Economy grows for the third straight quarter

[Vast LWC]

So in VLWC's opinion the healthcare law was "compromises with people who do not see things the same way as you." ???

I beg to differ.

Oh, really?

Well, if there was not compromise, and this is what Obama and the rest of the Democrats had in mind all along, then you are admitting that your previous accusations of them wanting "nationalized healthcare" are completely false, right?


So, which is it exactly? Are the Democrats trying to turn all healthcare into a socialist/nationalized system, or did they not compromise at all?

It can't be both.

First of all...secret meetings, bribery and corruption is not compromise....secondly I never said a damn thing about "nationalized healthcare"...I said Obama wants "single payer" and that's an indisputable fact. Third...you just glossed over the article I posted a link to that showed the first step to achieving this goal. 4th you completely ignored the fact that your definition of "single payer system" is WRONG.

Now please clear these things up.

LOL, caught in a logic trap, you go on the attack. That's typical.

The link you posted does not back up your assertion, taken in context with the rest of what he said.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

The economy must FAIL...

Please God....The Economy must FAIL

So it's acceptable to you to go thousands of dollars in debt to give the appearance that the economy is recovering?

Consumer debt is still falling. It is not rising.

Ask yourself why consumer debt is falling....please. I can't believe you missed this one!!!!
Personal Bankruptcy Filings Continue to Rise in 2010 - Total Bankruptcy

 

[Toro]

Wow.

The spin in this thread is friggin' ridiculous.

3 Quarters of economic growth is good news in anyone's book. 3.2% is a fair amount of growth to celebrate.

You all are the same people that were crowing that last quarter's 5% growth was all due to temporary programs that were due to expire...

...Well, those programs have expired, and the 3.2% growth is what we have left afterwards. And that's still pretty damn respectable.

Coupled with the good news in unemployment over the last few weeks, we can now officially declare the recession OVER, and state positively that the economy is on the upswing again. Thank God.

So, please, enough with the spin. It's time for you all to admit that the recovery is in full swing and stop bitching and complaining that it's not growing fast enough for your tastes. At least it IS growing.

Of course, according to Rush Limfat and the ditto-heads, the economy was supposed to sink into a full-blown depression because Obama and the Democrats were in charge. Just another bad prediction by Rush that never came true. Wonder how he'll try to revise history this time?

The economy is doing much better than virtually every economist thought a year ago.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Oh, really?

Well, if there was not compromise, and this is what Obama and the rest of the Democrats had in mind all along, then you are admitting that your previous accusations of them wanting "nationalized healthcare" are completely false, right?


So, which is it exactly? Are the Democrats trying to turn all healthcare into a socialist/nationalized system, or did they not compromise at all?

It can't be both.

First of all...secret meetings, bribery and corruption is not compromise....secondly I never said a damn thing about "nationalized healthcare"...I said Obama wants "single payer" and that's an indisputable fact. Third...you just glossed over the article I posted a link to that showed the first step to achieving this goal. 4th you completely ignored the fact that your definition of "single payer system" is WRONG.

Now please clear these things up.

LOL, caught in a logic trap, you go on the attack. That's typical.

The link you posted does not back up your assertion, taken in context with the rest of what he said.

Your logic is based on "chaos theory" in which you can pick and choose what to see when it suits your failed debating skills.

Carry on.

 

[Vast LWC]

Consumer debt is still falling. It is not rising.

Another good sign! Sweet.

Thanks for that Toro.

I am hoping like hell we've seen the last of this recession, and I'm thinking from the indicators that that is just what's happening.

I'm not going to say my opinion is definitive, I just happen to think that these are good signs.

Hey, what can I say? I'm an optimist. And a little optimism certainly doesn't hurt in a situation like this.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Consumer debt is still falling. It is not rising.

Another good sign! Sweet.

Thanks for that Toro.

I am hoping like hell we've seen the last of this recession, and I'm thinking from the indicators that that is just what's happening.

I'm not going to say my opinion is definitive, I just happen to think that these are good signs.

Hey, what can I say? I'm an optimist. And a little optimism certainly doesn't hurt in a situation like this.

