Education a right ?

[The Rabbi]

Why do Republicans want to have an uneducated workforce?

Same reason Democrats want an uneducated electorate. They can foist their stupid ideas on them and get them to vote for them for eternity while robbing their pockets.
The difference is that Republicans want an educated work force. Democrats want dependents.

 

[The T]

Why do Republicans want to have an uneducated workforce?

Same reason Democrats want an uneducated electorate. They can foist their stupid ideas on them and get them to vote for them for eternity while robbing their pockets.
The difference is that Republicans want an educated work force. Democrats want dependents.

Indeed. See Also Slavery (As in to the State and their Power over the people)...

 

[Wicked Jester]

Controlled by Republicans until 2006.



Michigan had a Republican governor from 1991 until 2003.




OK. Connecticut has the highest per capita deficit and Republican governor.
California is next with a Republican governor.
New Jersey at #4 Minnesota at #7 and Hawaii at #10 also have Republican governors.

Many Eyes: Per Capita State Budget Deficits (2010 Estimates)






Huh? They have the 2nd highest budget deficit per capita in the nation.



CA and NJ both have Republican governors.

The GOP governor took office what? Two months ago? The Dums have controlled the Ca legislature for years.

California has had a Republican governor for 16 out of the last 20 years.

Massachusetts, another top 10 state in the list of per capita deficits, has had a Republican governor for 17 out of the last 20 years.

And "per capita" is a shitty metric. But not surprising you would use it since you have nothing else.

You're the one trying to make a claim here. By all means, please describe the metrics that would be acceptable to you, then I will show you that not all states which are bad according to that metric have been controlled by Democrats.

We don't have a republican governor. We have a liberal moron masquerading as a repub!

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Same reason Democrats want an uneducated electorate.

That's not true. Obama and the Democrats increased tax credits for educational expenses, making it easier to send your kid to college.

The difference is that Republicans want an educated work force.

If that's true why are they against free education for children?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Controlled by Republicans until 2006.



Michigan had a Republican governor from 1991 until 2003.




OK. Connecticut has the highest per capita deficit and Republican governor.
California is next with a Republican governor.
New Jersey at #4 Minnesota at #7 and Hawaii at #10 also have Republican governors.

Many Eyes: Per Capita State Budget Deficits (2010 Estimates)






Huh? They have the 2nd highest budget deficit per capita in the nation.



CA and NJ both have Republican governors.

The GOP governor took office what? Two months ago? The Dums have controlled the Ca legislature for years.

California has had a Republican governor for 16 out of the last 20 years.

Massachusetts, another top 10 state in the list of per capita deficits, has had a Republican governor for 17 out of the last 20 years.

And "per capita" is a shitty metric. But not surprising you would use it since you have nothing else.

You're the one trying to make a claim here. By all means, please describe the metrics that would be acceptable to you, then I will show you that not all states which are bad according to that metric have been controlled by Democrats.

Rabbi - please respond.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Education is not a right. Access to an education is a privalage that one should take advantage of, and most don't.

Sort of. While I don't necessarily believe anyone is entitled to have an education, or access to it, provided to them at someone else's expense, I do think there's a basic right not to have access denied on an arbitrary basis, as in "we don't like your kind, so you can't go to our school".

That being said, I think a successful society will do its best to make education available to those who truly want to make use of it, even if they don't have the means to provide it for themselves. We don't want to deny ourselves the services and benefits of someone bright and talented simply because he was born into a poor family.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Rather than education being a Right - education is a parental responsibility.

It is in society's interest for children to be educated, but the effect of politicizing education has resulted in indoctrination, not real education.

I'd say a child has a right to expect his parents to provide for basic education in the same way that he has a right to expect them to provide him with food, shelter, and clothing. Claims upon one's parents are rather different from claims upon others. And by the same token, a child who is a ward of the state DOES have a right to expect the state to provide the same basic education.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Only in America - having guns is a right, but education is a privilege...talk about having it arse backwards...

