Do our rights come from nature and God as Paul Ryan says?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by courseofhistory, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. courseofhistory
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    courseofhistory BANNED

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    Paul Ryan keeps saying our rights come from nature and God not the government. Actually, they come from "we the people" and we decide the rights that government puts foward through our representatives, referendums and so forth. Nature dictates some of our limitiations only. But we have been able to overcome a lot of those. God? If you believe in him, I thought he gave us free will to decide things for ourselves?
     
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  2. Warrior102
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    Warrior102 Gold Member

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    Is this all you Liberhoids have ?

    Dear God.
     
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  3. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    He says that because conservatives for some inexplicable reason like to say it, and like to hear it.

    The question they won't answer is which rights came from God.
     
  4. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    The Second Treatise of Civil Government
    1690

    John Locke
    1632-1704

    Introduction
    CHAP. I.
    CHAP. II. Of the State of Nature.
    CHAP. III. Of the State of War.
    CHAP. IV. Of Slavery.
    CHAP. V. Of Property.
    CHAP. VI. Of Paternal Power.
    CHAP. VII. Of Political or Civil Society.
    CHAP. VIII. Of the Beginning of Political Societies.
    CHAP. IX. Of the Ends of Political Society and Government.
    CHAP. X. Of the Forms of a Common-wealth.
    CHAP. XI. Of the Extent of the Legislative Power.
    CHAP. XII. Of the Legislative, Executive, and Federative Power of the Common-wealth.
    CHAP. XIII. Of the Subordination of the Powers of the Common-wealth.
    CHAP. XIV. Of Prerogative.
    CHAP. XV. Of Paternal, Political, and Despotical Power, considered together.
    CHAP. XVI. Of Conquest.
    CHAP. XVII. Of Usurpation.
    CHAP. XVIII. Of Tyranny.
    CHAP. XIX. Of the Dissolution of Government.

    Home ยป John Locke Works

    John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government
     
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  5. tjvh
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    tjvh Senior Member

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    Grasping at...[​IMG]
     
  6. eflatminor
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    eflatminor Classical Liberal

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    You could not be more wrong. The ENTIRE idea behind the founding of America, which is codified in the Constitution, is that no government nor any person can grant or take certain rights without due process. You and everyone is born with these rights. It matters not if you believe in God, you get the rights no matter what.

    That is what differentiated the USA from previous societies in which some rights could be granted by government and others taken without due process (it's good the be the King!). America was the first to say your rights are yours at birth. Nobody need grant them. And, if a right is to be taken away, it must be through due process (warrants, trial by peers, etc).

    Read up on history. You're missing the idea behind the American experiment...the very heart of it.
     
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  7. Warrior102
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    Warrior102 Gold Member

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    God gave you the right to be born and breath, numbnuts.

    I realize you Liberhoids think some "Chimp" created everything along the Evolution Highway.

    Flaming fucking idiot...
     
  8. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    Perhaps you should read the Declaration of Dependance. The Idea that our rights come from a Higher Place, are not not "given" to us by Man is Central to the very Idea of America. See if you State your Rights come from Nature/God/some other power other than the will of Men, then you are saying that no mere men can ever take them away.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  9. courseofhistory
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    courseofhistory BANNED

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    I put that forward as an example of how I think Ryan is out of touch and I'm not a liberal. I'm an independent moderate who has voted for a lot of different candidates of different parties. I'm not grasping at straws or anything else. I just wanted to hear discussion on it not one liner talking points!
     
  10. Greenbeard
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    Greenbeard Gold Member

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    That doesn't really refute the point of the OP that rights are established and secured through social consensus. The fact that you can point to the importance of a foundational idea sewn into the fabric of American culture as the source of America's (not always uniformly sterling) dedication to the protection of human rights doesn't contradict the point being made at all.
     

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