Egypt's Baradei Under House Arrest

[DiveCon]

These people want democracy.

No, they want rid of a brutal U.S. backed dictator.

Egypt's President Mubarak re-elected - World - theage.com.au

 

[Jroc]

and that is your positive example?




the korean adventure post wwii resulted in another war.

and why?

because of foreign intervention. especially US intervention.

you cannot claim south korea as an example to counter my opinion.

now try vietnam, lol

Absolutely!! a success... You can't even argue that point

Economy of South Korea

South Korea has a market economy which ranks 15th in the world by nominal GDP and 12th by purchasing power parity (PPP), identifying it as one of the G-20 major economies. It is a high-income developed country, with an emerging economy,[5] and is a member of OECD. South Korea is one of the Asian Tigers, and is the only developed country so far to have been included in the group of Next Eleven countries. South Korea had one of the world's fastest growing economies from the early 1960s to the late 1990s, and South Korea is still one of the fastest growing developed countries in the 2000s, along with Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan, the other three members of Asian Tigers.[6] South Koreans refer to this growth as the Miracle on the Han River.[7] Having almost no natural resources and always suffering from overpopulation in its small territory, which deterred continued population growth and the formation of a large internal consumer market, South Korea adapted an export-oriented economic strategy to fuel its economy, and in 2010, South Korea was the sixth largest exporter and tenth largest importer in the world

Economy of South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Vietnam was a hot part of the cold war which we eventually won, it turn these countries were freed

1.Armenia
2.Azerbaijan
3.Belarus
4.Estonia
5.Georgia
6.Kazakhstan
7.Kyrgyzstan
8.Latvia
9.Lithuania
10.Moldova
12.Tajikistan
13.Turkmenistan
14.Ukraine
15.Uzbekistan

keep in mind what i wrote.

i consider causing a further war in korea a definite non-improvement.

korea was a toy being ripped apart by china, soviet russia and the usa.

massacres pre-korean war occurred.

uprisings occurred

the koreans wanted a korean solution.

korea is different from japan or germany.

japan and germany were aggressors.

korea was a victim.

vietnam was a victim.

this is about unwanted and unwarranted US american influence in other states political systems.

and not about if the countries survived the "influence" and made it anyway.

try to keep up.

Lets read you're post again together...

americans should also not have a say in what style of government other countries should have.
it is not like they tried many times and not made it worse every single time

No thanks to us... keep side stepping. If not for our intervention in Korea the whole contry would be north Korea. Now admit you were wrong and we'll move on.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Absolutely!! a success... You can't even argue that point

Economy of South Korea

South Korea has a market economy which ranks 15th in the world by nominal GDP and 12th by purchasing power parity (PPP), identifying it as one of the G-20 major economies. It is a high-income developed country, with an emerging economy,[5] and is a member of OECD. South Korea is one of the Asian Tigers, and is the only developed country so far to have been included in the group of Next Eleven countries. South Korea had one of the world's fastest growing economies from the early 1960s to the late 1990s, and South Korea is still one of the fastest growing developed countries in the 2000s, along with Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan, the other three members of Asian Tigers.[6] South Koreans refer to this growth as the Miracle on the Han River.[7] Having almost no natural resources and always suffering from overpopulation in its small territory, which deterred continued population growth and the formation of a large internal consumer market, South Korea adapted an export-oriented economic strategy to fuel its economy, and in 2010, South Korea was the sixth largest exporter and tenth largest importer in the world

Economy of South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Vietnam was a hot part of the cold war which we eventually won, it turn these countries were freed

1.Armenia
2.Azerbaijan
3.Belarus
4.Estonia
5.Georgia
6.Kazakhstan
7.Kyrgyzstan
8.Latvia
9.Lithuania
10.Moldova
12.Tajikistan
13.Turkmenistan
14.Ukraine
15.Uzbekistan

keep in mind what i wrote.

i consider causing a further war in korea a definite non-improvement.

korea was a toy being ripped apart by china, soviet russia and the usa.

massacres pre-korean war occurred.

uprisings occurred

the koreans wanted a korean solution.

korea is different from japan or germany.

japan and germany were aggressors.

korea was a victim.

vietnam was a victim.

this is about unwanted and unwarranted US american influence in other states political systems.

and not about if the countries survived the "influence" and made it anyway.

try to keep up.

