FEMA Deceives Nation About Twin Towers Core

[Christophera]

You first said "melt" so you've just exposed your own lie. Don't hurt yourself with that concrete spalling in your face.

So i suppose you will accept just pictures of the hole i just burnt in the concrete as you only used pictures for your proof correct?

I only ask as i can't upload the video from my phone to anything publicly accessable, but i can upload pictures.

photobucket will allow video
but it has a size limit

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So i suppose you will accept just pictures of the hole i just burnt in the concrete as you only used pictures for your proof correct?

I only ask as i can't upload the video from my phone to anything publicly accessable, but i can upload pictures.

photobucket will allow video
but it has a size limit

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

 

[DiveCon]

photobucket will allow video
but it has a size limit

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

you cant transfer it to your computer and then upload it?

 

[Christophera]

photobucket will allow video
but it has a size limit

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

It disproves nothing. You first need to prove there were steel core column inside the core. Don't come back until independent verification is found. Construction photos are misinterpreted and used to deceive the truth movement. Stop trying to divert the discussion. This is about a basic deception that has been used to trash the US Constitution. Either you support it or you don't. Those who support the law of the land, seek truth for justice.

Images from 9-11 showing steel core columns in the core area are really the only ting acceptable, at some distance so size and scale are preserved, not zoomed as some have tried to use when steel shown cannot be located.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

It disproves nothing. You first need to prove there were steel core column inside the core. Don't come back until independent verification is found. Construction photos are misinterpreted and used to deceive the truth movement. Stop trying to divert the discussion. This is about a basic deception that has been used to trash the US Constitution. Either you support it or you don't. Those who support the law of the land, seek truth for justice.

Images from 9-11 showing steel core columns in the core area are really the only ting acceptable, at some distance so size and scale are preserved, not zoomed as some have tried to use when steel shown cannot be located.

YOU first need to prove that there wasn't a steel core colums inside the core. Dont come back until you have independent verification


See where my problem is now? You are doing the very thing you are getting fired up at me for, making claims without independant verification (and if you think those pictures you posted are independant verification please say so now, as that is intellectually dishonest IMO)

 

[Christophera]

photobucket will allow video
but it has a size limit

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

It disproves nothing. You first need to prove there were steel core column inside the core. Don't come back until independent verification is found. Construction photos are misinterpreted and used to deceive the truth movement. Stop trying to divert the discussion. This is about a basic deception that has been used to trash the US Constitution. Either you support it or you don't. Those who support the law of the land, seek truth for justice.

Images from 9-11 showing steel core columns in the core area are really the only thing acceptable, at some distance so size and scale are preserved, not zoomed as some have tried to use when steel shown cannot be located.

This image is one of the few construction images I use, it is close enough to resolve the butt plates on top of the elevator guide rail support steel.



However the techno sobotage targeting that imformation makes it so the url will not even post, let alone the image wih tags.

[url]http://algoxy(dot)com/[/url] psych/ images/ elev_guide.rail.supp. jpg

[img]http://algoxy.com/psych/images/elev_guide.rail.supp.jpg

Wonders will never cease!

 

[Christophera]

See where my problem is now? You are doing the very thing you are getting fired up at me for, making claims without independant verification (and if you think those pictures you posted are independant verification please say so now, as that is intellectually dishonest IMO)

The statement of the lead engineer, Leslie Robertson of the September 13, Newsweek article (not reasonable to suggest that when 3,000 are murdered that Newsweek would make sure the information was good or that the engineering firm designing the building that collapsed would not demend, and recieve a correction) is the independent verification of the images that show concrete surrounding the core area on 9-11 as the towers come apart in front of dozens of camera.

Images of the crime as it occurs.

 

[DiveCon]

A hole in concrete proves nothing because the source of heat you are using is far hotter than that which would be created by jet fuel, oxy/acetlyne. Save your face and your gas.

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

It disproves nothing. You first need to prove there were steel core column inside the core. Don't come back until independent verification is found. Construction photos are misinterpreted and used to deceive the truth movement. Stop trying to divert the discussion. This is about a basic deception that has been used to trash the US Constitution. Either you support it or you don't. Those who support the law of the land, seek truth for justice.

Images from 9-11 showing steel core columns in the core area are really the only thing acceptable, at some distance so size and scale are preserved, not zoomed as some have tried to use when steel shown cannot be located.

This image is one of the few construction images I use, it is close enough to resolve the butt plates on top of the elevator guide rail support steel.



However the techno sobotage targeting that imformation makes it so the url will not even post, let alone the image wih tags.

[url]http://algoxy(dot)com/[/url] psych/ images/ elev_guide.rail.supp. jpg

[img]http://algoxy.com/psych/images/elev_guide.rail.supp.jpg

Wonders will never cease!

where is the concrete wall?

 

[Christophera]

Then as more independent verification of the images and the Newsweek article about Leslie Robertson the lead engineer of the Twin Towers construction
MSNBC - ‘Painful and Horrible’
September 13, 2001 there is the report of August Domel, Ph.d SE. PE ground zero safety report. (He saw FEMA plans 2 weeks after 9-11 at ground zero) for FEMA where he saw plans in FEMA's hand of the true structure that stood. This structural engineer is certified in 12 states.

