Do our rights come from nature and God as Paul Ryan says?

[G.T.]

Irony:

"Prove our Government doesn't provide our rights."

"Our Government's founding documents say so!"

Double entendre of irony, actually. wow.

 

[B. Kidd]

Paul Ryan keeps saying our rights come from nature and God not the government. Actually, they come from "we the people" and we decide the rights that government puts foward through our representatives, referendums and so forth. Nature dictates some of our limitiations only. But we have been able to overcome a lot of those. God? If you believe in him, I thought he gave us free will to decide things for ourselves?

Simply, Ryan is just agreeing with our forefathers'.

"that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

 

[hortysir]

There is no god. If not for reasoning and collaboration between men......human beings created by the meeting of sperm and egg........there would be no laws, rights or the institutions needed to secure and protect them.

Yes.....in this nation, citizens are born with the rights that we have come to know and love. But you ought not lose sight of the fact that we....as in human beings....remain responsible for protecting them.

Except for the very first sentence, I completely agree with your post, LL.

The OP is asserting that government is the provider of these rights.

Government is we the people.

We the people wrote the founding documents.

The founding documents are what our Justices use to rule, on cases regarding rights.

Anyone can argue that the "Government" provided our rights, if you believe Government is we the people. To suggest otherwise is either being thick, or I guess Religious.

One could be born on a remote island, with no system of government in place, and still be born with the fundamental right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[B. Kidd]

Which God? There are thousands.

Pick one, but only one, and call it what you will.

 

[hortysir]

Irony:

"Prove our Government doesn't provide our rights."

"Our Government's founding documents say so!"

Double entendre of irony, actually. wow.

So someone wrote down a truth.

Because that someone was part of a founding government makes it less true???

 

[G.T.]

Except for the very first sentence, I completely agree with your post, LL.

The OP is asserting that government is the provider of these rights.

Government is we the people.

We the people wrote the founding documents.

The founding documents are what our Justices use to rule, on cases regarding rights.

Anyone can argue that the "Government" provided our rights, if you believe Government is we the people. To suggest otherwise is either being thick, or I guess Religious.

One could be born on a remote island, with no system of government in place, and still be born with the fundamental right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

How would you go about proving that
?

You can't, therefore it's a platitude, not a concrete truth.

 

[G.T.]

Irony:

"Prove our Government doesn't provide our rights."

"Our Government's founding documents say so!"

Double entendre of irony, actually. wow.

So someone wrote down a truth.

Because that someone was part of a founding government makes it less true???

Something can't be a truth because you "believe" it to be.

Truth requires logical deducing.

I believe in our right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness.

I believe that in order to have the best human existence, we should have those.

But as far as proving we're "born with them," just because we find them ample? Makes no sense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Declaration of Independence is not law, merely a statement of why we left Great Britain.

Our Constitution is a secular document, which in no way states our rights are God given.

 

[GoneBezerk]

The point is if God gives man freedom for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness then there shouldn't be a government in place to take away those things to man from God.

It is too deep for your shallow mind.

We don't believe the government gives us rights, it takes away rights.

Paul Ryan keeps saying our rights come from nature and God not the government. Actually, they come from "we the people" and we decide the rights that government puts foward through our representatives, referendums and so forth. Nature dictates some of our limitiations only. But we have been able to overcome a lot of those. God? If you believe in him, I thought he gave us free will to decide things for ourselves?

 

[Katzndogz]

Irony:

"Prove our Government doesn't provide our rights."

"Our Government's founding documents say so!"

Double entendre of irony, actually. wow.

So someone wrote down a truth.

Because that someone was part of a founding government makes it less true???

Something can't be a truth because you "believe" it to be.

Truth requires logical deducing.

I believe in our right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness.

I believe that in order to have the best human existence, we should have those.

But as far as proving we're "born with them," just because we find them ample? Makes no sense.

Are there those who truly believe that the founding documents say that the government PROVIDES our rights?

Proof please.

 

[healthmyths]

Paul Ryan keeps saying our rights come from nature and God not the government. Actually, they come from "we the people" and we decide the rights that government puts foward through our representatives, referendums and so forth. Nature dictates some of our limitiations only. But we have been able to overcome a lot of those. God? If you believe in him, I thought he gave us free will to decide things for ourselves?

