Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[Foxfyre]

Food will not be the only price that rises... This just recalculates 'bottom'.. the poor will still be poor with just higher numbers of less valuable money

Yes. And so far, raising the minimum wage has only INCREASED the numbers of people on welfare. I haven't seen any statistics anywhere except in very short term regional areas, in which raising the minimum wage reduced the number of people receiving public assistance.

What did reduce the number of people on public assistance was limiting the length of time people were allowed to be on it. In my opinion requiring work for welfare - either get a paying job or do community service in return for the welfare check--along with policy and regulation to encourage economic growth rather than inhibit it as is happening now--would eliminate all welfare other than the most hard core needy who are literally unable to help themselves.

People who are demanding a higher minimum wage are like children spoiled on sugar. No matter how much they get, the need for it is insatiable, unquenchable.

Having lived during times that we had a whole lot of week left after the paycheck ran out, and working two, sometimes three jobs to keep the wolf from the door, nobody knows better what a living wage means than I do. I still remember when we were able to open our first savings account because we finally had a little left over after paying the bills and buying groceries. It is a great, freeing, liberating experience. I'm sure not knocking it.

But the fact remains that every dollar of wages mandated by the government comes out of somebody's pocket. Either that somebody just eats the expense and accepts a reduced income for themselves or they pass the cost along. Earned wages are rarely inflationary because they take nothing from the economy but rather add to it. Unearned wages are always inflationary because they take from the economy more than they can ever add to it.

And welfare is even worse. Every dollar the government distributes represents approximately three dollars drained from the economy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if you're only getting $1 of value when you spend $3, you're going to go broke pretty fast.

 

[JRK]

Yes. And so far, raising the minimum wage has only INCREASED the numbers of people on welfare. I haven't seen any statistics anywhere except in very short term regional areas, in which raising the minimum wage reduced the number of people receiving public assistance.

What did reduce the number of people on public assistance was limiting the length of time people were allowed to be on it. In my opinion requiring work for welfare - either get a paying job or do community service in return for the welfare check--along with policy and regulation to encourage economic growth rather than inhibit it as is happening now--would eliminate all welfare other than the most hard core needy who are literally unable to help themselves.

People who are demanding a higher minimum wage are like children spoiled on sugar. No matter how much they get, the need for it is insatiable, unquenchable.

Having lived during times that we had a whole lot of week left after the paycheck ran out, and working two, sometimes three jobs to keep the wolf from the door, nobody knows better what a living wage means than I do. I still remember when we were able to open our first savings account because we finally had a little left over after paying the bills and buying groceries. It is a great, freeing, liberating experience. I'm sure not knocking it.

But the fact remains that every dollar of wages mandated by the government comes out of somebody's pocket. Either that somebody just eats the expense and accepts a reduced income for themselves or they pass the cost along. Earned wages are rarely inflationary because they take nothing from the economy but rather add to it. Unearned wages are always inflationary because they take from the economy more than they can ever add to it.

And welfare is even worse. Every dollar the government distributes represents approximately three dollars drained from the economy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if you're only getting $1 of value when you spend $3, you're going to go broke pretty fast.

I concur
but every dollar of welfare as well as medicade, medicare is the same
There is no such of a thing as corporate tax. the consumer pays for it

why not make them earn it

I have been beyond broke with only gods word left as hope. I to know what you mean

 

[zeke]

People who are demanding a higher minimum wage are like children spoiled on sugar. No matter how much they get, the need for it is insatiable, unquenchable.

Having lived during times that we had a whole lot of week left after the paycheck ran out, and working two, sometimes three jobs to keep the wolf from the door, nobody knows better what a living wage means than I do. I still remember when we were able to open our first savings account because we finally had a little left over after paying the bills and buying groceries. It is a great, freeing, liberating experience. I'm sure not knocking it.

But the fact remains that every dollar of wages mandated by the government comes out of somebody's pocket. Either that somebody just eats the expense and accepts a reduced income for themselves or they pass the cost along. Earned wages are rarely inflationary because they take nothing from the economy but rather add to it. Unearned wages are always inflationary because they take from the economy more than they can ever add to it.

And welfare is even worse. Every dollar the government distributes represents approximately three dollars drained from the economy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if you're only getting $1 of value when you spend $3, you're going to go broke pretty fast.

I concur
but every dollar of welfare as well as medicade, medicare is the same
There is no such of a thing as corporate tax. the consumer pays for it

why not make them earn it

I have been beyond broke with only gods word left as hope. I to know what you mean

What are "unearned wages"?. Never heard of them before. I always thought if you worked you got paid. But now I learn that, evidentally, there are some companies that pay "unearned wages". What company would that be?

