Do You Believe Based on Evidence, Russia Changed Outcome of 2016 Election

[Geaux4it]

I guess Mueller will find collusion when we find Obama's transcripts

-Geaux

 

[Auld Phart]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

and just as likely the 'known fact it was Hillarys turn', which polls kept proving, kept voters at home, instead of going to the polls and ensuring it.

those that didn't vote have no say whatsoever. they are dismissed & rightly so.

and they MAY be the reason Hillary lost in those states

hillary lost the electoral college. by some 75K votes.

and how many votes did Gore lose the EC by?

Less than 500, in ONE state.

 

[Some Guy]

The only argument that you could make is that Russia hacking the DNC server led to a series of events that ultimately cost Hillary the election. I don't have much sympathy for the DNC for not being secure enough, and i'm certainly not going to make th argument that it's not a good thing that someone's corruption wasn't out in the open as Hillary's was. If Russia didn't hack the DNC then Hillary maybe doesn't have the email scandal hanging over her head and therefore a handful more people don't see her as the toxic corrupt politician that she really is and it's enough to get over the hump.

Conversely, Trump was the only candidate in the election that was selling hope for something better. Hillary was "i'm not Trump and it's my turn." If Trump wasn't so unlikable as a person, he would've won even more convincingly. Obama taught us in 2008 that people who aren't already in the tank for one of the teams will actually show up and vote for someone who gives them hope. If there's no hope for something better... something more than "i'm not the other guy", then people won't care.

Turnout will continue to plunge as the RNC and DNC continue to devolve into warring tribes who only want their fist to be the iron one of the law with no regard whatsoever for people's rights.

 

[playtime]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

and just as likely the 'known fact it was Hillarys turn', which polls kept proving, kept voters at home, instead of going to the polls and ensuring it.

those that didn't vote have no say whatsoever. they are dismissed & rightly so.

Of course we have a say. Especially if we spent over a year criticizing both candidates. Both sides had been presented with plenty of information about the candidates for years, and still the two worst possible candidates won the primaries. Why then should non-voters be dragged into the shit show they had no part in creating?

a fucking WRITE - IN is better than not voting at all. if you let others decide your fate without an input, then ya--- stfu.

 

[kwc57]

I begged the DNC to run Hillary as their candidate on this and other forums because I knew she couldn't get elected to dogcatcher with her baggage. Thank God the clueless DNC totally gamed the system with supper delegates and screwing over Bernie to make sure she had every unfair advantage to "win" the nomination. As bad as Trump is, she would be worse.

 

[Polishprince]

My answer is no

-Geaux

I would just people to THINK.

Is the Russian Federation better served by a strong Alpha Male in the WH or a drunken, lying hag who is for sale at a low price , if you'll remember the Uranium One deal?

Of course its the latter.

Now, I heard what Uncle Pooty said this morning.

He had to say that he preferred President Trump to win, the President was sitting right there. And in a few ways, I'm sure he gets along better on a personal level with The Donald than he would with a whiny witch in office.

But the reality is that the Russian Federation wanted Hillary Clinton in power.

 

[playtime]

Even the intelligence community isn't saying they "changed the outcome". In fact I haven't heard anybody aside from maybe a couple partisan hacks on USMB ever make that claim. The concern isn't whether or not they changed the outcome. It's whether or not they were involved in any meddling. Let's say a football team cheats, but the other side still wins. We don't let the cheaters off the hook just because they failed to have any effect on the outcome.

Russia, like the United States, have meddled in other countries elections for decades now.

But this is different?

-Geaux

yes. it was US. why is that ok with you?

why is it ok for the US to interfere in other countries?

i never said it was ok. but god damn you are showing your tender white underbelly 'cause your guy won? still consider yourself american?

 

[Geaux4it]

My answer is no

-Geaux

I would just people to THINK.

Is the Russian Federation better served by a strong Alpha Male in the WH or a drunken, lying hag who is for sale at a low price , if you'll remember the Uranium One deal?

Of course its the latter.

Now, I heard what Uncle Pooty said this morning.