Hmmm... 1 is for self protection and defense... I think we can agree self defense is a right

The other is for the betterment of one's self or someone in one's care... and we have the right to pursue that, but not have it just handed to you... just as the 2nd amendment gives you the right to keep and bear arms, but not the right to have one provided to you

And besides, no one has ever suggested that one has a right to have a gun provided for one. We still have to go out and actually ACQUIRE the gun ourselves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yep.. used some of that employment benefit I agreed to

Does not make education a right... just as any other employer's tuition reimbursement does not make it a right

No, it doesn't make it a right, but because of your rhetoric it makes you look like an ass.

A $1200 investment for a guaranteed 36k return. Pretty effing sweet deal. I should know.

Plus the enormous amount of other benefits you receive from being in the service. Again, I should know.

All on the taxpayers dime.

The military, in many ways, is the pinnacle of entitlements.

As a return for EMPLOYMENT and complete and total service... with very little pay

You are confusing entitlements with job benefits again

Support job benefits as compensation for labors given does not nullify the stance against redistribution and entitlements

AND in return for the risk of perhaps losing your life in service to your country. THAT is why the US does things like the GI bill and hiring preferences for federal jobs for its military personnel. And well it should.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Education is the the best way to get out of poverty. The parents who realize this in my 'economically challenged' neighborhood I teach in realize this. They are the ones who make sure their children are in school, and that they (the parents) show up for every parent meeting, and make sure that their kids and themselves are held accountable for their actions, instead of laying the blame on the schools or the teachers.


If we didn't have public education for these children, what would happen to them?

None of which makes it a right, just a good idea.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You have failed to prove that there is a right to education specifically. No amount of spinning will produce it because it is not there.
Sorry. Thanks for playing.

So is education necessary? Or are you against education in general?

Why is it that leftists are incapable of distinguishing between "good idea" and "civil right"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

we have the right to remain stupid?

just as an aside, would anyone care to opine on a populace that endures a marked decline in it's acedemics comprable to the rest of the world it trades with?

(gee, i hope i spelt all that rigth!)

Not only do people have a right to be stupid, it is impossible to alienate that particular right, and it seems to be the one they exercise the most vigorously.

 

[Care4all]

the 10th amendment could allow education to be a right....

it certainly is not something our government could prevent us from getting.

Rights do not mean the gvt has to pay for it....the gvt does not have to buy me a gun, just because I have the right to own one.

I have the right to educate myself, as I have the right to defend myself.

 

[Dr Grump]

Heard you the first time...;O)

 

[Cecilie1200]

Care to document a few hundred?

It's just Wiki... but you can follow the links out for yourself.
Slave rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Why is it that you believe that acceptance of slavery is a natural state of being for humans? I just don't see it. What I see is a natural human aversion to captivity.

Again, if there is no inherent "right" to be free... there's nothing WRONG with making another man your slave. Morality is entirely subjective when there is no authority higher than one man's word against another's.

As it happens, humanity thought for millennia that there was nothing wrong with slavery. Oh, sure, everyone had an aversion to BEING a slave, but that's not the same as an aversion to the INSTITUTION of slavery. It took concentrated philosophical thought - based on Christian beliefs, by the way - to get Western civilization thinking that slavery as an institution was a bad thing, and concentrated military might to make everyone else conform to that idea. Some people still don't.

 

[The great dane]

I cant be bothered to read all those pages, so I will just give my point of view.

Being a dane, I think education is a right and I would even say that I dont like the american education system.

In my country education is free and I will never have to worry about being able to afford going to college as I can imagine many americans are and will.
When we turn 18, we will get paid around 1000 euro each month for as long as we are students. I have no idea what that is in dollars, but my guess is around 1500 dollars.

This is a major difference between Denmark and the US.

This makes sure that everyone who wants an education, can get one no matter their economical status.
The phrase be all you can be really comes into play here.

All men are equal the declaration of independence says, but how can they be equal if not everyone can get something as basic as an education.

 

[goldcatt]

I cant be bothered to read all those pages, so I will just give my point of view.

Being a dane, I think education is a right and I would even say that I dont like the american education system.