 

[JRK]

Having lived during times that we had a whole lot of week left after the paycheck ran out, and working two, sometimes three jobs to keep the wolf from the door, nobody knows better what a living wage means than I do. I still remember when we were able to open our first savings account because we finally had a little left over after paying the bills and buying groceries. It is a great, freeing, liberating experience. I'm sure not knocking it.

But the fact remains that every dollar of wages mandated by the government comes out of somebody's pocket. Either that somebody just eats the expense and accepts a reduced income for themselves or they pass the cost along. Earned wages are rarely inflationary because they take nothing from the economy but rather add to it. Unearned wages are always inflationary because they take from the economy more than they can ever add to it.

And welfare is even worse. Every dollar the government distributes represents approximately three dollars drained from the economy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if you're only getting $1 of value when you spend $3, you're going to go broke pretty fast.

I concur
but every dollar of welfare as well as medicade, medicare is the same
There is no such of a thing as corporate tax. the consumer pays for it

why not make them earn it

I have been beyond broke with only gods word left as hope. I to know what you mean

What are "unearned wages"?. Never heard of them before. I always thought if you worked you got paid. But now I learn that, evidentally, there are some companies that pay "unearned wages". What company would that be?

The US govt
it is just the way one would look at the term
as I read his thread, well I should not judge some-elses use of words
my claim is simple
if you show up on time
do an honest days work
I have no issue paying 4.00 for a big mac so they can pay there people what is about 13.65 an hour to get them off of govt programs
that wage would include any perks such as Ins or match going into a 401 k

we would eliminate 100s of billions of dollars from entitlement programs
we would in return adjust the tax that corporation would pay to off set the additional wage

 

[zeke]

Do you know what "unearned wages" are? I couldn't tell from your response.

Or were you saying that government workers don't earn their wages? That would be incorrect.

Hey what did you think about Goodwill Industries paying some of the mentally handicapped pennies on the hour. All the while Goodwill execs make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Is this not great or what? And Goodwill does these neat time studies on the workers and if they are a little slow that day, their pay gets decreased. If they are having a good day, they might get an increase. Some of their workers make as much as 7.25 an hour. Some as little as .22 cents.

Sounds like Goodwill should lead the way in how to pay low skill workers.

 

[DiamondDave]

I have no issue paying 4.00 for a big mac so they can pay there people what is about 13.65 an hour to get them off of govt programs
that wage would include any perks such as Ins or match going into a 401 k

we would eliminate 100s of billions of dollars from entitlement programs
we would in return adjust the tax that corporation would pay to off set the additional wage

Again.. you refuse to acknowledge the fact that raising the floor also raises wages across the board.. and prices across the board also rise... the manager who was earning $13.50 an hour to manager the $7.75 an hour employee is not going to be satisfied making the same amount as the one he/she is managing... The $9.00 an hour warehouse worker is still going to want to earn more than the 18 year old burger flipper.... it spreads like wildfire... and the prices rise and the 'poor' still remain poor just at a differing number level in terms of dollars... the raising of the minimum wage like that accomplishes NOTHING

 

[JRK]

I have no issue paying 4.00 for a big mac so they can pay there people what is about 13.65 an hour to get them off of govt programs
that wage would include any perks such as Ins or match going into a 401 k

we would eliminate 100s of billions of dollars from entitlement programs
we would in return adjust the tax that corporation would pay to off set the additional wage

Again.. you refuse to acknowledge the fact that raising the floor also raises wages across the board.. and prices across the board also rise... the manager who was earning $13.50 an hour to manager the $7.75 an hour employee is not going to be satisfied making the same amount as the one he/she is managing... The $9.00 an hour warehouse worker is still going to want to earn more than the 18 year old burger flipper.... it spreads like wildfire... and the prices rise and the 'poor' still remain poor just at a differing number level in terms of dollars... the raising of the minimum wage like that accomplishes NOTHING

In my business to manage 8 people gets you 1 dollar per hour more than the some of those those you manage

A shift Mgr @ wendys managing 8 people make 12.02 an hour (25k a year) the number I came up with as removing 35-50% from welfare should be happy making 14?
I say this again
either we send it via tax dollars
or
we send it through the purchase of or the use of a service provided by that employer paying those wages

 

[DiamondDave]

I have no issue paying 4.00 for a big mac so they can pay there people what is about 13.65 an hour to get them off of govt programs
that wage would include any perks such as Ins or match going into a 401 k

we would eliminate 100s of billions of dollars from entitlement programs
we would in return adjust the tax that corporation would pay to off set the additional wage

