Does Nature have a preference for life to exist?

[Natural Citizen]

I can see no flaw in their thinking. It looks delicious.

Yeah. Humanity do tend to tailor the Word to accommodate its worldly indulgences. It's become its own foundation for moral code. Crazy.

I'll give it another hundred years or so and we'll likely have destroyed ourselves. All in the name of the Lord, like most other travesties throught history, I imagine.

 

[ding]

I got that part. The part I didn't get was the basis of this belief. That seems sort of nuts to me. You know, believing something without any basis for the belief.

The part where any reasonable person might think you’re nuts?

Because?

I’m good with you thinking and believing anything you want. Don’t act surprised when others question your sanity.

And I'm good with others seeing me any way they want. No skin off my back. I was just curious if you had a reason for your belief is all.

Years of helping our nursing dept with psych patients has taught me a lot.
Whenever I see someone saying/doing something weird, I assume they're weird.

What have I done or said that was weird?

 

[ding]

I can see no flaw in their thinking. It looks delicious.

Yeah. Humanity do tend to tailor the Word to accommodate its worldly indulgences. It's become its own foundation for moral code. Crazy.

The thing is that error can't stand. Eventually it fails. So we can't just make up any old moral code. The proof is always in the pudding.

 

[buttercup]

It is completely absurd to think that intelligence came from non-intelligence, life came from nonlife, complexity came from dumb luck, and things like love, truth, goodness, beauty and wisdom came from a mindless, impersonal force.

But hey, I get why people don’t want to believe. No one likes being accountable to a higher power.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I'm still giggling about the idea of us being intelligent. lol. We're destroying the only known planet in the universe that can support our silly rear ends. We're the worst pollution in the entire universe. We're a detriment to nature.

 

[ding]

I'm still giggling about the idea of us being intelligent. lol. We're destroying the only known planet in the universe that can support our silly rear ends. We're the worst pollution in the entire universe. We're a detriment to nature.

That doesn't seem like a very balanced view of humanity.

It seems that your accounting only includes the bad things and ignores all of the good things.

 

[buttercup]

I'm still giggling about the idea of us being intelligent. lol. We're destroying the only known planet in the universe that can support our silly rear ends. We're the worst pollution in the entire universe. We're a detriment to nature.

I would say that intelligence and wisdom are two different things. But also, I think that selfishness and greed have a lot to do with the destruction of this planet. We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

 

[Montrovant]

What biological laws are you talking about?

The will to survive for one. Nature has programmed into us the will to survive. Why?

Rather chance has eliminated life that doesn’t have the inherent will to survive. In fact it’s eliminated many that had the will but lacked the means...

All life will fight to survive. It's part of it's DNA so to speak. All life forms are constantly evolving to survive. Just because most fail does not mean it's existence wasn't part of nature trying to evolve and complexify.

Just because it “succeeds” doesn’t mean chance didn’t not wipe it out. And in time... It will be wiped out, as 99% of all species have. At what point do you say most life has lost the will to survive?

Never. It is a requirement for intelligence to evolve. Life must sustain and survive long enough for intelligence to evolve.

The universe is an intelligence creating machine.

Are you a proponent of some variant of the anthropic principle?

 

[ding]

The will to survive for one. Nature has programmed into us the will to survive. Why?

Rather chance has eliminated life that doesn’t have the inherent will to survive. In fact it’s eliminated many that had the will but lacked the means...

All life will fight to survive. It's part of it's DNA so to speak. All life forms are constantly evolving to survive. Just because most fail does not mean it's existence wasn't part of nature trying to evolve and complexify.

Just because it “succeeds” doesn’t mean chance didn’t not wipe it out. And in time... It will be wiped out, as 99% of all species have. At what point do you say most life has lost the will to survive?

Never. It is a requirement for intelligence to evolve. Life must sustain and survive long enough for intelligence to evolve.

The universe is an intelligence creating machine.

Are you a proponent of some variant of the anthropic principle?

I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

It's never entered my thinking.

My thinking is more about the direction and what that tells us.

 

[Montrovant]

Rather chance has eliminated life that doesn’t have the inherent will to survive. In fact it’s eliminated many that had the will but lacked the means...

