Egypt's Baradei Under House Arrest

[PoliticalChic]

Who are the right people though? the Muslim Brotherhood? correct me if I'm wrong but the people in Egypt are not rioting to be more Islamic, they are rioting because of a corrupt government, bad economy and not enough jobs to go around.

Oh that's a good way to do it, tear the country up, burn it down and scare off every tourist around the world for the next year.. Yay team.

yeah, those egypterers should go home and shut up.

then sell trinkets to fat american tourists being carried from the nile cruiseships to the temples near luxor.

what are they complaining about?

November 17, 1997 Luxor massacre of 58 Tourists, including four Japanese
couples on their honeymoon, and four Egyptians by Moslem
fanatics .

Can we make a travel vid out of this?

 

[L.K.Eder]

Oh that's a good way to do it, tear the country up, burn it down and scare off every tourist around the world for the next year.. Yay team.

yeah, those egypterers should go home and shut up.

then sell trinkets to fat american tourists being carried from the nile cruiseships to the temples near luxor.

what are they complaining about?

November 17, 1997 Luxor massacre of 58 Tourists, including four Japanese
couples on their honeymoon, and four Egyptians by Moslem
fanatics .

Can we make a travel vid out of this?

do you have a point?

you did not think you had something new to offer to me, huh?

mostly swiss and also germans were killed.

do keep on fearmongering while egyptians are trying to get rid of an oppressive regime.

oh, and fuck you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

yeah, those egypterers should go home and shut up.

then sell trinkets to fat american tourists being carried from the nile cruiseships to the temples near luxor.

what are they complaining about?

November 17, 1997 Luxor massacre of 58 Tourists, including four Japanese
couples on their honeymoon, and four Egyptians by Moslem
fanatics .

Can we make a travel vid out of this?

do you have a point?

you did not think you had something new to offer to me, huh?

mostly swiss and also germans were killed.

do keep on fearmongering while egyptians are trying to get rid of an oppressive regime.

oh, and fuck you.

Watch you language: you're not speaking to your family here.

Yes, I do have a point, although it was clearly over your head. There is
a virulent xenophobic and fairly common strain of savage afoot in Egypt, and if the
Muslim Brotherhood gains a foothold in the government, the horror of the Luxor massacre will be far too common.

From your post, it seems that you represent the head-in-the-sand contingent. The term 'fearmongering' is used by folks like you any time the ramifications of such realities need to be discussed.

Can't we all just get along, Rodney?

 

[L.K.Eder]

November 17, 1997 Luxor massacre of 58 Tourists, including four Japanese
couples on their honeymoon, and four Egyptians by Moslem
fanatics .

Can we make a travel vid out of this?

do you have a point?

you did not think you had something new to offer to me, huh?

mostly swiss and also germans were killed.

do keep on fearmongering while egyptians are trying to get rid of an oppressive regime.

oh, and fuck you.

Watch you language: you're not speaking to your family here.

Yes, I do have a point, although it was clearly over your head. There is
a virulent xenophobic and fairly common strain of savage afoot in Egypt, and if the
Muslim Brotherhood gains a foothold in the government, the horror of the Luxor massacre will be far too common.

From your post, it seems that you represent the head-in-the-sand contingent. The term 'fearmongering' is used by folks like you any time the ramifications of such realities need to be discussed.

Can't we all just get along, Rodney?

your stück has become tiresome.

this is the time in suez when ve dance

 

[jillian]

President Obama's Speech on the Cairo situation

msnbc.com Video Player

 

[syrenn]

President Obama's Speech on the Cairo situation

msnbc.com Video Player

He looks really tense.

 

[jillian]

President Obama's Speech on the Cairo situation

msnbc.com Video Player

He looks really tense.

its a tense situation. and he has to walk a very narrow line.

 

[MaggieMae]

So you immediately move to some historian's OPINION. Why don't you read the Qur'an? Of the 6,346 verses, only 111 refer to jihads. How does that compare to The Bible? The sad part is that there are factions that cherry-pick both of those to suit their own agendas.

Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side:

Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam

See, I have read the Koran, the new testament and the old testament. I can tell you that there is no comparison between the way Islam treats it's non-believers and the way other religions do. I would suggest you ask yourself which Muslim countries have freedom of religion.

Freedom of religion exists in Turkey and Indonesia and several other Muslim countries where Islam is the primary religion but liberal when with regard to other religions even as they favor Muslims over non-Muslims. They are, however, forbidden to convert from Islam to another religion.

And don't get me wrong. By posting the side-by-side similaries, I wasn't implying any favoritism nor, Heaven Forbid, entertaining the idea of becoming a Muslim. I just think it's interesting when so much is written about the evils of Islam when the two religions are remarkably similar in their beliefs.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

These people want democracy.

Do you not see the gravity of the situation at hand?? I'll ask again. Do you not see the gravity of the situation at hand? This is NOT about democracy.

