CDZ Fear and guns....a discussion.

[TheOldSchool]

No it's not. You don't take first aid kits into the grocery store.

Thanks for showing everyone you have no rebuttal

My rebuttal, which needs to be explained to you it seems, is you're running around with a blindfold on.

Interesting

that's how your argument looks to me.

If you saw me in a store, you would have no idea if I was carrying or not.

but the fact I do carry scares you to death.

No it doesn't. It's your fantasies of gunning people down that's worrisome.

 

[BULLDOG]

"We are constantly told that if you carry a gun you are afraid."

And that may very well be the case for some; for others, not.

Carrying a concealed firearm does not in of itself mean someone is afraid, but clearly there are those who indeed carry a gun because they are afraid.

Other than the fear of something bad happening to you, why would you carry one? A fashion statement?

A rational decision based on the reality that crime does happen to people...and that certain crimes can end a life or change it forever......like the woman who was raped in the parking lot, or the family that was murdered in Joe Biden's neighborhood, or the people murdered in obama's chicago neighborhood....

Right. You are constantly.afraid of something bad happening to you

 

[DarkFury]

this is in the CDZ because it gets a little old when some start talking sex organs and guns.....

soooo....

We are constantly told that if you carry a gun you are afraid.

Is this true.

No.

Carrying a gun for self defense is a rational response to the reality that even though I know where I live is ver safe, there are still criminals out there and that you never know when one will target you. These things happen every day, in every state, in every country.

How much fear goes into carrying a gun...for me....there is about as much emotion to carrying a gun as there is carrying my cell phone.

Now....the other side...the one that is constantly accusing my side of being afraid.....I believe that fear is what they feel....especially about guns. The don't like people, but they hate guns in the hands of people.

For example.

There are over 3,700,000 AR-15s in private hands in this country.

Each year maybe, maybe, 2-3 are used in any type of crime or even a mass shooting.

With those numbers, those who I believe fear guns want all AR-15s banned from private hands. To me, that is real fear. The numbers show that the odds of being a victim of a violent attack by an attacker with an AR-15 are so remote...you would actually have more of a chance of running into Big Foot and Elvis having Lunch with Aliens.....

And yet, they call for all AR-15s and other rifles like it to be completely banned.

And yet even if AR-15s are completely banned, there is not one crime that is committed on those rare occasions where an AR-15 is used that cannot be done to the same effect with a pistol, shot gun or other rifle or a combination of those......

Yet we are called scaredy cats for wearing a gun like we wear a cell phone or buckle our seat belts.

To a rational person....who sounds more afraid of guns...who sounds more filled with actual fear...?

ALL GUNS ARE WRONG IN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY

So you would argue that a communist society IS a "civilized society?"

Australia...IS

You do know the crime rate is UP since you went to single shots. Oh and the ILLEGAL importation of firearms by and to criminals is also up.

As says your discredited NRA who were kicked out of Australia years ago as UNDESIREABLES ........ after the buy back the crime rate with Guns went down.so your point was ???? steve

"


Gun control is designed to stop people from killing each other, at least that’s what we are always told. Let’s take a look at the data:

United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing.

Ireland: Ireland banned firearms in 1972. Ireland’s homicide rate was fairly static going all the way back to 1945. In that period, it fluctuated between 0.1 and 0.6 per 100,000 people. Immediately after the ban, the murder rate shot up to 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1975. It then dropped back down to 0.4. It has trended up, reaching 1.4 in 2007.

Australia: Australia enacted its gun ban in 1996. Murders have basically run flat, seeing only a small spike after the ban and then returning almost immediately to preban numbers. It is currently trending down, but is within the fluctuations exhibited in other nations.

