Faith is Born from Fear

[M.D. Rawlings]

I would challenge anyone demanding proof of a god's existence to provide similar proof of their own existence. Not the existence of their body, or even their brain, but proof that the thing they refer to when they say "I" actually exists.

Do anyone else

All religions have their genesis in fear.

I don't think that's true. Familar with some ancient Greek and Roman sects where fear is not what first comes to mind.

Gods are a human construct to deal with fear of the unknown.

Right.

The idea of God isn't at the base of human knowledge touching on the concerns of ontological origination. The inescapable fact of human cognition is a mere illusion. So tell me, in truth, what precisely are you denying first? The existence of God or the existence of the universally apparent, objectively self-subsistent construct?

Right.

Like every time you open your mouth to deny the existence of God you don't as a matter of necessity acknowledge the fact that the idea exists in and of itself, i.e., imposes itself on the human mind without the same willing that it do so.

Here's the real truth: atheism is the irrationalism of the unexamined mind, i.e., the stuff of an unexamined life with an attention span of a two-year-old. And all the silly statements I'm reading on this thread regarding the essence of that construct and those confounding the potentialities of the various revelations alleged to come from the God of nature follow from this very same kind of underdeveloped attention span.

Like being gay, it takes a lot to come out of the closet and say you don't believe in god. Sorry, can't fake it. If we don't believe it doesn't make us bad people we just don't buy your stories. What religion are you? If you are a christian, do you believe the Muslim stories? How about the Mormon stories?

So you and I are both atheists. You just believe in one more god than I do.

Telling me that an atheist doesn't believe that God exists is not telling me anything profound. However, telling me that theism is predicated on fear or sheer faith is silly. Theism, in and of itself, is predicated on reason. As I have irrefutably shown, atheism is predicated on sheer faith in defiance of reason. Objectively speaking, if atheism is true, it's true in spite of the ramifications of sound reasoning.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

Sorry. Tele-evangelists are too numerous to count.

not really.....there are likely fewer than a hundred.....

As a self-entitled "prophet", you have a career opportunity.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

Theism is also a leaned behavior, religion is no different than anything else created by man – language, social mores, cultural values – one is taught religion the same he is taught to speak and read a language, a process that starts very early in life.

In other words, God doesn't exist. Zoom! Right over your head.

See posts #336 and #340.

Platitudes are not arguments, Clayton.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Some theists will reply that they were not brainwashed as kids. Some of them found Jesus in their 20's when they were adults. I say that is still an age where young men and women are very gullible and easily convinced with fear.

Or they'll say they were raised by Christians and they decided to become Muslim.

How did Sammy Davis Jr. become a Jew?

Anyways, what do you say about the people who are born into one faith but find another religion? These people fascinate me. I can't imagine what they read in the Koran or what they heard about the Mormon faith that convinced them.

I guess I can see it. I once thought maybe the Jews had it right. And I like the Mormon schtick. God told Joseph Smith in 1800 that all the other religions were bogus and to start his own a new religion called Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints. Brilliant new angle! I too think the other religions are all bullshit. I just think so is the Mormon faith too.

How can one be born into a faith? Were you born a Democrat?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Like being gay, it takes a lot to come out of the closet and say you don't believe in god. Sorry, can't fake it. If we don't believe it doesn't make us bad people we just don't buy your stories. What religion are you? If you are a christian, do you believe the Muslim stories? How about the Mormon stories?

So you and I are both atheists. You just believe in one more god than I do.

Funny, I never had any trouble telling people I didn't believe in God. I guess some people are just afraid, and others are willing to stand up for their beliefs no matter what. Maybe the fact that you were a coward most of your life explains why you think faith is based on fear when it is the opposite of fear.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

Sorry. Tele-evangelists are too numerous to count.

not really.....there are likely fewer than a hundred.....

As a self-entitled "prophet", you have a career opportunity.

unbranded denim is the new sackcloth......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Some theists will reply that they were not brainwashed as kids. Some of them found Jesus in their 20's when they were adults. I say that is still an age where young men and women are very gullible and easily convinced with fear.