 

[Trajan]

you can bet the 'experts' at foggy bottom are on Mubarak's team.


I am left wonderin' where all this was when Iran blew...

 

[MaggieMae]

Be very careful what you wish for people. We just don't know who will replace the Mubarak regime. This region is well known for even worse regimes waiting in the wings to take over. Just look at what happened in Iran. The Shah was not an ideal leader but look at who replaced him. The deranged Islamic Clerics ended up taking over after he was over-thrown. They ushered in the dark age of radical Islamic Terrorism all over the World. So was the Shah really that bad after all? Just be careful with those early celebrations. There could be much worse forces out there ready to take over Egypt if Mubarak falls. I would say the same thing about the Lebanon turmoil as well.

Who's celebrating? This is potentially a devastating geopolitical mess that, like any mob frenzy, is already spreading to other countries. There could be a lot of blood spilled from one boundary to the other.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

you can bet the 'experts' at foggy bottom are on Mubarak's team.


I am left wonderin' where all this was when Iran blew...

Yeah, same here.

 

[MaggieMae]

True...and you ended there, as well?

How many members are there in the Organizatin of the Islamic Conference (OIC) ?

Hint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

How childish, PC. You disappoint me.

Turkey, Malaysia, and Bangladesh are also democracies. Algeria and Nigeria have a mixed democracy, Iran's is a theocratic democracy, and of course Afghanistan has a weak, forced democracy.

Your question, however, is foolish. That's like expecting the United States NOT to be a member of NATO.

One thing I think everyone is forgetting here, when it comes to Muslim nations and their identities, is that many of the PEOPLE of those countries still cling to their ancient histories apart from the Mesopotamia regions which developed schools and laws and modernized farming techniques. Just like any other country, including the United States, an uneducated population is an oppressed population.

Exhilarating!

Must tell you how thrilled I am back to be on our historic footing: virtual enmity! Enough of that agreement stuff!
Now, on to work:

1. Old saw's tend to be very true: haste makes waste. In your haste to rush to the attack, you failed to read post #31, which included the positive aspect found in Indonesia!
So, old friend, your intermittent reading habits obviate your post!
Touche!

2. "How childish, PC."
If it were childish, what made you go to the trouble of verifying my point: the overwhelming majority of islamic nations do not subscribe to democracy....The OIC has 60 members.
even several of the ones that you list would not be what is meant by democracy in this nation....
you do understand our constitutional democracy, don't you?
Ready to play patty-cakes?

- I just got what made you so mad! The Obama 57 state thing! And the fact that there are 57 members of the OIC and 3 observing members!
Poked your Democrat sensibitities???? Good.


3. "You're expecting Muslim nations to NOT be members in the OIC?"
No, I'm expecting to prove that democracy rarely finds a home in a Muslim nation.
Thank you for helping me to prove same.

4. "Your question, however, is foolish. "
And you make a habit of responding to 'foolish' questions?
No, you 'foolishly' believed that using words like 'childish' and 'foolish' would have some sort of moment, would score some debating points.
That, my dear, is both childish and foolish.

5. Now, as for the final paragraph, "One thing I think everyone is forgetting here, when it comes to Muslim nations and their identities, is that many of the PEOPLE of those countries still cling to their ancient histories apart from the Mesopotamia regions which developed schools and laws and modernized farming techniques. Just like any other country, including the United States, an uneducated population is an oppressed population."

Rather than astute and erudite, it sounds more like Professor Irwin Corey explaining the infield fly rule.
A veritable word salad!

"Muslim nations...identities...PEOPLE...cling to their ancient histories ...Mesopotamia...schools and laws and modernized farming...oppresssed people of the United States..."??????

Sorry, but this essay earns you a failing grade.

While it is good to have you back in your traditional role, I'm afraid that today you have served as the 'human piñata.'

Well it's clear you don't know a whole lot of your own history regarding the region if you thought my analysis was a chef's salad. Try reading up on actual history in addition to your favorite historians' opinions of said history.

 

[jillian]

you can bet the 'experts' at foggy bottom are on Mubarak's team.


I am left wonderin' where all this was when Iran blew...

Yeah, same here.

the issues are different.

egypt is an ally and one of the reasons the mid east even approximates some stability. if it falls to a fundamentalist regime, that is a nightmare.

iran is a rogue state run by a loon puppet who is controlled by the fundie imam's. they are not an ally. they are a headache. if the irani government falls, that can be a very good thing.

i know you know the difference.

 

[MaggieMae]

I wish I could agee.

You underestimate the power of the Koran.

Tocqueville writes in "Democracy in America," that while the Christian faith is fully compatible with democracy, Islam cannot be. Islam "will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst [Christianity] is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods" (Part II, First Book, Chapter 5, ¶ 1103).

So you immediately move to some historian's OPINION. Why don't you read the Qur'an? Of the 6,346 verses, only 111 refer to jihads. How does that compare to The Bible? The sad part is that there are factions that cherry-pick both of those to suit their own agendas.

Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side:

Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam

1. None but the uneducated would refer to Alexis de Tocqueville as 'some historian.'

2. Based on that evinced lacunae, I'm going to assume that you know as much about the Koran, as about Tocqueville.
So here is a lesson on same:

Americans have very little understanding about Islam. The religious and political aspects are contained in the Koran, organized into Sura, which is not organized numerically, but rather with the longest first, and the shortest toward the end. The believer is required to look at the ones written after Muhammad went to Medina, in 622 ad, for guidance.: these later sura rule over the earlier ones. This is know as the theory of abrogation. The suras that entail supremacy include:

a. "fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5).
b. Verse 29 of chapter 9 of the Qur’an mandates that the Muslims fight against the Jews and Christians “until they pay the jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

c. Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

These sura are the most radical and violent. Nor are they subject to interpretation:

d. The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice;
there is NONE who can change His words.
He both heareth and knoweth.
-- Sura 6:115 None can change the words of God;
-- Sura 6:34

e. There is no changing the words of God;
that is the mighty triumph.
-- Sura 10:64

f. And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord,
there is none who can alter His words;
and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.
-- Sura 18:27

And the Koran explains why the later sura supersede the prior:

g. And for whatever verse we abrogate and cast into oblivion
We bring a better or the like of it;
knowest thou not that God is powerful over everything?
-- Sura 2:106

h. And when We exchange a verse in place of another verse --
and God knows very well what He is sending down --
they say, 'Thou art a mere forger!'
Nay, but the most of them have no knowledge.
-- Sura 16:101

Wherein do you see a belief in a constitutional democracy?

Hillsdale’s Kirby Center sponsored a lecture by Brian Kennedy, President of Claremont Institute, and Ballistic Missile Defense Project Director. The above reference to the Koran are from that lecture.

3. "Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side"
How about you take a look at this, and open your eyes:

From "The Farhud," by Edwin Black:
Jews had lived in Iraq for some 2600 years, but the origin of this mass Muslim movement was in 627. At that time, Mohammed, defending Medina, judged the Jewish tribe to be guilty of aiding the Meccan attackers, and oversaw such acts as the beheading of 900 captives of the Banu Qurayzah tribe, he watched the bodies thrown into a pit.

(… in his 1895 biography of Muhammad ("Mahomet and Islam", London, 1895, p. 151), which relied entirely on the original Muslim sources, the scholar Sir William Muir observed:
"The massacre of the Banu Coreiza was a barbarous deed which cannot be justified by any reason of political necessity the indiscriminate slaughter of the whole tribe cannot be recognized otherwise than as an act of monstrous cruelty?")
The Legacy of Jihad [Andrew G. Bostom] - Muhammad, the Qurayza Massacre, and PBS


The point to be gleaned from the above two notes? The extermination of the Jews of Medina represents the iconic moment in Islam, just as the Sermon on the Mount is the iconic moment of Christianity, or the parting of the Red Sea is for the Jews.

How's that for the "similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side."

Now find some similar words in The Bible. Come on! You can do it!

 

[MaggieMae]

These people want democracy.

Do you not see the gravity of the situation at hand?? I'll ask again. Do you not see the gravity of the situation at hand? This is NOT about democracy.

No, it isn't. And I can see now I should have avoided getting into any debate about Muslims and democracy.

 

[L.K.Eder]

mubarak is a brutal torturing dictator.

it is "great" that he can be bribed to be "your" brutal torturing dictator and even provides "information" to prop up the Iraq invasion on demand (al libi).

good riddance.

more power to the egyptian people.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

you can bet the 'experts' at foggy bottom are on Mubarak's team.


I am left wonderin' where all this was when Iran blew...

Yeah, same here.

the issues are different.

egypt is an ally and one of the reasons the mid east even approximates some stability. if it falls to a fundamentalist regime, that is a nightmare.

iran is a rogue state run by a loon puppet who is controlled by the fundie imam's. they are not an ally. they are a headache. if the irani government falls, that can be a very good thing.

i know you know the difference.

You and I are in agreement here, jillian. I don't think I explained myself. If the muslim brotherhood and/or radicals take over egypt, we're looking at a horrendous nightmare. That's why I think the situation is dire. The majority in Iran need to overthrow the crazies. I was pissed when this didn't happen.

 

[Sunni Man]

You and I are in agreement here, jillian. I don't think I explained myself. If the muslim brotherhood and/or radicals take over egypt, we're looking at a horrendous nightmare. That's why I think the situation is dire...........

Why would it be a nightmare?

If it's the will of the people.

That will be a good thing.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

You and I are in agreement here, jillian. I don't think I explained myself. If the muslim brotherhood and/or radicals take over egypt, we're looking at a horrendous nightmare. That's why I think the situation is dire...........

Why would it be a nightmare?

If it's the will of the people.

That will be a good thing.

And you think the muslim brotherhood is gonna set idly by when this happens?