Plain and simple. Gun control has no significant impact on murder rates. Removing firearms does not typically create massive lawlessness. It is a moot point. These figures aren’t a secret. Why would the governments of these nations want a disarmed populace? For the answer, it is best to look at a nation that has had long-time gun bans that is currently relaxing their laws. Russia recently relaxed its firearms laws. For the first time in recent memory, a Russian citizen can carry a firearm. The prohibited items speak volumes about what a government’s motive behind disarming the population is. Russia has allowed“smoothbore long barrelled guns, pistols, revolvers, and other firearms, as well as Tasers, and devices equipped with teargas.” That’s almost everything, what is still banned? Rifles. So the Russian government has made it clear that the real objective is to remove rifles from civilian hands. The reasoning is pretty clear: you need rifles to overthrow a government.

The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control

 

[TheOldSchool]

Cars accidentally are responsible for, 35,369 deaths.

Guns in 2013..... 505

Yet there are no calls for banning cars.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

So you want as many regulations for guns as there are for cars?

 

[2aguy]

Here are actual stats from the CDC on how people die.....compared to gun deaths.....

Gun accidental death in 2013....with over 320 million guns in private hands....

505.

And with that, those opposed to private gun ownership want all guns banned.....or made so exlusive only the rich and poltiically connected will have access to them....

Isn't that real fear?

So you think carrying a gun to the drug store will keep them from coming to confiscate your guns?

No.....it may just stop the robber from killing me or someone in the store........like they did in the Brown's chicken when they got 2,000 dollars and then murdered 7 people....right here in my neck of the woods...

Or like I just posted.....where the criminal murdered the clerk at the Jack in the Box....because he didn't lie down fast enough....


Or the woman who was hacked to death with a machete......

I think that maybe a gun could have stopped some or all of those events.......

 

[BULLDOG]

"We are constantly told that if you carry a gun you are afraid."

And that may very well be the case for some; for others, not.

Carrying a concealed firearm does not in of itself mean someone is afraid, but clearly there are those who indeed carry a gun because they are afraid.

Other than the fear of something bad happening to you, why would you carry one? A fashion statement?

Are you saying that crime never happens?

Crime does happen, but I don't cower in fear at the possibility.

 

[2aguy]

"We are constantly told that if you carry a gun you are afraid."

And that may very well be the case for some; for others, not.

Carrying a concealed firearm does not in of itself mean someone is afraid, but clearly there are those who indeed carry a gun because they are afraid.

Other than the fear of something bad happening to you, why would you carry one? A fashion statement?

A rational decision based on the reality that crime does happen to people...and that certain crimes can end a life or change it forever......like the woman who was raped in the parking lot, or the family that was murdered in Joe Biden's neighborhood, or the people murdered in obama's chicago neighborhood....

Right. You are constantly.afraid of something bad happening to you

Not really. I have my cell phone in case my car breaks down....am I afraid of that too....?

 

[DarkFury]

"Uh, hey bud, can you give me about 20 minutes to go home and get my gun, so I can defend myself?"

A situation you assume is bound to happen. Because you live in fear.

Sad.

You have health insurance?

Car insurance?

get an annual flu shot?

Spare tire in your car?

First aid kit in your house?

locks on your doors?

Do you have those because of fear?

or because you like to be prepared?

Not the same.

actually, it is.

No it's not. You don't take first aid kits into the grocery store.

Most stores at least the major ones have kits in their employee areas.

 

[BULLDOG]

Here are actual stats from the CDC on how people die.....compared to gun deaths.....

Gun accidental death in 2013....with over 320 million guns in private hands....

505.

And with that, those opposed to private gun ownership want all guns banned.....or made so exlusive only the rich and poltiically connected will have access to them....

Isn't that real fear?

So you think carrying a gun to the drug store will keep them from coming to confiscate your guns?

No.....it may just stop the robber from killing me or someone in the store........like they did in the Brown's chicken when they got 2,000 dollars and then murdered 7 people....right here in my neck of the woods...

Or like I just posted.....where the criminal murdered the clerk at the Jack in the Box....because he didn't lie down fast enough....