In my country education is free and I will never have to worry about being able to afford going to college as I can imagine many americans are and will.
When we turn 18, we will get paid around 1000 euro each month for as long as we are students. I have no idea what that is in dollars, but my guess is around 1500 dollars.

This is a major difference between Denmark and the US.

This makes sure that everyone who wants an education, can get one no matter their economical status.
The phrase be all you can be really comes into play here.

All men are equal the declaration of independence says, but how can they be equal if not everyone can get something as basic as an education.

You're right, this is a major difference between our countries.

Our Constitution is written with certain rights spelled out that the government must protect for its citizens. There is a part of it, the Ninth Amendment, that states there are rights not spelled out that are also reserved for the citizens - but that is largely ignored, nor have our courts ever in 200+ years made a determination of what precisely it means. So under our law as it stands, no, education is not a "right".

Here we also have what I suspect you do not, which is a large contingent of our citizens pushing for freedom from all things government, some to the point of complete self-sufficiency at any price. Government is inherently evil to them, at least at the national level. Others believe there are things government is simply best suited to do, or has too much of an interest in doing, which justifies its involvement regardless of whether the law states it is a "right". To them, government is benign or even beneficial. Many, actually I should say most, folks are in the middle and want some sort of balance between government control and self-sufficiency - we just tend to bicker over where the balance lies. That's a bit of a simplification, but it's the basic premise at the core of the debates around here on a lot of issues, public education being one of them.

 

[mdn2000]

Education in the USA is a right, that said our rights are not given to us by the government.

Should advanced education be a right, do I have a right to stay in school and be paid to stay in school my entire life. Seems crazy if you put it in that perspective.

As far as which system is better I guess the Danish system is better, all our technological advancements are coming from Danish engineers, all our medicine is coming from the Danish, I know a bit harsh.

I dont know much about the Danish other than that giant piece of shit Vesta's wind mill comes from the Danes.

So who is getting a better education and at what cost.

Further Denmark is a tiny country, this is like comparing apples and oranges.

One University in California graduates more people in one year than all of Denmark's universities.

 

[The Rabbi]

I cant be bothered to read all those pages, so I will just give my point of view.

Being a dane, I think education is a right and I would even say that I dont like the american education system.

In my country education is free and I will never have to worry about being able to afford going to college as I can imagine many americans are and will.
When we turn 18, we will get paid around 1000 euro each month for as long as we are students. I have no idea what that is in dollars, but my guess is around 1500 dollars.

This is a major difference between Denmark and the US.

This makes sure that everyone who wants an education, can get one no matter their economical status.
The phrase be all you can be really comes into play here.

All men are equal the declaration of independence says, but how can they be equal if not everyone can get something as basic as an education.

Education is not "free." This is a fallacy.
Probably explains why Denmark is a third rate Euro-socialist failed state.

 

[Samson]

I cant be bothered to read all those pages, so I will just give my point of view.

Being a dane, I think education is a right and I would even say that I dont like the american education system.

In my country education is free and I will never have to worry about being able to afford going to college as I can imagine many americans are and will.
When we turn 18, we will get paid around 1000 euro each month for as long as we are students. I have no idea what that is in dollars, but my guess is around 1500 dollars.

This is a major difference between Denmark and the US.

This makes sure that everyone who wants an education, can get one no matter their economical status.
The phrase be all you can be really comes into play here.

All men are equal the declaration of independence says, but how can they be equal if not everyone can get something as basic as an education.

Education is not "free." This is a fallacy.
Probably explains why Denmark is a third rate Euro-socialist failed state.

Let's not be in such a rush to judgement.

Imagine the USA reducing the size of our military to the size of Denmark's Tuba Playing Army?

Maybe we could pay every 18 year old $1000/mo (INDEFINATELY!) to sleep until noon, take a class, "Benefits of Socialism 101," and then smoke legal dope in a coffee shop the rest of the day.

Of course, we'd need to dupe some super-power into protecting our freedoms, but if the Dutch can do it, Why Can't We?