Again.. you refuse to acknowledge the fact that raising the floor also raises wages across the board.. and prices across the board also rise... the manager who was earning $13.50 an hour to manager the $7.75 an hour employee is not going to be satisfied making the same amount as the one he/she is managing... The $9.00 an hour warehouse worker is still going to want to earn more than the 18 year old burger flipper.... it spreads like wildfire... and the prices rise and the 'poor' still remain poor just at a differing number level in terms of dollars... the raising of the minimum wage like that accomplishes NOTHING

In my business to manage 8 people gets you 1 dollar per hour more than the some of those those you manage

A shift Mgr @ wendys managing 8 people make 12.02 an hour (25k a year) the number I came up with as removing 35-50% from welfare should be happy making 14?
I say this again
either we send it via tax dollars
or
we send it through the purchase of or the use of a service provided by that employer paying those wages

No.. we don't have to send it via tax dollars in any case.. this is yet another of your flaws.. you act like this MUST be done.. no.. what MUST be done is if a person needs more to meet their needs, they work more to do it

In our area, and with one of my neighbors who is a manager over people at a craft store.. She has employees at or close to minimum wage.. she makes something like $11.50 an hour...not only will she and the minimum wage employees have to be raised.. it SPREADS.. again.. now warehouse workers who are used to getting $5 an hour more than burger flippers do not want to go to making the same as a burger flipper... an entry level PC repair person who normally makes 2.5 times minimum wage is not going to be satisfied only makes $2-$3 more an hour than a burger flipper... The gas pump repair person makes $10 an hour more than the entry level IT person, when the IT person gets raised will they settle for making the same or less than the IT person??.... You think it stops with just those at the lowest level... it does not.. raising the minimum wage like this does nothing more than shift the floor while keeping the same slope that separates position, ability and achievement... you will have just as many in poverty where poverty is defined with just a higher number of dollars... raising the floor does not eliminate ANYTHING from poverty

 

[Foxfyre]

Do you know what "unearned wages" are? I couldn't tell from your response.

Or were you saying that government workers don't earn their wages? That would be incorrect.

Hey what did you think about Goodwill Industries paying some of the mentally handicapped pennies on the hour. All the while Goodwill execs make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Is this not great or what? And Goodwill does these neat time studies on the workers and if they are a little slow that day, their pay gets decreased. If they are having a good day, they might get an increase. Some of their workers make as much as 7.25 an hour. Some as little as .22 cents.

Sounds like Goodwill should lead the way in how to pay low skill workers.

I agree that some,not all, government employees earn their wages. The hard working country clerk, the guys who are out there in all kinds of weather picking up my trash, the folks who keep the water and sewer plant working, the guys who patch the potholes in the street--when they put in an honest day's work for an honest day's wages, they are absolutely earning their wages. And certainly the men and women in the military who at any hour could be called to put their lives on the line for their country are earning their wages.

Unearned wages are those paid that return no value to those paying them.

The competent burger joint manager calculates the maximum amount he can charge for his product that generates the maximum amount of revenues from which he must subtract his costs for infrastructure and equipment, both direct costs and depreciation, his costs for inventory and necessary supplies, license, taxes, insurance, etc. and labor. Income less all his expenses of doing business equals his profit.

His labor costs will be what entry level people are willing to work for plus what they become worth to him as they acquire experience and are able to independently handle more functions and therefore earn him more profits. The competent owner/manager arrives at the ideal mix of price versus expense to achieve maximum profits. When he reaches that point he generally looks to expand either his existing facility or open up more locations. In each case he provides more people opportunity to work.

But throw an artificially mandated wage into that mix and the whole formula becomes shaky. Either the owner takes the loss in profits or he must raise his prices which can cost him business because he was already at the maximum he could charge and have the maximum number of people buy his product. He minimizes his losses by cutting hours and/or benefits of his employees, hires fewer trainees, and/or raising his prices a small bit on the theory his competitors will have to do that too. Of course those small price increases all across the land also diminish the buying power of everybody which cuts into any benefit to the employees of the raises.

Wages that do not return a value to the one paying them are unearned wages. The more unearned wages there are, the fewer opportunities for earned wages there will be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Having lived during times that we had a whole lot of week left after the paycheck ran out, and working two, sometimes three jobs to keep the wolf from the door, nobody knows better what a living wage means than I do. I still remember when we were able to open our first savings account because we finally had a little left over after paying the bills and buying groceries. It is a great, freeing, liberating experience. I'm sure not knocking it.