He had to say that he preferred President Trump to win, the President was sitting right there. And in a few ways, I'm sure he gets along better on a personal level with The Donald than he would with a whiny witch in office.

But the reality is that the Russian Federation wanted Hillary Clinton in power.

Yep, Mr Putin even commented on the Uranium One deal

-Geaux

 

[grainbely]

It's very simple, and it concerns me. Is it possible that they in fact hacked servers and changed votes? That is the only way they impacted the election and in the back of my mind I have always suspected it could be possible, just because of the reaction. All the more reason to demand ID to vote.

Otherwise, no way in hell they make up the difference. That is all on Hillary and Americans desire for change. Obama is as much a reason Trump is president as any, he was dragging America to socialism.

Changing votes isn't the only way to influence an election and it also isn't the only criminal way to do it. Apparently they stole voter data and hacked into election and campaign systems. Those breaches are illegal. Social engineering is powerful stuff too and is one of the big pillars of cyber crime. Just because someone convinces you with false information and identity to you yourself do something of your own will doesn't make it legal, right, or fair play in our elections. This might not seem very different from our normal extreme partisan politics around election time but when it's part of a broad orchestrated campaign like our foreign adversary Russia's, then it is an attack on our sovereign republic.

 

[playtime]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

and just as likely the 'known fact it was Hillarys turn', which polls kept proving, kept voters at home, instead of going to the polls and ensuring it.

those that didn't vote have no say whatsoever. they are dismissed & rightly so.

and they MAY be the reason Hillary lost in those states

hillary lost the electoral college. by some 75K votes.

and?

75K is a low amt to lose by & easily manipulated to get 'er done.

 

[playtime]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

and just as likely the 'known fact it was Hillarys turn', which polls kept proving, kept voters at home, instead of going to the polls and ensuring it.

those that didn't vote have no say whatsoever. they are dismissed & rightly so.

and they MAY be the reason Hillary lost in those states

hillary lost the electoral college. by some 75K votes.

and how many votes did Gore lose the EC by?

Less than 500, in ONE state.

straw man.

russia didn't have a hand in that.

 

[Mac1958]

No, I doubt it.

That shouldn't stop us and our President, however, from expressing outrage and doing absolutely everything possible to expose those who did it, and passionately defend our democratic system from those who are trying to damage it.

Somehow I'm just not getting that vibe, though.
.

 

[Geaux4it]

It's very simple, and it concerns me. Is it possible that they in fact hacked servers and changed votes? That is the only way they impacted the election and in the back of my mind I have always suspected it could be possible, just because of the reaction. All the more reason to demand ID to vote.

Otherwise, no way in hell they make up the difference. That is all on Hillary and Americans desire for change. Obama is as much a reason Trump is president as any, he was dragging America to socialism.

Changing votes isn't the only way to influence an election and it also isn't the only criminal way to do it. Apparently they stole voter data and hacked into election and campaign systems. Those breaches are illegal. Social engineering is powerful stuff too and is one of the big pillars of cyber crime. Just because someone convinces you with false information and identity to you yourself do something of your own will doesn't make it legal, right, or fair play in our elections. This might not seem very different from our normal extreme partisan politics around election time but when it's part of a broad orchestrated campaign like our foreign adversary Russia's, then it is an attack on our sovereign republic.

But what about when we, the United States do it to other countries? Is that illegal as well?

-Geaux

 

[Harpy Eagle]

My answer is no

-Geaux

Russia did not change the outcome, Hillary stopping her campaign in August because she thought she had it in the bag was what did it in my mind. I also think that Comey played a pretty big part in it with his last minute "re-opening" of the investigation.

The Russians had the same impact that ads on TV and the radio and the net have. Lots of people want to pretend that these things do not have any impact, but if they did not companies would not spend billions of dollars a year on them.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Only about 200K votes swung the election because of the Gerrymandering, Voter Intimidation and rules changes by Republicans mostly in Red states. Democrats have no history of doing these things.

The Comey announcement combined with the Social Media blitz by the Russians and the Wiki-leaks releases definitely swung the election with only 200K votes in the balance. If Trump had won the popular vote, I would be skeptical. He didn't, even though he would like you to believe he did.