Or they'll say they were raised by Christians and they decided to become Muslim.

How did Sammy Davis Jr. become a Jew?

Anyways, what do you say about the people who are born into one faith but find another religion? These people fascinate me. I can't imagine what they read in the Koran or what they heard about the Mormon faith that convinced them.

I guess I can see it. I once thought maybe the Jews had it right. And I like the Mormon schtick. God told Joseph Smith in 1800 that all the other religions were bogus and to start his own a new religion called Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints. Brilliant new angle! I too think the other religions are all bullshit. I just think so is the Mormon faith too.

How can one be born into a faith? Were you born a Democrat?

no, he was born an atheist.....oh wait, I believe he said Greek Orthodox.......did he just disprove his own theory?.....

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Like being gay, it takes a lot to come out of the closet and say you don't believe in god. Sorry, can't fake it. If we don't believe it doesn't make us bad people we just don't buy your stories. What religion are you? If you are a christian, do you believe the Muslim stories? How about the Mormon stories?

So you and I are both atheists. You just believe in one more god than I do.

Funny, I never had any trouble telling people I didn't believe in God. I guess some people are just afraid, and others are willing to stand up for their beliefs no matter what. Maybe the fact that you were a coward most of your life explains why you think faith is based on fear when it is the opposite of fear.

Now, see, this is the kind a thing a man can respect. All that other stuff, sniveling about fear and such, as if conviction were a disease, well, it gives the rest of us, regardless of which way a man swings on the question, indigestion.

 

[PostmodernProph]

So you and I are both atheists. You just believe in one more god than I do.

I would like to go on record as saying this is one of the lamest arguments that atheists ever came up with.....like you, I chose to believe what I believe.....

 

[MaxGrit]

But I don't even believe that any such person ever existed.

Remember that you have to occasionally check the accuracy of your own knowledge. Human beings make many mistakes and we learn best from our mistakes.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, that's the experience of so many of you thumpers. These charlatans you worship don't get rich and powerful from fleecing the non-believers, they get rich and powerful from fleecing the slack-jawed.

sorry, you must have be confused with someone who worships a tele-evangelist.....not surprising....you're confused about most things....

Sorry. Tele-evangelists are too numerous to count.

not really.....there are likely fewer than a hundred.....

As a self-entitled "prophet", you have a career opportunity.

unbranded denim is the new sackcloth......

Pointlessness is still in fashion regarding your attempts at communication.

 

[turzovka]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

[ They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. ]

II am not afraid to ask myself that question, I am just afraid of the answer, i.e. that would be an untold horror ceasing to exist forever. And if I held that opinion that there probably is no God I would surely go mad.

But as a well-informed Christian, I can assure I am well beyond that question for I am certain it is totally hypothetical and the evidence against it has rendered it moot. On the other hand, it truly must be a nervy way to live thinking or believing it will soon be all over forever. No, there is no comfort in that.

I cannot begin to explain to myself how intelligent minds cannot see the 1) absolute need for a higher being for life to exist, 2) how they can also dismiss a host of supernatural phenomena over history. I mean, how many miracles does it take to defeat the proposition "there is no God?"

 

[AtheistBuddah]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

[ They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. ]

II am not afraid to ask myself that question, I am just afraid of the answer, i.e. that would be an untold horror ceasing to exist forever. And if I held that opinion that there probably is no God I would surely go mad.

But as a well-informed Christian, I can assure I am well beyond that question for I am certain it is totally hypothetical and the evidence against it has rendered it moot. On the other hand, it truly must be a nervy way to live thinking or believing it will soon be all over forever. No, there is no comfort in that.

I cannot begin to explain to myself how intelligent minds cannot see the 1) absolute need for a higher being for life to exist, 2) how they can also dismiss a host of supernatural phenomena over history. I mean, how many miracles does it take to defeat the proposition "there is no God?"

You just admitted that your opinion is formed by starting from a point of fear based bias and then working forward to a conclusion that helps you sleep at night. You just confirmed what I said in the op making everything you said against it moot. I swear sometimes getting on this site and debating Christians is like a Jedi fighting a quadriplegic, it just isn't fair lol.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

But I don't even believe that any such person ever existed.