Yes...bankruptcy rising is a wonderful sign...it means there are more job openings for lawyers!!!!

 

[Vast LWC]

The economy is doing much better than virtually every economist thought a year ago.

Yes, but every economist a year ago was not predicting the imminent and unavoidable collapse of the economy into a depression, were they?

That is what Rush has been predicting all along.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Consumer debt is still falling. It is not rising.

Another good sign! Sweet.

Case in point.

Your logic is based on "chaos theory" in which you can pick and choose what to see when it suits your failed debating skills.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

The economy is doing much better than virtually every economist thought a year ago.

Yes, but every economist a year ago was not predicting the imminent and unavoidable collapse of the economy into a depression, were they?

That is what Rush has been predicting all along.

and what you fail to realize is that Rush doesn't speak for, nor is he a leader of the Republican Party or conservatives. I could give a rat's ass what he said.

 

[Vast LWC]

Yes...bankruptcy rising is a wonderful sign...it means there are more job openings for lawyers!!!!

LOL, you always have some spin or rationalization for everything, don't you Patek?

Obama could be literally shitting gold bricks and you'd be saying "but they smell too bad to sell on the open market."

Seriously man, sometimes the glass is half full!

Cheer up!

 

[Vast LWC]

and what you fail to realize is that Rush doesn't speak for, nor is he a leader of the Republican Party or conservatives. I could give a rat's ass what he said.

Um, I didn't say you did actually.

I was responding to Toro's post, which referred to my post like 6 pages ago.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Yes...bankruptcy rising is a wonderful sign...it means there are more job openings for lawyers!!!!

LOL, you always have some spin or rationalization for everything, don't you Patek?

Obama could be literally shitting gold bricks and you'd be saying "but they smell too bad to sell on the open market."

Seriously man, sometimes the glass is half full!

Cheer up!

Look. I pointed out a legitimate factor thats causing consumer debt to fall and all you have is that?

Seriously man...look before you leap...you won't get so many knots on your head.

 

[Vast LWC]

LOL, well I have to go all.

It's been fun!

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Too funny...tax season is over...banks have written off hundreds of billions in consumer debt...so what do the banks do? They send out MORE pre-approved credit card offers to people so they can go right back into debt again.

When will you people see what's going on....WHEN?

 

[Toro]

So it's acceptable to you to go thousands of dollars in debt to give the appearance that the economy is recovering?

Consumer debt is still falling. It is not rising.

Ask yourself why consumer debt is falling....please. I can't believe you missed this one!!!!
Personal Bankruptcy Filings Continue to Rise in 2010 - Total Bankruptcy

Another metric to explain this is total interest payments relative to income, which has also been falling.

A big reason for this is because households paid off debt. This is known as "deleveraging." You can see it in the savings rate.

The savings rate spiked as people feared for their jobs. Now that people are starting to gain confidence, the rate of savings has fallen to about the average over the past few decades, and people are starting to spend again.

And, as we can see, personal disposable income is beginning to rise.

Besides, increasing credit card applications is a good thing, not a bad thing. It means that banks are starting to extend credit again.

Corporations have been taking full advantage of the re-opening of credit markets. High-yield debt issuance was near an all-time high, recently. Why is it good for corporations to be able to tap the credit markets and not consumers?

 

[Toro]

Yes...bankruptcy rising is a wonderful sign...it means there are more job openings for lawyers!!!!

Personal bankruptcies are a lagging indicator because employment is a lagging indicator. Personal bankruptcies usually peak after the economy has bottomed and has started to expand.

 

[Toro]

Look. I pointed out a legitimate factor thats causing consumer debt to fall and all you have is that?

Seriously man...look before you leap...you won't get so many knots on your head.

It is one legitimate reason why consumer debt is falling. Another is that banks are now offering lower lines of credit as old loans get paid off. Another is that people have paid down debt.

But you said that this is recovery is being driven by credit card spending. There is no evidence of that. If this is the case, please post it because I would like to see it.

 

[boedicca]

That is not a reduction of corporate earnings...

That is a reduction of taxpayer contributions to corporations. And the taxpayer contributions in question were "double-dipping" at that.

Unless you consider money that taxpayers give corporations to be somehow "earned" by the corporation.

