of the conservative defenses of the Bush tax cuts was always that they were NOT just tax cuts for the Rich,

that lower income Americans got big tax cuts as well... I'll bet every lib here heard that defense.

Now the Right would have us believe that wasn't what the Right really wanted??????

What do you call paying zero federalincometax and getting a rebate on the zero that you pay if not a tax cut? what a fracking moron. The rich pay their taxes. 50% of you leeches do not. You've admitted you pay ten percent..whooooppp ddddd fucking dooooo

 

[edthecynic]

Christ was a socialist. Uh huh.

You do realize that those very verses are written about how the APOSTLES managed affairs AFTER Christ ascended. When he was around, before his Crucifixion, he left the monies to Judas Iscariot. Nice try, liar.

And how exactly does Judas handling the money for ALL the apostles change anything?

Obviously you haven't read the Bible. I was showing the timeline of how money was handled. When Christ was with the Apostles, offerings given to him and his ministry at that time was put in common and held by Judas, much like a corporations CFO. After he was translated back to Heaven in Acts 1:9 IIRC, the apostles had a common fund and was dispersed according to the needs of the ministry, much like every church nowadays. Paul and others lived by the donations of others plus the work they did on TOP of the ministry and teaching much like an old fashioned itinerant preacher used to do.

To then use this logic to 'prove' Christ was a socialist is laughable. Christ, in no point took money from anyone against their will as is the whole basis for socialism which fundamentally denies private ownership. Not once did he speak out against anyone owning property, servants or land. Don't even try to use the rich man parable. That is known as illustrating a stumbling block where wealth interferes with your ability to follow Jesus. The couple who sold property and lied about how much and died is an example of trying to cheat God from what they claimed they were giving versus what they chose to give. This was a tradition of corruption as old as the Levites are when the prophets cast down divine judgment for providing lame cattle and impure sacrifices.

So his whole argument (and your support of it) is moot... not to mention foolish.

But I digress.

You make my point for me and then contradict yourself.

Mark 10: 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21* Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22* And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

 

[saveliberty]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

Fear of the fair share huh? Democrats without redistribution possibilities are absolutely worthless.

 

[WillowTree]

You'll never see a flat tax, certainly not one as is being touted here. A flat tax without credits, deductions, etc.?

You'd see families in the 30 to 40 thousand dollar taxable income range going from paying no federal income taxes to paying several thousand.

Passing something lke that is about as politically impossible as it gets.

I know, it's just damn stupid to expect them to pay their share innit?

leeches.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

One of the conservative defenses of the Bush tax cuts was always that they were NOT just tax cuts for the Rich,

that lower income Americans got big tax cuts as well... I'll bet every lib here heard that defense.

Now the Right would have us believe that wasn't what the Right really wanted??????

What do you call paying zero federalincometax and getting a rebate on the zero that you pay if not a tax cut? what a fracking moron. The rich pay their taxes. 50% of you leeches do not. You've admitted you pay ten percent..whooooppp ddddd fucking dooooo

Very typical Willow.
People who pay little to no income taxes rarely care about tax increases. And love that free windfall 2nd Christmas every year so they can blow more money.
However those of us who ACTUALLY PAY INCOME TAXES DO care about increases...you see...we don't appreciate the fact that OUR money goes into their hands so they can get a bigger TV.