Yeah... ok...No thanks to us...keep side stepping If not for our intervention in Korea the whole contry would be north Korea now admit you were wrong and we'll move on.

nice tactic.

jeju uprising, yeo-sun "incident"?

strongman rhee

you are one of those great americans?

 

[Jroc]

keep in mind what i wrote.

i consider causing a further war in korea a definite non-improvement.

korea was a toy being ripped apart by china, soviet russia and the usa.

massacres pre-korean war occurred.

uprisings occurred

the koreans wanted a korean solution.

korea is different from japan or germany.

japan and germany were aggressors.

korea was a victim.

vietnam was a victim.

this is about unwanted and unwarranted US american influence in other states political systems.

and not about if the countries survived the "influence" and made it anyway.

try to keep up.

Yeah... ok...No thanks to us...keep side stepping If not for our intervention in Korea the whole contry would be north Korea now admit you were wrong and we'll move on.

nice tactic.

jeju uprising, yeo-sun "incident"?

strongman rhee

you are one of those great americans?

Sorry. I edited my post. but again lets look at you're statement..

americans should also not have a say in what style of government other countries should have.
it is not like they tried many times and not made it worse every single time

Would you like to rephrase it? Because obviously we did have a say in the type of government Korea has right? Communist tyranny or Capitalist democracy come on this is not rocket science

 

[L.K.Eder]

Yeah... ok...No thanks to us...keep side stepping If not for our intervention in Korea the whole contry would be north Korea now admit you were wrong and we'll move on.

nice tactic.

jeju uprising, yeo-sun "incident"?

strongman rhee

you are one of those great americans?

Sorry. I edited my post. but again lets look at you're statement..

americans should also not have a say in what style of government other countries should have.
it is not like they tried many times and not made it worse every single time

Would you like to rephrase it?

yes.

whenever you make a bold general absolute statement it is vulnerable.

auxiliary request 1:

US americans should also not have a decisive say, in what style of government other countries should have, when their input is not supported by said countries.
it is not like they tried many times and not made it worse every single time.

 

[Truthmatters]

The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

That would be nice. I don't believe you know bvery much about the region. In fact, I know you don't. This could be either very good or very bad, depending upon who the new regime is. You would know that if you actually understood the middle east

2/3rds of the population of egypt is under the age of 30.

They want more freedoms.

They are very into facebook and the internet.

They want a more western life.

It you who dont understand this region because you are so invested in seeing arabic people as evil.

 

[Valerie]

The administration is caught between the longstanding U.S. allegiance to Mubarak and its desire not to look soft on human rights or complicit with Mubarak's harsh tactics in dealing with the protestors. The messaging has been shifting over the course of the three-day unrest, due to internal and outside pressure on the administration to speak out more about the issue of democracy.

"We want to partner with the Egyptian people and their government to realize their aspirations to live in a democratic society that respects basic human rights," Clinton said on Friday, adding a line about democracy to the official message. No one has yet said anything, however, about breaking with Mubarak altogether.

Clinton calls for openness and restraint, Kerry calls for democracy in Egypt | The Cable

 

[Truthmatters]

It amazes me how many Americans dont think democracy will work to make these poeple more secular and open minded.

Freedom of association and internet acess to the rest of the world will turn these people away from these harsh religions with strangling and silly laws.

Democracy will save this world.

I wish more American felt this way about democracy.

Why does the right seem to have so little faith in the power of democracy?

 

[Valerie]

In Cairo alone, thousands rallied in Tahrir Square, attacking government buildings and shouting, "The people want the president to go!"

The protest movement has been bolstered by leading Egyptian dissident and Nobel laureate Muhammad El-Baradei, who returned to Egypt from Vienna to join what many already describe as a revolution.

El-Baradei has indicated he would be prepared to lead a transitional authority if he were asked. He was reported to be under house arrest but told France 24 television on January 29 that he intends to continue demonstrating.

