Dogs refuse to eat vegan "meat"...

Another one of those loons that think that milking hurts a cow. YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you think about when you think of milking a cow? Some guy sitting on a bench with a bucket underneath the cow and milking her? Maybe milking her like this isn't painful. Like on the family farm the way it was before 1950.



But since factory farming came into play cows are not milked this way anymore. They are indeed in a factory setting where everything is mechanized. And the milking process is also mechanized. They're udders also are grossly larger than they should be to the point where some cows cannot even walk naturally anymore. It's very very painful for them. And the way they are milked is with a machine. Often, the cow is not hooked up to these machines properly and it causes them extreme pain. Pain they cannot stop because they are like a caged animal, they cannot move to get away from the pain, they are forced to endure it. They have no choice in a factory farm set. There is more pus in your milk then you can imagine because these so called farmers don't care if the cow has sore nipples while they're milking they milk them anyway. They bleed and they get infected and all this goes into your milk. These animals suffer terribly.



When after just a few years of this abuse and pain, oh like five or six, when a cow is used to living to 20 years when living naturally before 1950 on a family farm, after these few short years of milking her incessantly like this, she becomes a spent cow. This is the word they use for a cow that is no longer useful for milking. These cows go to slaughter and lots of times become hamburger or dog food because they are so sick they are not good for any other kind of flesh food. Often they cannot walk. So these so-called farmers will hook her up by a foot to a heavy metal chain and drag her while she screams, or they will pick her up in a front loader like they use to dig dirt with, the big front loaders metal scoop will pick up the cow and they will dump her in the trucks that take them to slaughter where she can often time break limbs or even have her back broken. They don't care how she makes it to slaughter or how she suffers along the way. Imagine this animal is your cat or dog that you love dearly who is your family member. This cow feels the very same things that your cat or dog would in the same circumstance.



FJB said they are perfectly fine with factory farm settings in today's world because she knows they are treated humanely. Better look again, there is NOTHING Humane about factory farm settings. FJB also agreed that treating animals cruelly is a sin. So there's a clear contradiction in behavior here.



Look, vegans are simply wanting kindness to all animals not just some. Christian vegans the same, only we want to help people understand that God did not create animals for us to eat or abuse the way we are doing so today. It's just that simple. God wants us to be merciful, kind, loving, just in all the things we do toward one another, toward his animals, and toward the earth. If something we participate in people causes abuse to animals whether it's our cats or our dogs, or any other living creature that we all profess feel pain and suffer the same as you or I or our cat or dog would in the same circumstances, then we should stop doing it. I truly have come to believe in the short time I've been in this thread reading the comments that most people simply want to justify the fact that they love the taste of meat and they don't want to change, even when they find out that they are participating in extreme abuse to animals and somewhere deep down inside they know it's wrong, that's why y'all get so defensive. That my friends is God's Spirit convicting you that you need to look a little closer. For those who say you can't tell me what to do, sounds a little bit like the original sin where you just want to do it your own way and you don't want to obey God when he clearly is asking you to do everything in love, even if that means giving up something that your flesh desires because not to give it up is causing harm to someone else and is not loving and is not kind and is not merciful.



We might not be judged for eating animals on judgment Day. But we will be judged for causing them harm of ANY kind. We will be judged not on what was permissible to do. But what was permissible to do and was not done in love. In other words if something is permissible but cannot be done in love, then we should not do it at all. It is really that simple folks. This is how God will judge us. Did we act and behave and talk kindly and mercifully toward everyone and did we treat animals and the Earth with kindness and mercy and love as well.
 
kathydunn None of us are going to stop eating meat that do because we don't feel the same way you do. So please leave me and my friend OhPleaseJustQuit alone and that's not me getting defensive. That's me asking you nicely. The next time you try messing with one of my friends with all this preachy bullshit that they don't want to hear it's not going to be so nice. We've asked you to stop and drop it so please stop it. Also you do not have any proof of any of this you're just some random stranger off the internet expecting me to just go ahead and believe it. :rolleyes:
 
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What do you think about when you think of milking a cow? Some guy sitting on a bench with a bucket underneath the cow and milking her? Maybe milking her like this isn't painful. Like on the family farm the way it was before 1950.



But since factory farming came into play cows are not milked this way anymore. They are indeed in a factory setting where everything is mechanized. And the milking process is also mechanized. They're udders also are grossly larger than they should be to the point where some cows cannot even walk naturally anymore. It's very very painful for them. And the way they are milked is with a machine. Often, the cow is not hooked up to these machines properly and it causes them extreme pain. Pain they cannot stop because they are like a caged animal, they cannot move to get away from the pain, they are forced to endure it. They have no choice in a factory farm set. There is more pus in your milk then you can imagine because these so called farmers don't care if the cow has sore nipples while they're milking they milk them anyway. They bleed and they get infected and all this goes into your milk. These animals suffer terribly.