But the fact remains that every dollar of wages mandated by the government comes out of somebody's pocket. Either that somebody just eats the expense and accepts a reduced income for themselves or they pass the cost along. Earned wages are rarely inflationary because they take nothing from the economy but rather add to it. Unearned wages are always inflationary because they take from the economy more than they can ever add to it.

And welfare is even worse. Every dollar the government distributes represents approximately three dollars drained from the economy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if you're only getting $1 of value when you spend $3, you're going to go broke pretty fast.

I concur
but every dollar of welfare as well as medicade, medicare is the same
There is no such of a thing as corporate tax. the consumer pays for it

why not make them earn it

I have been beyond broke with only gods word left as hope. I to know what you mean

What are "unearned wages"?. Never heard of them before. I always thought if you worked you got paid. But now I learn that, evidentally, there are some companies that pay "unearned wages". What company would that be?

It's a way to say, "Money gotten from something other than a paycheck" in order to make the person feel guilty for having it.

 

[zeke]

Do you know what "unearned wages" are? I couldn't tell from your response.

Or were you saying that government workers don't earn their wages? That would be incorrect.

Hey what did you think about Goodwill Industries paying some of the mentally handicapped pennies on the hour. All the while Goodwill execs make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Is this not great or what? And Goodwill does these neat time studies on the workers and if they are a little slow that day, their pay gets decreased. If they are having a good day, they might get an increase. Some of their workers make as much as 7.25 an hour. Some as little as .22 cents.

Sounds like Goodwill should lead the way in how to pay low skill workers.

I agree that some,not all, government employees earn their wages. The hard working country clerk, the guys who are out there in all kinds of weather picking up my trash, the folks who keep the water and sewer plant working, the guys who patch the potholes in the street--when they put in an honest day's work for an honest day's wages, they are absolutely earning their wages. And certainly the men and women in the military who at any hour could be called to put their lives on the line for their country are earning their wages.

Unearned wages are those paid that return no value to those paying them.

The competent burger joint manager calculates the maximum amount he can charge for his product that generates the maximum amount of revenues from which he must subtract his costs for infrastructure and equipment, both direct costs and depreciation, his costs for inventory and necessary supplies, license, taxes, insurance, etc. and labor. Income less all his expenses of doing business equals his profit.

His labor costs will be what entry level people are willing to work for plus what they become worth to him as they acquire experience and are able to independently handle more functions and therefore earn him more profits. The competent owner/manager arrives at the ideal mix of price versus expense to achieve maximum profits. When he reaches that point he generally looks to expand either his existing facility or open up more locations. In each case he provides more people opportunity to work.

But throw an artificially mandated wage into that mix and the whole formula becomes shaky. Either the owner takes the loss in profits or he must raise his prices which can cost him business because he was already at the maximum he could charge and have the maximum number of people buy his product. He minimizes his losses by cutting hours and/or benefits of his employees, hires fewer trainees, and/or raising his prices a small bit on the theory his competitors will have to do that too. Of course those small price increases all across the land also diminish the buying power of everybody which cuts into any benefit to the employees of the raises.

Wages that do not return a value to the one paying them are unearned wages. The more unearned wages there are, the fewer opportunities for earned wages there will be.[/QUOTE]

I don't know what kind of work you do, but in the business that I am in, when you have a low skill, low wage person that isn't "working", they are told not to come back for the next days work.

No one that runs a crew or manages a business will allow low skill low wage workers to stay on the job so they can be paid "unearned wages". That's just plain crazy talk.

 

[boedicca]

Having lived during times that we had a whole lot of week left after the paycheck ran out, and working two, sometimes three jobs to keep the wolf from the door, nobody knows better what a living wage means than I do. I still remember when we were able to open our first savings account because we finally had a little left over after paying the bills and buying groceries. It is a great, freeing, liberating experience. I'm sure not knocking it.

But the fact remains that every dollar of wages mandated by the government comes out of somebody's pocket. Either that somebody just eats the expense and accepts a reduced income for themselves or they pass the cost along. Earned wages are rarely inflationary because they take nothing from the economy but rather add to it. Unearned wages are always inflationary because they take from the economy more than they can ever add to it.

And welfare is even worse. Every dollar the government distributes represents approximately three dollars drained from the economy. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if you're only getting $1 of value when you spend $3, you're going to go broke pretty fast.