We have a country now run by a President selected by the minority of the country. It would not be so bad if he was at least competent.

Only about 200K votes swung the election because of the Gerrymandering, Voter Intimidation and rules changes by Republicans mostly in Red states.

Gerrymandering impacted the Presidential race?
Tell me more!!!

 

[aaronleland]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

and just as likely the 'known fact it was Hillarys turn', which polls kept proving, kept voters at home, instead of going to the polls and ensuring it.

those that didn't vote have no say whatsoever. they are dismissed & rightly so.

Of course we have a say. Especially if we spent over a year criticizing both candidates. Both sides had been presented with plenty of information about the candidates for years, and still the two worst possible candidates won the primaries. Why then should non-voters be dragged into the shit show they had no part in creating?

a fucking WRITE - IN is better than not voting at all. if you let others decide your fate without an input, then ya--- stfu.

Bullshit. I've been in this game long enough to know what disingenuous hacks the "you have no say" crowd are. You vote third party or write-in, and they tell you that you wasted your vote. You vote for the guy they don't like, and they shit all over you for that. It's never about the actual principle of voting. They wanted you to vote for whoever they wanted you to vote for.

 

[jc456]

Even the intelligence community isn't saying they "changed the outcome". In fact I haven't heard anybody aside from maybe a couple partisan hacks on USMB ever make that claim. The concern isn't whether or not they changed the outcome. It's whether or not they were involved in any meddling. Let's say a football team cheats, but the other side still wins. We don't let the cheaters off the hook just because they failed to have any effect on the outcome.

Russia, like the United States, have meddled in other countries elections for decades now.

But this is different?

-Geaux

yes. it was US. why is that ok with you?

why is it ok for the US to interfere in other countries?

i never said it was ok. but god damn you are showing your tender white underbelly 'cause your guy won? still consider yourself american?

you didn't actually answer and it was a question. just saying. More than you'll ever be. I believe in the people of the US and would never insult hard working americans over illegal aliens. Ever!!!!! Tell us again how bad american workers are.

 

[jc456]

No, I doubt it.

That shouldn't stop us and our President, however, from expressing outrage and doing absolutely everything possible to expose those who did it, and passionately defend our democratic system from those who are trying to damage it.

Somehow I'm just not getting that vibe, though.
.

it's why I want to see the evidence. how you going to stop em if you don't know what it is they did?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

How many Dem voters were turned into deplorables by Russian memes on Facebook?

 

[fncceo]

We have a country now run by a President selected by the minority of the country.

By the majority of the states ... the way it was intended.

I find it hilarious that the Russki spies knew how to get Donald Trump across the finish line and career politician Hillary didn't.

 

[playtime]

changed?

no.

influenced deplorables by playing on their poorly educated fears & racism, fence sitters, & jill stein voters & bernie bros especially after those 'discovered' duplicate e-mails on weiner's computer came into play?

yep.

and just as likely the 'known fact it was Hillarys turn', which polls kept proving, kept voters at home, instead of going to the polls and ensuring it.

those that didn't vote have no say whatsoever. they are dismissed & rightly so.

Of course we have a say. Especially if we spent over a year criticizing both candidates. Both sides had been presented with plenty of information about the candidates for years, and still the two worst possible candidates won the primaries. Why then should non-voters be dragged into the shit show they had no part in creating?

a fucking WRITE - IN is better than not voting at all. if you let others decide your fate without an input, then ya--- stfu.

Bullshit. I've been in this game long enough to know what disingenuous hacks the "you have no say" crowd are. You vote third party or write-in, and they tell you that you wasted your vote. You vote for the guy they don't like, and they shit all over you for that. It's never about the actual principle of voting. They wanted you to vote for whoever they wanted you to vote for.

oh i voted for nader in 2000 against my own state senator so i know the perils of voting 3rd party. never will again. never actually gave a write in & probably never will. but to waste the opportunity to vote = giving up your right to complain. doing nothing is way worse than any of the other options.