Zone1 Do you get a lot of misogyny when you ditch MARY in your religion?

[hadit]

Where is the Biblical support that anyone, much less Mary, is in Heaven?

That is true. Scripture indicates the dead are asleep, awaiting judgement.

 

[MarcATL]

That is true. Scripture indicates the dead are asleep, awaiting judgement.

Only two people are currently in Heaven from the Bible: Enoch and Elijah.

 

[notmyfault2020]

That is true. Scripture indicates the dead are asleep, awaiting judgement.

If you areconceived w/o original sin, you do not merely sleep but go to Heaven

and everyone is judged as soon as he or she dies, you don't await your own personal judgment. It happens at death or shortly thereafter.

 

[hadit]

as if I have not done that?

I know just about every way there is to pray. God gave us Mary for a reason. I don't know all that God had in mind or why he set things up as he did in His Church. All I know (again) is that praying to Mary helps me. And if you think i am going to give up something that does me much good and helps me to feel close to God.. you are the one who is wrong

If I say I follow Christ, I'm going to pray like He taught us to pray, and He never indicated we were to pray to ordinary people. Nowhere in Scripture does it indicate that Mary was given to us for any reason other than to be Jesus' earthly, human mother.

 

[hadit]

If you areconceived w/o original sin, you do not merely sleep but go to Heaven

and everyone is judged as soon as he or she dies, you don't await your own personal judgment. It happens at death or shortly thereafter.

And now you're flat out contradicting what Jesus Himself explicitly said. How do you call yourself a Christian when you can do that?

 

[buttercup]

Where is the Biblical support that anyone, much less Mary, is in Heaven?

That is true. Scripture indicates the dead are asleep, awaiting judgement.

What about 2 Corinthians 5:8? Or Luke 23:43? As of now I don't think soul sleep is biblical. But I'm willing to change my view on that, if anyone can prove it scripturally.

 

[Batcat]

I never said anything about praying to a statue. Statues help us to think of Mary so I am not against them. i am against thecorruption in the Church.. how the novus ordo Church is supporting illegals, helping them, even as they preach that we should obey al man's laws.. (well, they don' even do that much anymore but it is implied that you obey the laws)

So anyhow I am against corruption in the Church... un-Christian attitude of some priests and etc... but I will not reject something like praying to Mary bc again, it helps me and I need all the help I can get

I don’t consider it a big deal even though praying to Mary in front of her statue is not for me. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[MarcATL]

What about 2 Corinthians 5:8? Or Luke 23:43? As of now I don't think soul sleep is biblical. But I'm willing to change my view on that, if anyone can prove it scripturally.

You use the term "soul sleep" in a derogatory way, when that's the actual Biblical principle a Christian should hold about death.

If not "soul sleep", then you believe in "soul split?"

Basically, the body is here on earth, or whatever, and the spirt (conscious) is somewhere, say heaven, or hell?

Is that a correct understanding of your belief?

 

[notmyfault2020]

And now you're flat out contradicting what Jesus Himself explicitly said. How do you call yourself a Christian when you can do that?

I don't know how I call myself a Christian

just seems like the thing to do..

 

[notmyfault2020]

If I say I follow Christ, I'm going to pray like He taught us to pray, and He never indicated we were to pray to ordinary people. Nowhere in Scripture does it indicate that Mary was given to us for any reason other than to be Jesus' earthly, human mother.

Well, one of us has actually TRIED it (praying to Mary)

There's that

 

[buttercup]

You use the term "soul sleep" in a derogatory way, when that's the actual Biblical principle a Christian should hold about death.

If not "soul sleep", then you believe in "soul split?"

Basically, the body is here on earth, or whatever, and the spirt (conscious) is somewhere, say heaven, or hell?

Is that a correct understanding of your belief?

That was not meant to be derogatory, and I didn't make up that phrase... it's just a common phrase to describe that position. (I didn't know of another way to refer to it.)

Like I said, I'm open to changing my view on this, but as of now, I haven't seen enough biblical evidence to believe that view, and there's quite a bit that contradicts it.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but based on my understanding of the scriptures as of now... I believe that when we die our soul/spirit immediately goes either to heaven or hell. But it's a temporary heaven or hell, until the final resurrection and judgement.

And not that the majority is always right (I don't believe that) but based on what I've seen, the standard mainstream position on this topic is the view that immediately upon death, we are with God, or in the other place, awaiting the final judgement.