See chapter 2.1

Here is an image of a piece of the top of WTC 2 concrete core falling onto WTC 3. The brownish mass inside of the falling perimeter columns appears as a corner of the concrete core. Moisture condensing turns the grey concrete brown with microrganisms or oxidization.

We have the steemnets of 2 engineers, independent from FEMA, independent from each other, verifying each other AND the images.

You have been lied to and you don't want to know it.

Therefore;

IF you seek to protect the US Constitution you must cease trying to defeat this independently verified evidence showing a concrete core BECAUSE the deception has been used to violate the Constitution ans seriously compromise its effect on the land and seriously begin your search to evidence the lie you try to repeat here.

 

[Christophera]

Thats true, it does burn hotter than jetfuel. But alas the other video of the steel getting hot enough to allow for collapse still easily disproves your earlier claims.

mytmobile wont let me take video off the phone and put it anywhere but on my mytmobile page, and i cant share it from there

It disproves nothing. You first need to prove there were steel core column inside the core. Don't come back until independent verification is found. Construction photos are misinterpreted and used to deceive the truth movement. Stop trying to divert the discussion. This is about a basic deception that has been used to trash the US Constitution. Either you support it or you don't. Those who support the law of the land, seek truth for justice.

Images from 9-11 showing steel core columns in the core area are really the only thing acceptable, at some distance so size and scale are preserved, not zoomed as some have tried to use when steel shown cannot be located.

This image is one of the few construction images I use, it is close enough to resolve the butt plates on top of the elevator guide rail support steel.



However the techno sobotage targeting that imformation makes it so the url will not even post, let alone the image wih tags.

[url]http://algoxy(dot)com/[/url] psych/ images/ elev_guide.rail.supp. jpg

[img]http://algoxy.com/psych/images/elev_guide.rail.supp.jpg

Wonders will never cease!

where is the concrete wall?

The concrete was cast between the interior box columns that surrounded the concrete core, the outside rows seen in the image, and the first row of elevator guide rail support steel seen inside the ring of interior box columns. The concrete was poured after steel was erected around it to support the outer wood forms. The inner form was a breakdown steel form that the kangaroo cranes would lower into place after the wood outer forms were constructed.

The steel of WTC 1 was only allowed to go up over the top of the concrete 7 floors, so it was a big hold up. By the time the casting was happening the floors were in place so the possibility of helicopter photos was very limited as the core was up to 60 feet back, inside the 9 foot floor to cieling space. Thirty five minimum.

Accordingly, the independent cameras taking pictures on 9-11 as the actual building were coming apart, provide the highest possible veracity we can find. They are very consistent. All of the information I am providing is absolutely consistent within itself, which is independently based for its verification.
This is not structural steel as FEMA says it should be.

 

[Paulie]

Christophera, I read this thread up to the 7th page, and I haven't yet gotten what your main assertion is.

You claim that FEMA lied to NIST. I get that. But why?

Truthers claim controlled demo in the towers. What does your assertion prove, exactly, BESIDES that FEMA lied?

What do you believe brought down the towers?

 

[Christophera]

God, thank you for intelligent quesions!

What do you believe brought down the towers?

I'm not talking about that because the perps would want me to do so. Doing so causes cognitive distortions whereupon the perps get to compromise the perceptions of Americans who actually wish to protect their Constitution.

Christophera, I read this thread up to the 7th page, and I haven't yet gotten what your main assertion is.

You claim that FEMA lied to NIST. I get that. But why?

What does your assertion prove, exactly, BESIDES that FEMA lied?

That the cause of death that the law enforcement of NY city and state is invalid and therefore, in order to be compliant with due process, an inquiry into the alleged and evidenced deception effecting the NIST collapse analysis must be conducted.

That is all.

 

[Toro]

My point is that their report is flawed because FEMA provided erroneous structural information. Nothing from NIST is to be trusted regarding the analysis of collapse.

Well, let's get some independent conclusions then.

Purdue study supports NIST's findings.

A computer simulation of the 2001 World Trade Center attacks supports a federal agency's findings that the initial impact from the hijacked airplanes stripped away crucial fireproofing material and that the weakened towers collapsed under their own weight.

The two-year Purdue University study, funded in part by the National Science Foundation, was the first to use 3-D animation to provide visual context to the attacks, said Christoph Hoffmann, a professor of computer science and one of the lead researchers on the project.

Purdue study supports WTC collapse findings - USATODAY.com

Conspiracy theorists like youtube videos. Here's one.

[youtube]gH02Eh44yUg[/youtube]

This is a paper by two Northwestern professors.

This paper presents a simplified approximate analysis of the overall collapse of the towers ofWorld Trade Center in New York on September 11, 2001. The analysis shows that if prolonged heating caused the majority of columns of a single floor to lose their load carrying capacity, the whole tower was doomed.