When after just a few years of this abuse and pain, oh like five or six, when a cow is used to living to 20 years when living naturally before 1950 on a family farm, after these few short years of milking her incessantly like this, she becomes a spent cow. This is the word they use for a cow that is no longer useful for milking. These cows go to slaughter and lots of times become hamburger or dog food because they are so sick they are not good for any other kind of flesh food. Often they cannot walk. So these so-called farmers will hook her up by a foot to a heavy metal chain and drag her while she screams, or they will pick her up in a front loader like they use to dig dirt with, the big front loaders metal scoop will pick up the cow and they will dump her in the trucks that take them to slaughter where she can often time break limbs or even have her back broken. They don't care how she makes it to slaughter or how she suffers along the way. Imagine this animal is your cat or dog that you love dearly who is your family member. This cow feels the very same things that your cat or dog would in the same circumstance.



FJB said they are perfectly fine with factory farm settings in today's world because she knows they are treated humanely. Better look again, there is NOTHING Humane about factory farm settings. FJB also agreed that treating animals cruelly is a sin. So there's a clear contradiction in behavior here.



Look, vegans are simply wanting kindness to all animals not just some. Christian vegans the same, only we want to help people understand that God did not create animals for us to eat or abuse the way we are doing so today. It's just that simple. God wants us to be merciful, kind, loving, just in all the things we do toward one another, toward his animals, and toward the earth. If something we participate in people causes abuse to animals whether it's our cats or our dogs, or any other living creature that we all profess feel pain and suffer the same as you or I or our cat or dog would in the same circumstances, then we should stop doing it. I truly have come to believe in the short time I've been in this thread reading the comments that most people simply want to justify the fact that they love the taste of meat and they don't want to change, even when they find out that they are participating in extreme abuse to animals and somewhere deep down inside they know it's wrong, that's why y'all get so defensive. That my friends is God's Spirit convicting you that you need to look a little closer. For those who say you can't tell me what to do, sounds a little bit like the original sin where you just want to do it your own way and you don't want to obey God when he clearly is asking you to do everything in love, even if that means giving up something that your flesh desires because not to give it up is causing harm to someone else and is not loving and is not kind and is not merciful.



We might not be judged for eating animals on judgment Day. But we will be judged for causing them harm of ANY kind. We will be judged not on what was permissible to do. But what was permissible to do and was not done in love. In other words if something is permissible but cannot be done in love, then we should not do it at all. It is really that simple folks. This is how God will judge us. Did we act and behave and talk kindly and mercifully toward everyone and did we treat animals and the Earth with kindness and mercy and love as well.

Another shill, paid by the word.
 
kathydunn None of us are going to stop eating meat that do because we don't feel the same way you do. So please leave me and my friend OhPleaseJustQuit alone and that's not me getting defensive. That's me asking you nicely. The next time you try messing with one of my friends with all this preachy bullshit that they don't want to hear it's not going to be so nice. We've asked you to stop and drop it so please stop it. Also you do not have any proof of any of this you're just some random stranger off the internet expecting me to just go ahead and believe it. :rolleyes:

Awwww. Let the sanctimonious babies whine. Anyone who'll write so many words of bullshit, just to make themselves feel superior, obviously has nothing better to do. Whether these idiots have a life or not is not our business. I can't even feel sorry for them.
 
I normally appreciate your point of view. When you start proselytizing, things change.

Mods, shouldn't this thread be moved to the religion forum?
proselytizing: expressing an opinion you don't want to hear.

Doesn't change the fact that you can't refute the horrible animal abuse she cited, so you make an effort to bully. I point that out, now you want to silence me

I sware, you guys will try every angle

The funniest is your effort to equate the way we treat sentient animals with a stalk of corn. You try so hard, gotta give you credit for that.

If you don't like these anti vegan threads don't join in. Simple as that.
 
kathydunn None of us are going to stop eating meat that do because we don't feel the same way you do. So please leave me and my friend alone and that's not me getting defensive. That's me asking you nicely. The next time you try messing with one of my friends with all this preachy bullshit that they don't want to hear it's not going to be so nice. We've asked you to stop and drop it so please stop it. Also you do not have any proof of any of this you're just some random stranger off the internet expecting me to just go ahead and believe it. :rolleyes:

I can understand, you don't know me. I'm newer to this forum. I did not mean you any harm nor did I want to come off as preachy. I hope you'll hear me out one last time and then we can just drop it if you like.

Please hear me out one last time. I promise I won't be preachy. I'll just tell you my story, and that's all. You can do with it what you want. All I really wanted to do was encourage you to look around with an open mind and open heart and do your own research.