ETA: Btw, I started a thread on this topic last year. Here it is if anyone wants to take a look: Is "soul sleep" biblical?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

{shrugs shoulders} ... that is what it says in the Bible ...

No, they are not to be silent. Mary had her own ministry as did the other women that followed Christ. Pay attention:

ONE CHURCH had women in it that were going to a soothsayer and then getting up in that church and prophesying that their visions were from God. They were not, so they were told to shut those women up. The same person that told them to quiet those women had females helping him in his ministry. Christ's own mother preached and taught the good news in Ephesus until she died.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Well, one of us has actually TRIED it (praying to Mary)

There's that

Why pray to a human when you can pray directly to the Father? What miracles did Mary preform? Did she answer prayer here? Did she raise the dead?
When Christ died, the foot thick, linen veil in the Temple that separated us from the Father was torn from top to bottom and Christ sprinkled HIS blood on that alter, and gave us back our direct connection to God again with nothing standing between us. When Christ taught the disciples how to pray, who did Jesus address the prayer to? > Our Father, which is in Heaven... Not to mom, or Paul, or Peter...
Mary, that little 14 year old girl, never flinched when God asked her to do something that should have gotten her stoned to death. And then she watched her boy, beaten beyond recognition, die a brutal death. God bless that woman's soul and give her all the glory and honor she has coming. They don't come any stronger...

 

[notmyfault2020]

I don’t consider it a big deal even though praying to Mary in front of her statue is not for me. Different strokes for different folks.

I have been Catholic all my life (not a good one when young but maybe that goes w/o saying?)

and yet have never prayed b4 a statue. But I do converse with and invoke the name of Mary because again, she helps me.. to have peace in the midst of this crazy world.. etc..

 

[notmyfault2020]

Why pray to a human when you can pray directly to the Father?

no offense, but I am getting seriously bored with this hackneyed Q protestants always bring up

you are no longer merely human when u are in Heaven.

 

[The Irish Ram]

They don't always bring it up. You aren't backing up what you say, and can't. Nowhere in the Bible does it instruct us to pray to Mary. Nowhere does it say that she will answer prayer when she dies. Jesus didn't pray to Mary. He didn't instruct His disciples to pray to Mary. SHE was a disciple, and considered her son as her Savior.
Pray the way He taught us to pray and you can't go wrong...
Stop pulling the protestant ve catholic bullshit. I'm debating what you are saying, not the pros and cons of various religious factions...

 

[Batcat]

I have been Catholic all my life (not a good one when young but maybe that goes w/o saying?)

and yet have never prayed b4 a statue. But I do converse with and invoke the name of Mary because again, she helps me.. to have peace in the midst of this crazy world.. etc..

So to you Mary has the power of God.

I don’t pray to Mary. I pray to God as Jesus directed me to or to Jesus himself.

Should We Pray to Jesus?

Two clear principles are shown to us in the Bible: Prayer is ordinarily directed to the Father, but we should also pray to the Son.

www.christianity.com

As I pointed out above I don’t believe praying to Mary is a deal killer. I am not trying to discourage you in any way.

 

[MarcATL]

That was not meant to be derogatory, and I didn't make up that phrase... it's just a common phrase to describe that position. (I didn't know of another way to refer to it.)

Like I said, I'm open to changing my view on this, but as of now, I haven't seen enough biblical evidence to believe that view, and there's quite a bit that contradicts it.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but based on my understanding of the scriptures as of now... I believe that when we die our soul/spirit immediately goes either to heaven or hell. But it's a temporary heaven or hell, until the final resurrection and judgement.

And not that the majority is always right (I don't believe that) but based on what I've seen, the standard mainstream position on this topic is the view that immediately upon death, we are with God, or in the other place, awaiting the final judgement.

ETA: Btw, I started a thread on this topic last year. Here it is if anyone wants to take a look: Is "soul sleep" biblical?

Do you agree that text without context, is pretext?

And do you believe that the Bible does not contradict itself?

 

[MarcATL]

no offense, but I am getting seriously bored with this hackneyed Q protestants always bring up

you are no longer merely human when u are in Heaven.

What are you then, if not human?

 

[ReinyDays]

But I am supposed to follow some yahoo on the internet who instructs me to ditch Mary because he does?

ha ha..

hypocritical

Did I say "ditch Mary" ... no I didn't ... that's not very Christian of you to be lying ...

Oh ... I get it ... you're a heathen troll looking to stir up crap ...

I said if you worship Mary before God, you're an idoliter ... that has nothing to do with Mary ...