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf

And from a structural engineer.

The 110-story twin towers of the World Trade Center, which stood at a height of 1,353 feet, were designed to withstand earthquakes as well as impacts like that of a plane. This was evidenced by the fact that the buildings did not fall over on impact, says Brian Markham, a structural engineer with the Ove Arup & Partners engineering firm. The more likely cause of the buildings' collapse was the resulting fire, exacerbated by the huge quantities of jet fuel present.

When a fire ignites in a large building, its steel core does not melt, but over time it weakens. As the steel supporting the floors collapses, a "pancaking" effect will result, with each of the upper floors collapsing onto the floor below. This is why the disintegration of the towers was not limited to the top floors. With the accumulated weight of each collapsed floor, the stacked floors continued to fall. This explains why the building collapsed vertically, rather than tipping over.

From JOM by a professor at MIT of materials engineering.

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

 

[Christophera]

My point is that their report is flawed because FEMA provided erroneous structural information. Nothing from NIST is to be trusted regarding the analysis of collapse.

Well, let's get some independent conclusions then.

Purdue study supports NIST's findings.

NIST is based on the FEMA core. Purdue is not independent.

This is not about questioning the findings of NIST, this is about questioning the basis of the findings.

 

[Paulie]

God, thank you for intelligent quesions!

What do you believe brought down the towers?

I'm not talking about that because the perps would want me to do so. Doing so causes cognitive distortions whereupon the perps get to compromise the perceptions of Americans who actually wish to protect their Constitution.

Christophera, I read this thread up to the 7th page, and I haven't yet gotten what your main assertion is.

You claim that FEMA lied to NIST. I get that. But why?

What does your assertion prove, exactly, BESIDES that FEMA lied?

That the cause of death that the law enforcement of NY city and state is invalid and therefore, in order to be compliant with due process, an inquiry into the alleged and evidenced deception effecting the NIST collapse analysis must be conducted.

That is all.

Ok, so what you're getting at is that BECAUSE there was this supposed lie, then by virtue it warrants a new investigation into what really happened? Which would hopefully lead to answers to a lot of the other questions that are asked about what happened that day?

 

[Toro]

My point is that their report is flawed because FEMA provided erroneous structural information. Nothing from NIST is to be trusted regarding the analysis of collapse.

Well, let's get some independent conclusions then.

Purdue study supports NIST's findings.

NIST is based on the FEMA core. Purdue is not independent.

This is not about questiong the findings of NIST, this is about questioning the basis of the findings.

Why is Purdue not independent?

 

[Paulie]

I'm someone who questions EVERYTHING. I have questions about what happened on 9/11, and I'm not naive enough to just believe what the government would WANT me to believe.

I understand what you're trying to prove here, but I don't see where it is you are pinpointing your evidence. The picture of the construction shows something verifiable, but when you try and relate that to pictures of the collapses, all I see in those pictures are smoke and some kind of vague looking sillhouette of a part of the tower.

For someone like me who doesn't have building construction and engineering knowledge whatsoever, how do you expect me to understand and see what it is you apparently see?

There's really nothing in the pictures of the collapse that you provided that can be considered cut and dry evidence of what you're claiming. I hate to say this, but you need to dumb this presentation down a bit and speak to the lesser educated minds on the subject. I can't just look at a picture of smoke clouds and see what you see. I wouldn't know the difference between concrete walls and horse testicles when it's basically hidden behind huge billowing clouds of dark smoke.

Help a layman out, please.

 

[Christophera]

Well, let's get some independent conclusions then.

Purdue study supports NIST's findings.

NIST is based on the FEMA core. Purdue is not independent.

This is not about questiong the findings of NIST, this is about questioning the basis of the findings.

Why is Purdue not independent?

Purdue uses the FEMA information just like NIST. Both NIST and purdue are dependent on FEMA information that I assert is erroneous, a deception.

Prove or verify, with independent evidence, that FEMA identifies the core that was actually in the center of the towers.

 

[Toro]

Purdue uses the FEMA information just like NIST. Both NIST and purdue are dependent on FEMA information that I assert is erroneous, a deception.

Prove or verify, with independent evidence, that FEMA identifies the core that was actually in the center of the towers.

You have no evidence that Purdue is not independent. I have no reason to believe you over the academics at Purdue, or anyone else for that matter.

All you've done is show some pictures of an incomplete structure and your interpretation of what should have happened after the buildings collapsed. That is neither proof nor evidence of anything.

 

[DiveCon]

Purdue uses the FEMA information just like NIST. Both NIST and purdue are dependent on FEMA information that I assert is erroneous, a deception.

Prove or verify, with independent evidence, that FEMA identifies the core that was actually in the center of the towers.

You have no evidence that Purdue is not independent. I have no reason to believe you over the academics at Purdue, or anyone else for that matter.

All you've done is show some pictures of an incomplete structure and your interpretation of what should have happened after the buildings collapsed. That is neither proof nor evidence of anything.

btw, do YOU see the concrete wall he is talking about?