My husband and I both used to eat meat. I was into environmental activism and did some animal advocacy for organizations like Animal Humane society and so on trying to help rescue abused and homeless cats and dogs. One day I was sitting at work and I ran across a video of a coon dog being skinned alive for his or her fur. The poor animal was struggling her hind legs kicking back and forth as the man had his foot on her head and was pulling the fur off the body. I watched the fur come off the body while the animal was kicking and screaming. After all the fur and skin was off the body, he tossed the skinless body in a pile of them that had already been skinned this way. I watched in more horror as the body continued to move around, her head looking into the camera, and I watched as the light in her eyes went out and she died. It took a while for her to die. I was completely horrified and traumatized. I had to go into the bathroom and weep.

This was in 2009. At that point I had to know everything that was going on in our world and why on Earth would someone do this to an animal for fur. I discovered a whole lot more Injustice going on, including to animals in entertainment, hunting, live exports, Vivisection, etc, and on factory farms used for food.

Up unto this point in my life I had truly thought that animals were treated humanely in all these industries. I grew up in the sixties in a small farming community. As I was researching what is happening two animals for fur, entertainment experimentation in medicine, I also did some research on what is happening to animals for food. I discovered that family farms like we had, had all but vanished, and something called cafos, or confined animal feeding operations, had taken their place. I discovered how cruelly almost all farmed animals are raised today. Most farmed animals, all chickens for example and most pigs, have been taken off the land and put into warehouses, confined in ways that are completely unnatural. Most never see the light of day. I learned there are no Animal welfare laws protecting them, that the industry can pretty much get away with doing anything they want, that their welfare isn't important they are just a number. It is the same for animals in Vivisection. Each industry has its own industry standards, allowing for more abuse for certain animals depending on what it is humans want to use them for.

Discovering these things completely changed my life. I became vegan overnight. I tried to convince my husband of what was going on but he refused to see. It almost broke up our marriage. But we did eventually find some compromise. I asked myself where is the church in this terrible Injustice. I had grown up believing that we were given permission to eat animals. I soon discovered that when the world began to change in the 60s and factory farming took over small farms, the animal husbandry that used to be practiced disappeared along with most family farms. I also found a church called Woodland Hills Church and a teaching pastor named Greg Boyd who is actually quite a famous theologian. Through his teaching I learned there are other ways to look at the Bible. And I learned that we were created as stewards and that what we are doing to the Earth and animals isn't what God intended.

There is a whole lot more I've learned but it would become a book and I'm sorry, I know this is getting long now already.

I think most of us who come to forums like this are pretty passionate people. I have been blind to all that has been going on in this world. I spent most of my adult life blissfully unaware of what was really going on as our world has become more and more industry driven. What I discovered in all that research has turned me into quite a passionate person about this topic. Anyone can do the research and come up with the same facts.

I'm old enough to remember a day when animals were treated kindly on small farms and animals were not skinned alive for their fur. In those days, even though we used them for their milk and eggs, and butchered them for their flesh to eat, back in the 50s and early 60s and even further back, their welfare mattered. Farmers took the time to understand their needs and made sure they were met. They cared for them. They nurtured them. And when it came time to butcher them, they were careful to do so without causing a lot of pain and suffering. At least that's the small farming that I grew up around. Not all small farms I'm sure were as kind to their animals as I witnessed. But I would venture to say they were all a whole hell of a lot kinder than they are today.

The world in which we live in today doesn't do any of this anymore. You don't have to trust me and what I say. You can do your own homework, your own research. And maybe you don't want to. I didn't want to do the research either to begin with, especially the research on the factory farming and food animals. It was really hard because a part of me didn't want to give up eating meat. I really liked certain aspects of eating flesh foods. For me my conscience got to me, and I couldn't live knowing that my actions weren't lining up with my values.

I have been vegan now since 2010. I have found many substitutes, all the vegan options like Morningstar Farms, Beyond Meat, Gardein products, all to be quite tasty. And I pretty much eat the same way I always did. I make delicious meatless chili, meatless spaghetti, and any number of other meals. I feel healthier than I used to feel. But most of all, in my heart I know I live up to my values as best I can in this world filled with deception. The industries that surround us would deceive the consumer and keep us blissfully unaware of what they are doing because it is profitable and because they are powerful. They control the markets, and they can control our lives in many ways as well.

Something to think about. And please don't get mad at me, this was my story you can take it or leave it. I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat. My eyes were open to the reality of the world and I couldn't turn away. I just hope more people will be willing to look. That's all. I care about the welfare of people as well as the welfare of animals and the welfare of the planet. These big industries don't care about our welfare. They only care about their pocketbooks.
 