"I will continue to participate in whatever it takes to make sure that the Mubarak regime should leave," he said. "I think that there is a consensus here in Egypt -- in every part of society -- that this is a regime that is dictatorial, that has failed to deliver on economic, social, or political fronts, and that we need a new beginning -- an Egypt that is free and that is democratic. And we need to go through a transitional period."



Egypt's opposition movements, including the banned Muslim Brotherhood, have also called for a peaceful transfer of power.

The unrest, which follows street protests that toppled Tunisian strongman Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali two weeks ago, is unprecedented for the tightly controlled country.

Egyptian Government Steps Down, But Protests Continue Unabated - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty 2011




Egypt's government has formally resigned, hours after President Hosni Mubarak sacked it in a bid to quell violent protests over unemployment, repression, and state corruption.

The country's military asked people not to gather in groups and to observe a 4 p.m. curfew on January 29, adding that violators would be subjected to "legal procedures."

But the warning, just like Mubarak's concessions, has not deterred angry Egyptians, who are disobeying en masse and continuing their call for an end to Mubarak's 30-year rule.

The 82-year-old Mubarak ... made clear, however, that he intends to stay in power and accused protesters of destabilizing the country.

He also pledged to introduce reforms and ordered troops and tanks into the capital, Cairo, and several other Egyptian cities.

 

[Valerie]

Mubarak should just resign.

 

[Truthmatters]

Yes he should but he should stay until an election is commensed to replace him.

That is what he should stand up and say to the people.

"I will preside over an election and Me and my son will not be on the ballot."

He needs to think of his country and NOT himself at this momment

 

[Valerie]

He just appointed a vice president which will allow a smoother transition in the event of his resignation.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak named a vice president for the first time in his presidency. Mubarak named Omar Suleiman, Mubarak's intelligence chief, who has lead major foreign policy issues in Egypt such as the Palestinian-Israeli peace process, according to The Associated Press.

Hosni Mubarak Names Omar Suleiman Vice President - ABC News

 

[Truthmatters]

Good , if he is a person the people already trust then that is even better than him staying to see an election through.

 

[Trajan]

and that is your positive example?




the korean adventure post wwii resulted in another war.

and why?

because of foreign intervention. especially US intervention.

you cannot claim south korea as an example to counter my opinion.

now try vietnam, lol

Absolutely!! a success... You can't even argue that point

Economy of South Korea

South Korea has a market economy which ranks 15th in the world by nominal GDP and 12th by purchasing power parity (PPP), identifying it as one of the G-20 major economies. It is a high-income developed country, with an emerging economy,[5] and is a member of OECD. South Korea is one of the Asian Tigers, and is the only developed country so far to have been included in the group of Next Eleven countries. South Korea had one of the world's fastest growing economies from the early 1960s to the late 1990s, and South Korea is still one of the fastest growing developed countries in the 2000s, along with Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan, the other three members of Asian Tigers.[6] South Koreans refer to this growth as the Miracle on the Han River.[7] Having almost no natural resources and always suffering from overpopulation in its small territory, which deterred continued population growth and the formation of a large internal consumer market, South Korea adapted an export-oriented economic strategy to fuel its economy, and in 2010, South Korea was the sixth largest exporter and tenth largest importer in the world

Economy of South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Vietnam was a hot part of the cold war which we eventually won, it turn these countries were freed

1.Armenia
2.Azerbaijan
3.Belarus
4.Estonia
5.Georgia
6.Kazakhstan
7.Kyrgyzstan
8.Latvia
9.Lithuania
10.Moldova
12.Tajikistan
13.Turkmenistan
14.Ukraine
15.Uzbekistan

keep in mind what i wrote.

i consider causing a further war in korea a definite non-improvement.

korea was a toy being ripped apart by china, soviet russia and the usa.

massacres pre-korean war occurred.

uprisings occurred

the koreans wanted a korean solution.

korea is different from japan or germany.

japan and germany were aggressors.

korea was a victim.

vietnam was a victim.

this is about unwanted and unwarranted US american influence in other states political systems.

and not about if the countries survived the "influence" and made it anyway.

try to keep up.