Yes it is. The corporations were give tax credits to continue providing prescription drug coverage to their retirees. The per beneficiary credit is approx. $600 per year. This credit saved the U.S. government money because the providing the benefit via Medicare is much more expensive by a factor of at least 2X.

As a result, these companies will eventually drop prescription drug coverage and dump their retirees into Medicare, driving that program towards insolvency a bit earlier than currently expected.

A credible link before folks start laughing at you.

Here you go bub. I didn't recall the specific numbers precisely. The increase is not 2X, it's ONLY an increase of 81% in the cost to the government. Before ObamaCare, the cost per beneficiary was $665. Under ObamaCare, the cost will increase to $1,209.

(And please note how it is far cheaper for the company to move the retiree to Medicare.)

According to a report from the not-for-profit Employee Benefit Research Institute, each retiree who loses employer-based drug coverage and gains it through Medicare Part D will increase the government’s cost by $544.

Health Reform Forces Taxing Decision on Retiree Drug Plans

Here is Figure 8 from the report referenced (you can find the original in the PDF via the source link.)

 

[edthecynic]

I do not have the link handy and I am sure that you have seen the Youtube video that I would have pulled up anyway. He said, Universal, I won't question that, but he described nationalized.

And yes, it would have been a bad choice of phrases. He knew that so he didn't say "Nationalized". He said, Universal.

I never said he was an idiot.

Immie

You gotta love these CON$ervative mind-readers. CON$ are free to change anyone's words as they please because CON$ know that they were thinking.

September 5, 2008
RUSH:*** He didn't use those words, but that's what he meant

October 4, 2007
RUSH:* We're dealing here with the potential loss of meaning when others get to say what other people meant. This is a dangerous direction that we're headed in."

October 21, 2008
RUSH:** He didn't say it in those words, but that's exactly what he meant.

October 3, 2007
RUSH:* We've reached a new day, when interpreters are allowed to determine the meaning of words spoken by others.* What happens with that is the loss of meaning.

Mind reader? I never said I was a mind reader. I am taking him at his word.

I believe that is what he was speaking of. Perhaps it is because I believe that all politicians (regardless of party) are untrustworthy.

I don't bow down at your messiah's altar and beg to blow him as you do.

I am however, bringing up my fears and attempting to discuss with LWC and RW in a rational tone. I'd love it if you would join in, however, I've never noticed you discussing anything in a rational manner. You are a partisan troll, plain and simple. Not even worth the time it took to type this out.

Immie

You can't be honest about anything.

HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."

And please don't project your sexual fantasies on me.
Thank you.

 

[Immanuel]

You gotta love these CON$ervative mind-readers. CON$ are free to change anyone's words as they please because CON$ know that they were thinking.

September 5, 2008
RUSH:*** He didn't use those words, but that's what he meant

October 4, 2007
RUSH:* We're dealing here with the potential loss of meaning when others get to say what other people meant. This is a dangerous direction that we're headed in."

October 21, 2008
RUSH:** He didn't say it in those words, but that's exactly what he meant.

October 3, 2007
RUSH:* We've reached a new day, when interpreters are allowed to determine the meaning of words spoken by others.* What happens with that is the loss of meaning.

Mind reader? I never said I was a mind reader. I am taking him at his word.

I believe that is what he was speaking of. Perhaps it is because I believe that all politicians (regardless of party) are untrustworthy.

I don't bow down at your messiah's altar and beg to blow him as you do.

I am however, bringing up my fears and attempting to discuss with LWC and RW in a rational tone. I'd love it if you would join in, however, I've never noticed you discussing anything in a rational manner. You are a partisan troll, plain and simple. Not even worth the time it took to type this out.

Immie

You can't be honest about anything.

HIS word was "universal" and you didn't take him at HIS word. YOUR word, or more accurately your MessiahRushie's word, was "nationalize" and that's the word YOU used because you rationalized that's what was in his mind when he said "universal."

And please don't project your sexual fantasies on me.
Thank you.

Welcome back Michael Savage.

His words were "Single Payer Health Care". Which means Nationalized Health Care.

You have just been proven a liar.

Immie