See you keep forgetting that MOST law abiding people do so because they are taught that you obey the laws NOT because they are the LAWS but because the laws of MAN are superseded by the LAWS of PHYSiCS!

The Golden Rule and Ten Commandments were handed down BEFORE many of the Laws of Physics were known.. but early man KNEW you don't tug on a bear without running the risk of being eaten! Where were the "laws of man" at that time?

Mankind reacted to the laws of common sense and then the Ten Commandments as well as the Golden Rule.. FIRST .. Laws of man are just crap !

 

[G.T.]

The point is if God gives man freedom for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness then there shouldn't be a government in place to take away those things to man from God.
It is too deep for your shallow mind.

We don't believe the government gives us rights, it takes away rights.

Simply declaring it so doesn't mean anything except that it was declared so........


by men,

which is hardly proof of its "truth."

 

[Contumacious]

Paul Ryan keeps saying our rights come from nature and God not the government.

He was correct . But he was merely pandering. Only listen to Dr Paul and Libertarians, when it comes to NATURAL RIGHTS .

Actually, they come from "we the people" and we decide the rights that government ourselves?

Really?

Well, in that case our next revolution will be bloody as hell. Just as soon as the conservatives find out that there are 100 millions parasites who will have no problem electing representatives who will decide what "our" rights will be. No way they will be able to outvote their parasitic hordes.

They better make sure that our right to bear arms is not infringed upon any more.

.

 

[G.T.]

So someone wrote down a truth.

Because that someone was part of a founding government makes it less true???

Something can't be a truth because you "believe" it to be.

Truth requires logical deducing.

I believe in our right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness.

I believe that in order to have the best human existence, we should have those.

But as far as proving we're "born with them," just because we find them ample? Makes no sense.

Are there those who truly believe that the founding documents say that the government PROVIDES our rights?

Proof please.

The founding documents is what tells you they come from nature, or from God.

But in order to take that at face value - you're taking it from GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS, or - you're Religious.

 

[G.T.]

I agree that our Government was established to enforce self evident rights.

But the whole "self evident" thing, is so subject to the human brain's determination of what actually IS self evident, that declaring these rights of god or nature would require a lot more by way of logic.

Just because it hurts your sensibilities, doesn't mean dick tbh.

 

[eflatminor]

That is not what I'm arguing. You need not believe me or the hundreds of years of case law that support the idea of where rights come from. You need only read the law of the land. It's quite clear on the subject.

Again, if you're going to steer me to legal documents or case law to justify this or that social conception of rights, you're making my point for me.

They're not baked into the metaphysical fabric of reality, they're baked into the social institutions and legal frameworks (as well as public opinion and ideology) that comprise civilization.

Ah, okay, I see the point you're making. If you don't believe all people are born with certain rights, that's fine. All I care about is that this idea represents the cornerstone of the American experiment, which I grant you, is an idea of men.

Interesting take. Well done.

 

[peach174]

The point is that our Government and States are not to make any laws that violate our Constitution.
We have Federal, State and Departments that now make laws that violates the Constitution.
People are constantly going to court over these laws.
Americans should never have to take laws to court that violates our Constitutional rights.
Our Government thinks that they have the right to make any laws and do as they please and that the Constitution does not prohibit them from anything. It does but they ignore it.
We the people need to start electing politicians who will uphold the laws of the Constitution and fire them when they don't.

 

[Interpol]

Except for a woman's right to control her own body and for gays to marry and for all of us to consume whatever drugs we want, I don't doubt Paul Ryan is sincere in his statement.

Our right are give to us from nature and God, except where Paul Ryan is concerned.

 

[Katzndogz]

It seems obvious now that since we have no idea what our rights are or where they come from we are losing them.

 

[Charles_Main]

Declaration of Independence is not law, merely a statement of why we left Great Britain.

Our Constitution is a secular document, which in no way states our rights are God given.

Wrong Jake, It's a Statement of WHY we were setting up a new Government. Which is very Relevant as to what Kind of Government we set up. It's saying Man does not give us these rights, God or what ever you want to call it, another higher power does, and that is why we are setting up our own Government, To defend those rights against the Will of Men who would take them.

To dismiss the Deceleration of Independence shows a very real Lack of Understanding of the Intentions of the Founders.