Remember that you have to occasionally check the accuracy of your own knowledge. Human beings make many mistakes and we learn best from our mistakes.

I agree with the sentiment of that statement I do, but still, does it seem fair to be expected to live by the tenets of a religion that I think is fake? What if Scientologists were getting laws passed that forced their views on everyone.

 

[Hollie]

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

[ They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. ]

II am not afraid to ask myself that question, I am just afraid of the answer, i.e. that would be an untold horror ceasing to exist forever. And if I held that opinion that there probably is no God I would surely go mad.

But as a well-informed Christian, I can assure I am well beyond that question for I am certain it is totally hypothetical and the evidence against it has rendered it moot. On the other hand, it truly must be a nervy way to live thinking or believing it will soon be all over forever. No, there is no comfort in that.

I cannot begin to explain to myself how intelligent minds cannot see the 1) absolute need for a higher being for life to exist, 2) how they can also dismiss a host of supernatural phenomena over history. I mean, how many miracles does it take to defeat the proposition "there is no God?"

It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.

As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.

[ They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. ]

II am not afraid to ask myself that question, I am just afraid of the answer, i.e. that would be an untold horror ceasing to exist forever. And if I held that opinion that there probably is no God I would surely go mad.

But as a well-informed Christian, I can assure I am well beyond that question for I am certain it is totally hypothetical and the evidence against it has rendered it moot. On the other hand, it truly must be a nervy way to live thinking or believing it will soon be all over forever. No, there is no comfort in that.

I cannot begin to explain to myself how intelligent minds cannot see the 1) absolute need for a higher being for life to exist, 2) how they can also dismiss a host of supernatural phenomena over history. I mean, how many miracles does it take to defeat the proposition "there is no God?"

What "miracles" are you suggesting will support you religious belief? I'm not aware of a single, verifiable "miracle" that can be connected to your gods.

Ultimately, "miracles" are for those who are unable to accept reality and thus shelter themselves in a world of fear and superstition. You will say that a lot of events happened purely as an intervention of your gods, i.e., via an undemonstrated series of miracles and supernatural events, all unsubstantiated, all unproven, all categorically denied by mountains of evidence to the contrary. Yet, you will believe in some notion of an infallible series of bibles that contained numerous errors and outright contradictions.

Sorry if the above sounds harsh but Theism is not science, because it relies completely on miraculous interventions (floods, miracles and the creation itself, not to mention just about all the rest of the book(s))-- things that cannot be used in the formulation of a scientific theory. Since miraculous events cannot be tested, repeated, nor can the processes by which they operate be described, they must be taken on faith. Theism is an expression of religious belief-- not science. There is a huge difference.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

You just made the claim. You said you talk to a god.

No I didn't, I repeated your claim that the God I talk to does not exist, and asked you to prove it.

But you just admitted that you talk to a supernatural being. That's a positive claim.

 

[indiajo]

[ Theism, in and of itself, is predicated on reason.

Woah, that's a good one. Like, eating cornflakes prevents you from masturbating.

 

[Hollie]

[ Theism, in and of itself, is predicated on reason.

Woah, that's a good one. Like, eating cornflakes prevents you from masturbating.

Talking snakes and eternal damnation for fruit theft sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree with the sentiment of that statement I do, but still, does it seem fair to be expected to live by the tenets of a religion that I think is fake? What if Scientologists were getting laws passed that forced their views on everyone.

Is it fair to declare that the religion you refuse to believe in is the only religion that exists? Is it remotely possible that, if you actually sat down and talked to someone who understands their own beliefs, and all the arguments both for and against their beliefs, you might find yourself admitting you are wrong?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But you just admitted that you talk to a supernatural being. That's a positive claim.

Funny, I don't recall using the word supernatural, maybe you are confusing me with those voices in your head. Even if I did, it is not actually a positive claim, it is just me saying I talk. The only way you can insist I made a claim is if I also claimed that my talking produces positive results. Since I did not say that, all you have is me talking to myself.

You, on the other hand, have made claims. Can you prove them or not?