Or the woman who was hacked to death with a machete......

I think that maybe a gun could have stopped some or all of those events.......

Does that mean you want to be Batman, and protect your city? What superhero qualifications do you have other than a gun in your hand?

 

[2aguy]

"We are constantly told that if you carry a gun you are afraid."

And that may very well be the case for some; for others, not.

Carrying a concealed firearm does not in of itself mean someone is afraid, but clearly there are those who indeed carry a gun because they are afraid.

Other than the fear of something bad happening to you, why would you carry one? A fashion statement?

Are you saying that crime never happens?

Crime does happen, but I don't cower in fear at the possibility.

I don't either....but if I run into a criminal, attacking me or possibly someone else, like the woman hacked to death with the machete...I think I would have a better chance of stopping it than you would...(especially if there are more than one attacker...like the guy at the gas pump who was attacked by 3 guys, one with a gun....and he drove them off by shooting one of them, the other two ran off.......)

There wouldn't be much you could do since you would be unarmed........

 

[Auld Phart]

Thanks for showing everyone you have no rebuttal

My rebuttal, which needs to be explained to you it seems, is you're running around with a blindfold on.

Interesting

that's how your argument looks to me.

If you saw me in a store, you would have no idea if I was carrying or not.

but the fact I do carry scares you to death.

No it doesn't. It's your fantasies of gunning people down that's worrisome.

It's your fantasies of gunning people down that's worrisome.

No..

That's YOUR fantasy.

Take off the blindfold, get a glimpse of reality.

 

[theliq]

ALL GUNS ARE WRONG IN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY

So you would argue that a communist society IS a "civilized society?"

Australia...IS

You do know the crime rate is UP since you went to single shots. Oh and the ILLEGAL importation of firearms by and to criminals is also up.

As says your discredited NRA who were kicked out of Australia years ago as UNDESIREABLES ........ after the buy back the crime rate with Guns went down.so your point was ???? steve

"


Gun control is designed to stop people from killing each other, at least that’s what we are always told. Let’s take a look at the data:

United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing.

Ireland: Ireland banned firearms in 1972. Ireland’s homicide rate was fairly static going all the way back to 1945. In that period, it fluctuated between 0.1 and 0.6 per 100,000 people. Immediately after the ban, the murder rate shot up to 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1975. It then dropped back down to 0.4. It has trended up, reaching 1.4 in 2007.

Australia: Australia enacted its gun ban in 1996. Murders have basically run flat, seeing only a small spike after the ban and then returning almost immediately to preban numbers. It is currently trending down, but is within the fluctuations exhibited in other nations.

Plain and simple. Gun control has no significant impact on murder rates. Removing firearms does not typically create massive lawlessness. It is a moot point. These figures aren’t a secret. Why would the governments of these nations want a disarmed populace? For the answer, it is best to look at a nation that has had long-time gun bans that is currently relaxing their laws. Russia recently relaxed its firearms laws. For the first time in recent memory, a Russian citizen can carry a firearm. The prohibited items speak volumes about what a government’s motive behind disarming the population is. Russia has allowed“smoothbore long barrelled guns, pistols, revolvers, and other firearms, as well as Tasers, and devices equipped with teargas.” That’s almost everything, what is still banned? Rifles. So the Russian government has made it clear that the real objective is to remove rifles from civilian hands. The reasoning is pretty clear: you need rifles to overthrow a government.

The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control

Yep numbers of 20 years ago......who knows what it would have been without Gun Control....maybe the digusting figures the US has !!!!!!!! steve

 

[2aguy]

Cars accidentally are responsible for, 35,369 deaths.

Guns in 2013..... 505

Yet there are no calls for banning cars.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

So you want as many regulations for guns as there are for cars?

There are. You can't sell a defective gun.

If you do you can be sued and if it is criminal negligence you go to jail.

