End of the Two-State Solution

[Coyote]

Utterly clueless.

As usual, you are incapable of answering a question.

You do realize that your proposed "solution" of sending them all back to Jordan (their so-called "home country") as as retarded as those that proposed sending the Israeli's all back to their countries of origin in Europe? I mean it's really pretty fucking retarded wouldn't you say?

Now, I'm sure you will treat us to another non-answer in the form of an amusing rant about how the situations are so different thus it's not really a double standard after all.

Should I lay wagers?

You are a complete toolbag, hammer sickle and all. Your understanding of this is about as profound as "free salad bar." Explaining this to you is as effective as telling my cat not to shed. You are a dead zone of stupidity and ignorance. I pity you and those around you.

Still obfuscating?

 

[RadiomanATL]

The issue isn't Israel.

Not a fan of reality, huh?

 

[CMike]

They were inhabitants of the land that eventually became Israel (i.e. their "home country"). Are you saying that land used to be part of Jordan?

Utterly clueless.

As usual, you are incapable of answering a question.

You do realize that your proposed "solution" of sending them all back to Jordan (their so-called "home country") as as retarded as those that proposed sending the Israeli's all back to their countries of origin in Europe? I mean it's really pretty fucking retarded wouldn't you say?

Now, I'm sure you will treat us to another non-answer in the form of an amusing rant about how the situations are so different thus it's not really a double standard after all.

Should I lay wagers?

Bad analogy. The vast majority of arabs living in judea and samaria are jordanians. They should cross the border back to their home country.

Before Israel, the area was controlled by the British Empire and before that the Ottoman Emprie. They had no home country where they are living now, which is Israel.

 

[CMike]

The issue isn't Israel.

Not a fan of reality, huh?

Yeah, I am, why aren't you?

 

[RadiomanATL]

The issue isn't Israel.

Not a fan of reality, huh?

Yeah, I am, why aren't you?

Says the person who sees zero blame on one side in a conflict that both sides have helped fuel for decades.

Yeah, tell us more about how you are so down with reality.

 

[The Rabbi]

Not a fan of reality, huh?

Yeah, I am, why aren't you?

Says the person who sees zero blame on one side in a conflict that both sides have helped fuel for decades.

Yeah, tell us more about how you are so down with reality.

Please explain how Israel has "fueled the conflict for decades". Do you think allowing their citizens to be bombed, knifed, shot, and rocketed is an acceptable alternative? How about allowing a growing minority with the power to vote themselves into office and destroy the state politically? What country would vote for self-extermination? Yet that is exactly what Israel is expected to do. Please tell us how Israel should support its own annhilation.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Yeah, I am, why aren't you?

Says the person who sees zero blame on one side in a conflict that both sides have helped fuel for decades.

Yeah, tell us more about how you are so down with reality.

Please explain how Israel has "fueled the conflict for decades".

How about intentionally inflaming the populace against them and take vindictive harshly punitive actions against relatives of terrorists??

I mean, I got a crazy uncle who's been in jail many times for breaking the law. Even have a cousin who tried to hold up a bank. But the government hasn't come to bulldoze my house because of their actions. So I think they got what was coming to them, namely jail time. However if they government came after me for their actions, I might get a little pissed and look for ways to get back at the government.

Silly me, its the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Tossed in with holding the actual perps responsible for the actions, and not innocent (until proven guilty) people.

So come down off of your high "Israel can do no wrong" horse. Israel has constantly fucked up and kept this thing going. The only reason Israel sits better morally in the conflict is because the Palestinians are even BIGGER, world class A-number one fuck-ups and retardedly refuse to listen to reason and purposefully kill innocents rather than just bulldozing their house.

 

[RadiomanATL]

How about allowing a growing minority with the power to vote themselves into office and destroy the state politically?

They can't vote themselves into office if they are part of another country...

 

[Coyote]

Utterly clueless.

As usual, you are incapable of answering a question.

You do realize that your proposed "solution" of sending them all back to Jordan (their so-called "home country") as as retarded as those that proposed sending the Israeli's all back to their countries of origin in Europe? I mean it's really pretty fucking retarded wouldn't you say?

Now, I'm sure you will treat us to another non-answer in the form of an amusing rant about how the situations are so different thus it's not really a double standard after all.

Should I lay wagers?

Bad analogy. The vast majority of arabs living in judea and samaria are jordanians. They should cross the border back to their home country.

Before Israel, the area was controlled by the British Empire and before that the Ottoman Emprie. They had no home country where they are living now, which is Israel.

Bad analogy how?

To argue that the Palestinians were "Jordanian" initially is disengenius - much of the Palestinian population was indiginous - they were natives to that area. When you talk about "they had no home country" - that is irrelevant because no one in that area really had a "home country". That entire area was under the Ottoman Empire and then the British Mandate and was carved up by the powers that be. While there was some Arab immigration there was already a substantial indiginous population in the area "Palestine" by the time the Jewish immigrants began carving out Israel. Contrary to propaganda, it was not an empty land.

Palestine was not an empty land when Zionist immigration began. The lowest estimates claim there were about 410,000 Arab Muslims and Christians in Palestine in 1893. A Zionist estimate claimed there were over 600,000 Arabs in Palestine. in the 1890s. At this time, the number of Jewish immigrants to Palestine was still negligible by all accounts. It is unlikely that Palestinian immigration prior to this period was due to Zionist development.