All life will fight to survive. It's part of it's DNA so to speak. All life forms are constantly evolving to survive. Just because most fail does not mean it's existence wasn't part of nature trying to evolve and complexify.

Just because it “succeeds” doesn’t mean chance didn’t not wipe it out. And in time... It will be wiped out, as 99% of all species have. At what point do you say most life has lost the will to survive?

Never. It is a requirement for intelligence to evolve. Life must sustain and survive long enough for intelligence to evolve.

The universe is an intelligence creating machine.

Are you a proponent of some variant of the anthropic principle?

I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

It's never entered my thinking.

My thinking is more about the direction and what that tells us.

I asked because the principle came up in another thread recently, and one variation of it says that intelligence was destined to evolve, or is even required to evolve, in the universe. That sounds very much like your stated beliefs in this thread.

 

[ding]

All life will fight to survive. It's part of it's DNA so to speak. All life forms are constantly evolving to survive. Just because most fail does not mean it's existence wasn't part of nature trying to evolve and complexify.

Just because it “succeeds” doesn’t mean chance didn’t not wipe it out. And in time... It will be wiped out, as 99% of all species have. At what point do you say most life has lost the will to survive?

Never. It is a requirement for intelligence to evolve. Life must sustain and survive long enough for intelligence to evolve.

The universe is an intelligence creating machine.

Are you a proponent of some variant of the anthropic principle?

I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

It's never entered my thinking.

My thinking is more about the direction and what that tells us.

I asked because the principle came up in another thread recently, and one variation of it says that intelligence was destined to evolve, or is even required to evolve, in the universe. That sounds very much like your stated beliefs in this thread.

I agree with that. We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that given enough time and the right conditions intelligence will emerge.

It's the basis for SETI searching for intelligence in the universe. Are those guys wasting their time?

 

[Natural Citizen]

We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

zacly. So much for perfection. Apparently, He saw that it was Good.

 

[ding]

We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

zacly. So much for perfection.

And learning from it. Like every stage of evolution before it, consciousness is evolving too.

 

[buttercup]

We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

zacly. So much for perfection.

Who said that we were perfect?

 

[ding]

Or needed to be.

 

[ding]

God does not expect us to do perfect things. God expects us to be perfect. Many a saint has pondered what this means.

 

[Natural Citizen]

And learning from it. Like every stage of evolution before it, consciousness is evolving too.

We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

zacly. So much for perfection.

Who said that we were perfect?

Hey, you're the one who said we've been screwing up since the dawn of time. And since God is the creator of time, and since He saw it and said it was good, I figure we were doomed from the start. Like some kind of sadistic joke on us.

 

[ding]

And learning from it. Like every stage of evolution before it, consciousness is evolving too.

We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

zacly. So much for perfection.

Who said that we were perfect?

Hey, you're the one who said we've been screwing up since the dawn of time. And since God is the creator of time, and since He saw it and said it was good, I figure we were doomed from the start. Like some kind osf sadistic joke on us.

Maybe you don't understand how it all works together. I know I don't, but I trust he does.

 

[buttercup]

And learning from it. Like every stage of evolution before it, consciousness is evolving too.

We’ve been screwing up since the dawn of time.

zacly. So much for perfection.

Who said that we were perfect?

Hey, you're the one who said we've been screwing up since the dawn of time. And since God is the creator of time, and since He saw it and said it was good, I figure we were doomed from the start. Like some kind osf sadistic joke on us.

Well, human beings are capable of both bad and good. We have a conscience, which is a good thing, and we have free will, which is also good but unfortunately people misuse that free will, and go against their conscience. Don’t blame God for what people choose to do.

The alternative would be people without free will… In other words, the creation of puppets or robots, pre-programmed to act a certain way with no choice of their own. Would you prefer that?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Maybe you don't understand how it all works together. I know I don't, but I trust he does.

Yeah, I have no idea how it all works together.

Well, human beings are capable of both bad and good. We have a conscience, which is a good thing, and we have free will, which is also good but unfortunately people misuse that free will, and go against their conscience. Don’t blame God for what people choose to do.

The alternative would be people without free will… In other words, the creation of puppets or robots, pre-programmed to act a certain way with no choice of their own. Would you prefer that?

Well, we kind of already have the latter if you think about it. Willfully, even.