 

[Tuatara]

I usually stay out of the gun debates but I do recognise that both sides would like to see an end to the gun violence. It just happens that the answer for both are at opposite sides of the spectrum. There are stats available to help and hurt both sides. If we knew for sure that getting rid of all guns would help, I'm sure we would destroy them quickly as possible. If we knew for sure that more guns meant more protection, then we would all make many gun manufacturers very rich. We also know the problem goes beyond gun control. Mental, social, racial, cultural and economic issues hang in the balance also. We have to remember that all of us, want more than anything, for the violence to end.

 

[2aguy]

Here are actual stats from the CDC on how people die.....compared to gun deaths.....

Gun accidental death in 2013....with over 320 million guns in private hands....

505.

And with that, those opposed to private gun ownership want all guns banned.....or made so exlusive only the rich and poltiically connected will have access to them....

Isn't that real fear?

So you think carrying a gun to the drug store will keep them from coming to confiscate your guns?

No.....it may just stop the robber from killing me or someone in the store........like they did in the Brown's chicken when they got 2,000 dollars and then murdered 7 people....right here in my neck of the woods...

Or like I just posted.....where the criminal murdered the clerk at the Jack in the Box....because he didn't lie down fast enough....


Or the woman who was hacked to death with a machete......

I think that maybe a gun could have stopped some or all of those events.......

Does that mean you want to be Batman, and protect your city? What superhero qualifications do you have other than a gun in your hand?

Nope....I don't have the millions. Never said I would actually intervene...I would probably just use my cell phone.....but I will have that choice....you won't.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I think you spend your days hoping that you get the chance to use your guns. Which makes you an irresponsible gun owner.

What makes you think that? I show over and over that concealed carry laws reduce the violent crime rate and that most times a gun drives off criminals without it ever being drawn and if drawn, never being fired.......

No you don't. A lot of your posts are about countries with a far lower murder rate than the U.S.

Those countries have criminal sub cultures far less prone to murder each other than ours here in the United States.....they have easy access to guns too...they just don't use them to murder as often. And Britain....they had guns before the confiscation and they did not commit gun murder or mass shootings either....they had the same level of gun crime and mass shootings after the confiscation as before......their gun crime rate did not change......so it is culture, not access to guns that determine gun crime and gun murder.

You're engaging in wild speculation. And I thought we were passed your ridiculous use of periods? Are you drunk? This...... is not....... the............ way................ periods........ are supposed to be used.

Not wild speculation.....I have looked at the access to guns reported by their own law enforcement agencies...their criminals, both everyday and terrorists, can easily get fully automatic military rifles in countries where they are completely illegal, banned and they are not sold in gun stores, gun shows or between individuals....

yet their law abiding citizens can't get them at all......

Yep their monsters and criminals get those guns from gun-obsessed countries like the U.S. Good job 2aguy

 

[2aguy]

I usually stay out of the gun debates but I do recognise that both sides would like to see an end to the gun violence. It just happens that the answer for both are at opposite sides of the spectrum. There are stats available to help and hurt both sides. If we knew for sure that getting rid of all guns would help, I'm sure we would destroy them quickly as possible. If we knew for sure that more guns meant more protection, then we would all make many gun manufacturers very rich. We also know the problem goes beyond gun control. Mental, social, racial, cultural and economic issues hang in the balance also. We have to remember that all of us, want more than anything, for the violence to end.

You do realize that there was a long time in human history when guns were not even in existence....was that a particularly peaceful time? Were the weak treated particularly well by the strong?

 

[TheOldSchool]

A situation you assume is bound to happen. Because you live in fear.

Sad.

You have health insurance?

Car insurance?

get an annual flu shot?

Spare tire in your car?

First aid kit in your house?

locks on your doors?

Do you have those because of fear?

or because you like to be prepared?

Not the same.

actually, it is.

No it's not. You don't take first aid kits into the grocery store.

Most stores at least the major ones have kits in their employee areas.

So not "most" stores.