I am not sure I see Korea as a "victim".

After ww2 the ussr and US agreed to a joint commission to administer Korea. Kim Il-Sung in the north and Rhee in the south become over the next several years the leaders of their particular regions.

In 46 the So Kors had their first general election....the USSR boycotted the results.

The north was armed by a combo of Chinese and Russian benefactors.

In 48 Russia pulled its troops, in 49 we pulled out.

1950, the north invades.

Now looking at the cease fire still extent today and conditions in each section of country, I’d say the south is better by far than the north and had the north won, well, the entire peninsula would be one huge gulag.

I’d say our influence was a net positive.

 

[MaggieMae]

yes well ask an Iranian how he feels the clerics are doing? Or if he thought the country would be in economic straits its in and facing your everyday shortage 30 years after the revolution?

I don't think Americans should be talking about other nations economic problems.

Well, with $1.3 billion in US aid going to Egypt annually, guess how long it would take before that's yanked if the Brotherhood assumes power. UN sanctions on Iran exist, and even more US sanctions were added recently. If Egypt (which has little oil production) is cut off and loses its tourist trade, how will it survive? At least Iran still has its resources to market.

 

[Trajan]

yes well ask an Iranian how he feels the clerics are doing? Or if he thought the country would be in economic straits its in and facing your everyday shortage 30 years after the revolution?

I don't think Americans should be talking about other nations economic problems.

Well, with $1.3 billion in US aid going to Egypt annually, guess how long it would take before that's yanked if the Brotherhood assumes power. UN sanctions on Iran exist, and even more US sanctions were added recently. If Egypt (which has little oil production) is cut off and loses its tourist trade, how will it survive? At least Iran still has its resources to market.

we've actually been re-routing portions of that money for a while now, trying to get it into 'better' hands but alas.....

 

[MaggieMae]

The administration is caught between the longstanding U.S. allegiance to Mubarak and its desire not to look soft on human rights or complicit with Mubarak's harsh tactics in dealing with the protestors. The messaging has been shifting over the course of the three-day unrest, due to internal and outside pressure on the administration to speak out more about the issue of democracy.

"We want to partner with the Egyptian people and their government to realize their aspirations to live in a democratic society that respects basic human rights," Clinton said on Friday, adding a line about democracy to the official message. No one has yet said anything, however, about breaking with Mubarak altogether.

Clinton calls for openness and restraint, Kerry calls for democracy in Egypt | The Cable

That's because the choice is between bad and worse than bad.

 

[Sunni Man]

yes well ask an Iranian how he feels the clerics are doing? Or if he thought the country would be in economic straits its in and facing your everyday shortage 30 years after the revolution?

I don't think Americans should be talking about other nations economic problems.

Well, with $1.3 billion in US aid going to Egypt annually, guess how long it would take before that's yanked if the Brotherhood assumes power. UN sanctions on Iran exist, and even more US sanctions were added recently. If Egypt (which has little oil production) is cut off and loses its tourist trade, how will it survive? At least Iran still has its resources to market.

Even if an Islamist group takes power in Egypt.

I doubt they would shut down the tourist trade.

People would still be allowed to visit the Pyramids and other tourist attractions.

 

[Trajan]

Mubarak is imho, clearing the decks, his family landed in London a few hours ago.....The Israelis have been flying their people out etc etc...

 

[MaggieMae]

I don't think Americans should be talking about other nations economic problems.

Well, with $1.3 billion in US aid going to Egypt annually, guess how long it would take before that's yanked if the Brotherhood assumes power. UN sanctions on Iran exist, and even more US sanctions were added recently. If Egypt (which has little oil production) is cut off and loses its tourist trade, how will it survive? At least Iran still has its resources to market.

Even if an Islamist group takes power in Egypt.

I doubt they would shut down the tourist trade.

People would still be allowed to visit the Pyramids and other tourist attractions.

I don't think the Brotherhood is looked upon as peaceful folk. Some probably would risk visiting, but I'm guessing the tourist trade would drop off considerably due to fear. They claim not to be affiliated with al-Qaeda, but endorse AQ's terrorism when it's directed at Christians and Jews.