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Just curious. Should every abortion right thread be cast down to the religion forum? Aren't both of these about far more than a person's religion?
 
Sounds like the fucking Democrats. Isn't there a way to shut these people up? Where's the mute button?
Actually, you sound like a liberal. You and your ilk continually post these kinds of thread mocking people you don't agree with. When they respond you start whining about being "preached" to and run to the mods to silence the people YOU MOCK IN THESE Threads. In case you forgot the thread topic simply read the title again.

The fact is, you can't stop posting anti-vegan threads. And when you do, you get mad when about 3 people tell you why they don't agree with animal cruelty.

Face it. You don't like hearing that you support this but you're unwilling to just let it go.
 
Actually, you sound like a liberal. You and your ilk continually post these kinds of thread mocking people you don't agree with. When they respond you start whining about being "preached" to and run to the mods to silence the people YOU MOCK IN THESE Threads. In case you forgot the thread topic simply read the title again.

The fact is, you can't stop posting anti-vegan threads. And when you do, you get mad when about 3 people tell you why they don't agree with animal cruelty.

Face it. You don't like hearing that you support this but you're unwilling to just let it go.
OhPleaseJustQuit your "funny" is just whistling past the graveyard
You have yet to post a rational argument in defense of doing to animals what you would go to jail for if you did that to a dog or cat
 
OhPleaseJustQuit your "funny" is just whistling past the graveyard
You have yet to post a rational argument in defense of doing to animals what you would go to jail for if you did that to a dog or cat

Your opinion is noted.

I'd still like to know what your holier-than-thou pontificating has to do with the fact that dogs won't eat non-food.

But whatever.

You're funny.
 
We cannot tell by the Genesis story if animals were created in the present form they are in now. It is impossible to know that. It is speculation, but likely the animals in the garden were quite different than the ones we now know. It was sin, which is separation from God, that brought violence into the creation. Man became violent, as depicted by the Cain and Abel story.

Genesis 1:30 says that animals were herbivorous. The diet in Genesis 1:29 prescribed seed bearing plants, fruits and vegetation, to man and the green grass and other vegetation to the animals. So there was no perfect predatory system in the garden of eden. Animals could have been very different. Adaptation to a sinful fallen world where men no longer are in proper relationship over the animals may drive them to evolve in ways to survive. We don't know if mosquitoes and other insects designed to serve the purposes they do in this fallen world even existed in the garden of Eden.

What you describe is a fallen world. Paradise would have looked far different than this, and the world to come will look far different from it again in the new age. There were no breaking of bones in paradise. We are told very little about the creation story and what the world looked like. But we can surmise a lot about it given what God says his heart is in passages in Isaiah where the lion lives with the lamb, the child puts her hand in the Cobra's den, children leading wild animals, and other prophetic books that describe Paradise as a place of peace and that clearly tell us that God wants peace between all aspects of his creation.

Other clues that God's Paradise was far different and that God's heart for all his creation is for peace, is written all throughout scripture. One of the ten commandments tells us not to kill. Almost all of scripture after the fall is God reaching into this world to try to pull us back to him and reject other gods, to get us to do justly, to love mercy, to love kindness, to stop killing each other and the animals, and instead to create a world that is just and looks more like the passages in Isaiah that were aforementioned.
I can respect your view, but not agree. The Creation story is at least as detailed as genesis in confirming how creation occurred and in one span of time, enough so that people use it to denounce evolution which is the only way to then account for new species. Because the Bible is full of contradictions, you can find plenty of examples of a non peaceful God as well as a loving God. I will say though, I far prefer your view of it, then that of many others. For me personally, Jesus’ one commandment sums up how we should behave and treat the world around us and every living creature without the stretch of having to believe all were created as vegetarians. I appreciate this discussion and it’s civility :)
 
Has anyone read this book? The exploitation of domestic is a real issue, but domestication is actually a mutually beneficial choice. My biggest beef with groups like PETA is they believe all animal domestication is abusive and should end, including pets, but that ignores how this partnership developed.

Amazon product
 
Because the Bible is full of contradictions,
PLEASE start a thread on this. You or Westwall.

I'm sick of this lie. I DARE any to debate this.

If I engage in this conversation here, airhead "Christians" like our occult lovng "Christian's will whine about "preaching."

If you're gonna lie like this at least make these ridiculous assertions in the proper forum so I can clean your clock
 
PLEASE start a thread on this. You or Westwall.

I'm sick of this lie. I DARE any to debate this.

If I engage in this conversation here, airhead "Christians" like our occult lovng "Christian's will whine about "preaching."

If you're gonna lie like this at least make these ridiculous assertions in the proper forum so I can clean your clock
You are free to start a thread on it, I’m just giving my opinion, like you do. Start it in religion if you want to keep it civil.
 

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