F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[SteadyMercury]

Avalanche of evidence this plane is garbage but like the warmists you cling to your faith. Several hundred billion down the toilet without even one fully functional plane.

Interesting when "avalanche of evidence" of this gun thing is anonymous sources in an article in a tabloid that is quoting another article from the Daily Beast.

It has nothing to do with being a "warmist" (whatever that means) it has to do with being skeptical of people who have a conclusion they are chasing hard enough that they say illogical things and only believe that supports their agenda.

Here is another quote from the source:

and while that gun-pod version for the Navy and Marines carries slightly more ammo, with 220 rounds, some in the military are complaining that it’s not enough. “So, about good for one tactical burst,” the first Air Force official said. “

Hah hah what kind of made up shit is that? A single 220 round burst?

F-35 has more ammo than most other modern fighters including Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter, MIG-29, Su-27 etc. yet somehow this has now become not enough ammo?

Just retards with agendas not making any sense.

More from your source:

The lack of a cannon is a particular problem, as the F-35 is being counted on to help out infantrymen under fire. (This is known as close air support, or CAS, in military jargon.) The F-35 will lack the ability to mark a target or attack enemy forces in “danger close” situations, said one highly experienced Air Force fighter pilot.

“Lack of forward firing ordnance in a CAS supporting aircraft is a major handicap,” he added. “CAS fights are more fluid than air interdiction, friendlies and targets move... Oftentimes quickly. The ability to mark the target with rockets and attack the same target 10 seconds later is crucial.”

Typically, aircraft will work in pairs where the flight lead will make an initial pass to mark a target with rockets. A second aircraft will then attack with its guns. Incidentally, the F-35 won’t be armed with rockets, either, sources told The Daily Beast.

Lol so CAS is gunfire and marking targets with rockets? Do you really believe that is how modern CAS works? Two planes with first marking targets with rockets before second sweeps in to strafe?

 

[Discombobulated]

Loved the European Debut at this summer's Farnborough Air Show where it was hoped at least 90 orders would be placed by NATO members.

Here's a photo:

View attachment 35557
Nope.

NOT that stealthy.

Just a no-show.

No orders, either.

Wrong, deliveries have been under way for a couple of years, the F-35 is operational.

United Kingdom F-35 F-35 Lightning II

 

[HenryBHough]

Loved the European Debut at this summer's Farnborough Air Show where it was hoped at least 90 orders would be placed by NATO members.

Here's a photo:

View attachment 35557
Nope.

NOT that stealthy.

Just a no-show.

No orders, either.

Wrong, deliveries have been under way for a couple of years, the F-35 is operational.

United Kingdom F-35 F-35 Lightning II

Yup.

Operational when they're not grounded because of he discovery of yet another fatal flaw.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Wow you don't understand what a fatal flaw is do you?

Hint = When a defect is found on early production aircraft that is fixed within a few weeks, it isn't a fatal flaw.

 

[HenryBHough]

The empty sky at Farnborough was fantastic. The empty sales suite at Lockheed? Not so much.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I can't believe a someone really thinks it showing up at that air show is what intl sales of the fighter hinges on, as if some general from Cameroon is going to say shit I was thinking about buying a dozen of these 120 million dollar planes but since I couldn't see it at the air show the deal is off.

Pretty much what I mentioned earlier about the bizarre doggedly irrational logic of people who've made up their minds this plane is no good.

Exactly which country do you believe changed their mind about the plane at this air show?

 

[HenryBHough]

No-show at the world's largest sales venue for aircraft is proof the poor overtsuffed bird is NOT ready for prime time.

But keep on believing.

Meanwhile the French and "European" military companies smile along with you though for different reason.

 

[Discombobulated]

Loved the European Debut at this summer's Farnborough Air Show where it was hoped at least 90 orders would be placed by NATO members.

Here's a photo:

View attachment 35557
Nope.

NOT that stealthy.

Just a no-show.

No orders, either.

Wrong, deliveries have been under way for a couple of years, the F-35 is operational.