.....It is not possible to estimate illegal Arab immigration directly, but apparently there was some immigration. The total Arab immigration to Palestine recorded or estimated by the Mandate government was in the neighborhood of 45,000. Illegal immigration that was not recorded would not register in the final population figures for 1945, because those figures were estimates. We simply do not know how many Arabs and Jews there were in Palestine before the declaration of the state of Israel. It is probable that there were about 100,000 Arab immigrants into Palestine

Thus, if you argue moving then into what is now "Jordan", then you can make the same idiotic argument about sending the Jews back to Germany, Russia, and a host of other countries.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Who cares where they came from? Point is that they are there now. The choice is to deal with them rationally or to accept a never ending conflict.

And "sending them back" isn't rational.

 

[Coyote]

Who cares where they came from? Point is that they are there now. The choice is to deal with them rationally or to accept a never ending conflict.

And "sending them back" isn't rational.

Exactly.

The Palestinians are there. Israel is there. Neither one is going to conveniently disappear to solve the other's problems.

 

[The Rabbi]

Says the person who sees zero blame on one side in a conflict that both sides have helped fuel for decades.

Yeah, tell us more about how you are so down with reality.

Please explain how Israel has "fueled the conflict for decades".

How about intentionally inflaming the populace against them and take vindictive harshly punitive actions against relatives of terrorists??

I mean, I got a crazy uncle who's been in jail many times for breaking the law. Even have a cousin who tried to hold up a bank. But the government hasn't come to bulldoze my house because of their actions. So I think they got what was coming to them, namely jail time. However if they government came after me for their actions, I might get a little pissed and look for ways to get back at the government.

Silly me, its the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Tossed in with holding the actual perps responsible for the actions, and not innocent (until proven guilty) people.

So come down off of your high "Israel can do no wrong" horse. Israel has constantly fucked up and kept this thing going. The only reason Israel sits better morally in the conflict is because the Palestinians are even BIGGER, world class A-number one fuck-ups and retardedly refuse to listen to reason and purposefully kill innocents rather than just bulldozing their house.

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?
I'll bet your crazy uncle didnt use your house as a base of operations. He probably didnt hole up there to plan the next op. If he had, you can bet your ass the po po would be on the spot throwing rounds your way.
Bad analogy compounded by misunderstanding the situation. Typical American, trying to frame a difficult complex topic in terms familiar to him.
And your last paragraph pretty well sums it up. But if they're so fucking stupid and retarded, why should Israel negotiate with them??

 

[RadiomanATL]

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

 

[The Rabbi]

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

I guess when facts arent on your side you resort to ad hominems. And nice dodge on my last question.

 

[RadiomanATL]

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

I guess when facts arent on your side you resort to ad hominems. And nice dodge on my last question.

...he says as he ignores the facts.

And learn the definition of ad hominem. It's not just some convenient phrase that you can throw around when someone insults your intelligence. As a matter of fact, the very fact that you are mis-using the phrase calls into question your intelligence all on its own.

Ad Hominem

In reality, ad hominem is unrelated to sarcasm or personal abuse. Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument. The mere presence of a personal attack does not indicate ad hominem: the attack must be used for the purpose of undermining the argument, or otherwise the logical fallacy isn't there. It is not a logical fallacy to attack someone; the fallacy comes from assuming that a personal attack is also necessarily an attack on that person's arguments.

Therefore, if you can't demonstrate that your opponent is trying to counter your argument by attacking you, you can't demonstrate that he is resorting to ad hominem. If your opponent's sarcasm is not an attempt to counter your argument, but merely an attempt to insult you (or amuse the bystanders), then it is not part of an ad hominem argument.

And I wasn't dodging your last question. I thought it was rhetorical. I didn't know that you genuinely wanted an answer to such a simple question. My bad for assuming that the answer is self evident to everyone except for you. There I go over-estimating your intelligence. Won't happen again, I promise.

Here's your answer:

Israel should negotiate with them if they want peace.

 

[Coyote]

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

I guess when facts arent on your side you resort to ad hominems. And nice dodge on my last question.

Ad hominems? Dodge? Excuse me while I laugh hysterically and try to recall the last time YOU answered a question directly or refrained from insulting a posters intelligence!

 

[The Rabbi]

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

I guess when facts arent on your side you resort to ad hominems. And nice dodge on my last question.

Ad hominems? Dodge? Excuse me while I laugh hysterically and try to recall the last time YOU answered a question directly or refrained from insulting a posters intelligence!

I would insult your intelligence. If you had any.

 

[Coyote]

I guess when facts arent on your side you resort to ad hominems. And nice dodge on my last question.

Ad hominems? Dodge? Excuse me while I laugh hysterically and try to recall the last time YOU answered a question directly or refrained from insulting a posters intelligence!

I would insult your intelligence. If you had any.

I see the wheel is spinning, but the hamster looks dead...nice try though

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

The vast majority of Palestinian homes were bulldozed for Israeli theft not for "terrorism."

 

[CMike]

"Intentionally inflaming the populace against them"?? WTF?

The big words went over your head?

Oh, and bulldozers went over houses where there was no proof that harboring criminals or terrorists ever took place.

But nice try. Too bad it didn't work out for ya.

The vast majority of Palestinian homes were bulldozed for Israeli theft not for "terrorism."

Proof?