I concur
but every dollar of welfare as well as medicade, medicare is the same
There is no such of a thing as corporate tax. the consumer pays for it

why not make them earn it

I have been beyond broke with only gods word left as hope. I to know what you mean

What are "unearned wages"?. Never heard of them before. I always thought if you worked you got paid. But now I learn that, evidentally, there are some companies that pay "unearned wages". What company would that be?

Unearned wages are those the government forces a business to pay which are above the actual market rates for labor.

 

[Foxfyre]

I concur
but every dollar of welfare as well as medicade, medicare is the same
There is no such of a thing as corporate tax. the consumer pays for it

why not make them earn it

I have been beyond broke with only gods word left as hope. I to know what you mean

What are "unearned wages"?. Never heard of them before. I always thought if you worked you got paid. But now I learn that, evidentally, there are some companies that pay "unearned wages". What company would that be?

Unearned wages are those the government forces a business to pay which are above the actual market rates for labor.

Succinct and spot on.

Again, labor is worth only as much as it earns for whomever is paying the wages. Labor has to cover its own costs plus produce a reasonable profit for the employer. If it fails to cover its own costs, the employer takes a loss. If it is a large enough loss, the employer can go broke. If it fails to earn a profit for the employer, the employer goes broke anyway because he has to live too and won't have any income to live on.

 

[boedicca]

The best "policy" to improve wages is economic growth.

Period.

Without sufficient growth, excess supplies of labor drive down wages. And such is one of the major legacies of Obamanomics.

 

[zeke]

Succint and spot on you say.

Hey. Then it ought to be real easy to post up a couple examples of what unearned wages the government is forcing private businesses to pay.

Noticed how you slid right over that fact that people who are low skill and low pay don't stay on the job when they don't work.

Except in your weird version of the work world, low skill low wage workers get to stay on the job and get their "unearned" income.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you know what "unearned wages" are? I couldn't tell from your response.

Or were you saying that government workers don't earn their wages? That would be incorrect.

Hey what did you think about Goodwill Industries paying some of the mentally handicapped pennies on the hour. All the while Goodwill execs make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Is this not great or what? And Goodwill does these neat time studies on the workers and if they are a little slow that day, their pay gets decreased. If they are having a good day, they might get an increase. Some of their workers make as much as 7.25 an hour. Some as little as .22 cents.

Sounds like Goodwill should lead the way in how to pay low skill workers.

SSA Handbook § 2136

 

[dblack]

A "living wage" is a euphemism for a much higher minimum wage. It's part of overall campaign to give government more control over our economic decisions.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I have no issue paying 4.00 for a big mac so they can pay there people what is about 13.65 an hour to get them off of govt programs
that wage would include any perks such as Ins or match going into a 401 k

we would eliminate 100s of billions of dollars from entitlement programs
we would in return adjust the tax that corporation would pay to off set the additional wage

Again.. you refuse to acknowledge the fact that raising the floor also raises wages across the board.. and prices across the board also rise... the manager who was earning $13.50 an hour to manager the $7.75 an hour employee is not going to be satisfied making the same amount as the one he/she is managing... The $9.00 an hour warehouse worker is still going to want to earn more than the 18 year old burger flipper.... it spreads like wildfire... and the prices rise and the 'poor' still remain poor just at a differing number level in terms of dollars... the raising of the minimum wage like that accomplishes NOTHING

In my business to manage 8 people gets you 1 dollar per hour more than the some of those those you manage

A shift Mgr @ wendys managing 8 people make 12.02 an hour (25k a year) the number I came up with as removing 35-50% from welfare should be happy making 14?
I say this again
either we send it via tax dollars
or
we send it through the purchase of or the use of a service provided by that employer paying those wages

So you work at Wendys?

What Is the Salary Range for a Restaurant Manager? - Hcareers

Managers make 20 to 25 thousand in their first few years. After some experience they make anywhere from 30 to 40 thousand.
Damn!!! There's that pesky "having to work your way to the top" thing again.
A whole two years at that. Why oh why is life so unfair !!!! WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

Cry me a fucken river......

 

[Skull Pilot]

A "living wage" is a euphemism for a much higher minimum wage. It's part of overall campaign to give government more control over our economic decisions.

Libs think everyone who pushes a broom for a living should earn enough to buy a house and send 4 kids to college.

 

[dblack]

A "living wage" is a euphemism for a much higher minimum wage. It's part of overall campaign to give government more control over our economic decisions.

Libs think everyone who pushes a broom for a living should earn enough to buy a house and send 4 kids to college.

I think it's much broader than that. And it's not just libs. Corporatists in general want government to have pervasive control over the economy.