 

[2aguy]

What makes you think that? I show over and over that concealed carry laws reduce the violent crime rate and that most times a gun drives off criminals without it ever being drawn and if drawn, never being fired.......

No you don't. A lot of your posts are about countries with a far lower murder rate than the U.S.

Those countries have criminal sub cultures far less prone to murder each other than ours here in the United States.....they have easy access to guns too...they just don't use them to murder as often. And Britain....they had guns before the confiscation and they did not commit gun murder or mass shootings either....they had the same level of gun crime and mass shootings after the confiscation as before......their gun crime rate did not change......so it is culture, not access to guns that determine gun crime and gun murder.

You're engaging in wild speculation. And I thought we were passed your ridiculous use of periods? Are you drunk? This...... is not....... the............ way................ periods........ are supposed to be used.

Not wild speculation.....I have looked at the access to guns reported by their own law enforcement agencies...their criminals, both everyday and terrorists, can easily get fully automatic military rifles in countries where they are completely illegal, banned and they are not sold in gun stores, gun shows or between individuals....

yet their law abiding citizens can't get them at all......

Yep their monsters and criminals get those guns from gun-obsessed countries like the U.S. Good job 2aguy

Nope.....mainly from China, Russia, and the rest of Europe........

 

[emilynghiem]

this is in the CDZ because it gets a little old when some start talking sex organs and guns.....

soooo....

We are constantly told that if you carry a gun you are afraid.

Is this true.

No.

Carrying a gun for self defense is a rational response to the reality that even though I know where I live is ver safe, there are still criminals out there and that you never know when one will target you. These things happen every day, in every state, in every country.

How much fear goes into carrying a gun...for me....there is about as much emotion to carrying a gun as there is carrying my cell phone.

Now....the other side...the one that is constantly accusing my side of being afraid.....I believe that fear is what they feel....especially about guns. The don't like people, but they hate guns in the hands of people.

For example.

There are over 3,700,000 AR-15s in private hands in this country.

Each year maybe, maybe, 2-3 are used in any type of crime or even a mass shooting.

With those numbers, those who I believe fear guns want all AR-15s banned from private hands. To me, that is real fear. The numbers show that the odds of being a victim of a violent attack by an attacker with an AR-15 are so remote...you would actually have more of a chance of running into Big Foot and Elvis having Lunch with Aliens.....

And yet, they call for all AR-15s and other rifles like it to be completely banned.

And yet even if AR-15s are completely banned, there is not one crime that is committed on those rare occasions where an AR-15 is used that cannot be done to the same effect with a pistol, shot gun or other rifle or a combination of those......

Yet we are called scaredy cats for wearing a gun like we wear a cell phone or buckle our seat belts.

To a rational person....who sounds more afraid of guns...who sounds more filled with actual fear...?

ALL GUNS ARE WRONG IN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY

Dear theliq
I would agree with you that the purpose and best use of arms
is for defense and deterrence, where ideally they don't have to be used at all.

I have met many police and peace officers who carry guns for dangerous situations that may require that,
but they don't depend on that, and do most of their deterrence and police work
by breaking up confrontations or preventing them completely CIVILLY.

You are right, for the most part the guns are not used but are there so they won't have to be!
That's the way it should be.

However, can you show a me a civilized society
that didn't still have criminally aggressive people who were effectively deterred by police carrying guns?

Because society and people aren't perfect, and there are still criminal people who
don't get help in advance, but are only discovered after they cause threats or problems to people,
then guns are still necessary in case of emergencies.

As we progress, and we can diagnose treat and cure the causes of criminal illness and behavior,
we can do more and more of the correctional work in advance and by civil means.

We won't have to rely so much on the point of confrontation with police,
or wait until after someone has stalked and killed people and is going to prison
BEFORE we get sick people help at the first sign of criminal abuse or dangerous addiction.

Until then, guns are still necessary, but in the right hands
of trained officers, they won't necessarily need to be used.