United Kingdom F-35 F-35 Lightning II

Yup.

Operational when they're not grounded because of he discovery of yet another fatal flaw.

Your information is out of date.

 

[HenryBHough]

You don't like December sales figures?

 

[SteadyMercury]

No-show at the world's largest sales venue for aircraft is proof the poor overtsuffed bird is NOT ready for prime time.

Yep it is not ready, I think IOC for B variant is end of 2015.

So again, you implied sales suffered because of this and must have missed my question. Which country decided not to buy the F-35 because of this air show?

 

[HenryBHough]

Nations do not announce they're NOT buying something. Manufacturers do not announce non-orders. But they also do not report them even though thty were hoping and expecting.

But your faith is charming and I'm sure America will continue going down this sad path.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Nations do not announce they're NOT buying something. Manufacturers do not announce non-orders. But they also do not report them even though thty were hoping and expecting.

So in other words despite all your harping on this air show and the alleged empty sales suite you really have no facts to go on at all, just banging your gums. This goes back to what I said about rabid opponents of the F-35 program, you fit right in.

But your faith is charming and I'm sure America will continue going down this sad path.

Faith in what? I've not professed faith in anything, I've just got a healthy dose of skepticism for people like you who are more interested in there agenda than facts.

If you want to talk about F-35 combat capabilities fine, want to discuss the price, the delays in development, what countries have publicly committed to it, etc. let's do it, but it appears you're content to make sweeping criticisms that when pushed to present actual facts you've got nothing more than saying who knows since it isn't publicly announced.

Typical.

 

[HenryBHough]

Keep on believing.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Believing what? You can't even muster the IQ to generate any sort of response directed at anything I've actually said.

Here I'll save you the trouble of firing all eight synapses in that sand flea brain of yours: hey Steady keep believing!

 

[Manonthestreet]

Loved the European Debut at this summer's Farnborough Air Show where it was hoped at least 90 orders would be placed by NATO members.

Here's a photo:

View attachment 35557
Nope.

NOT that stealthy.

Just a no-show.

No orders, either.

Wrong, deliveries have been under way for a couple of years, the F-35 is operational.

United Kingdom F-35 F-35 Lightning II

F-35 is not operational...only missions being flown are testing

 

[SteadyMercury]

They've slipped the IOC at least three times.

Last I heard the earliest ICO is for the Marines B-model in late 2015 because with the 2B software will have everything their AV-8Bs could do for basic interdiction with JDAMs and Paveways plus will have the AMRAAMs.

Air Force and Navy are waiting because they need more than a faster harrier, I think 2016 for USAF and 2018 for USN but I'm not sure. Whatever they are saying now of course doesn't matter it'll probably slip again for AF and Navy, while the Marines being Marines will say fuck it and fly it anyway.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Not stealthy, no supercruise ergo not fifth generation fighter.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Heh heh and that is more of what I'm talking about, the anti-F35 people will happily regurgitate nonsensical talking points. Both "stealthy" and "supercruise" have no set quantifiable definition, so it is impossible to support your claim.

F-35 is by anyone's definition a low-observable aircraft, the only combat aircraft with a smaller radar signature are F-22 and B-2. The low radar cross section combined with infrared reduction make it a stealth aircraft in my opinion. The commander of Air Combat Command recently stated the F-35s radar signature was in fact smaller than the F-22, something I don't believe but it definitely shits all over your silly not stealthy claim.

Regarding supercruise the F-35 can maintain mach 1.2 for 150 miles without afterburners. If you accept the definition of supercruise as sustained supersonic flight with meaningful cargo then it has supercruise. Again, matter for debate but it makes it hard for you to make an absolute statement it cannot unless you want to start putting parameters on sustained or cargo.

 

[HenryBHough]

The F35 is a beautiful airplane. It'll look good on concrete plinths in parks all over America though what it says on the brass plaques attached to them may not go over so well with believers.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Your ability to argue without presenting any useful information is hilarious keep it up.