CDZ Do I have to allow you to post on my website?

[koshergrl]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Taking pay in return for work means that you suspend your *right* to do as you please and say what you please during that period of time you are paid to work. You in essence have sold yourself and agree to suspend your own rights in order to serve another.

In the bible, this was called slavery. But we just know it as being employed.

You still have the right to free speech..on your own time. You have the right to protest and say anything you like...on your own time.

You don't get to use your employers' equipment, business and media in order to advertise your own personal biases.

It's the same thing as federal employees using federal equipment during the time the employees are paid to do a particular job..to promote an ideology. You don't get to use your boss' business as your personal ideology platform.

 

[dblack]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Taking pay in return for work means that you suspend your *right* to do as you please and say what you please during that period of time you are paid to work. You in essence have sold yourself and agree to suspend your own rights in order to serve another.

In the bible, this was called slavery. But we just know it as being employed.

You still have the right to free speech..on your own time. You have the right to protest and say anything you like...on your own time.

You don't get to use your employers' equipment, business and media in order to advertise your own personal biases.

It's the same thing as federal employees using federal equipment during the time the employees are paid to do a particular job..to promote an ideology. You don't get to use your boss' business as your personal ideology platform.

You really just don't understand what rights are. Rights have exactly nothing to do with your relationship with your employer. You have a right to speak freely whether you're "on the clock" or not. And, unless you've signed a contract that stipulates otherwise, your employer has the right to fire you for saying or doing something they don't like.

Employment is not slavery, but it's sad how many people are willing to treat it that way.

 

[FA_Q2]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

 

[FA_Q2]

The military presence is there to honor anyone. It's there to put a bit of awe into young kids to make them want to be cannon fodder so the rich can send them off to die in oil rich countries.

Wow.. Just Wow. You're not ashamed to be asserting that opinion in front of gawd and everyone? Is THIS the alternative to the GOP? Then this country is massively fucked.. .

Have a nice rant.

"Wow.. Just Wow." being you don't actually have anything to respond to.

Look, the military PAYS to have the anthem played.

Military paid sports teams $10.4M for tributes

"
The military paid pro sports teams $10.4 million for patriotic displays, troop tributes"

"The fact that teams like the New York Jets had taken military money to honor hometown troops was revealed this spring, "

If you're being paid to do it, you're not really honoring anyone, are you? You're carrying out a business transaction that enriches you. Honoring someone comes from the heart, not from the pocket.

"While the report concedes that some of the money appears to have been spent on legitimate recruiting efforts, a large portion went to "paid patriotism" at games."

I'm sorry if ignoring the truth makes you think I'm somehow wrong.

Makes it an empty gesture.
Its the same as the anthem. Why is it played in a domestic game ?

We had a whizzy commercial manager a few years back who thought that it would get the crowd pumped up by playing Land of My Fathers before the game. It flopped because a fourth division game against Hartlepool United was deemed inappropriate. There is a time and a place.

It also means that the company is getting paid to promote patriotism and the employees are openly shirking that.

Anywhere else and they would be fired immediately.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why? Do they not have a right to protest?
Does he not have a right to comment?
Do we not have a right to boycott?

1)No right exists
2)No right exists
3)Yes right exists

1)NFL work rules state every behavior and action during the pre-game ceremonies. Violation of contract.
2) Terms of Service you agreed to give them the ability to make the rules of content and social engagement.
3) Go for it. When everybody is boycotting everything maybe they'll STOP ADVERTISING and ruining our Football viewing and Social Media surfing experience.

Number one false because the NFL has verbally agreed that no punishment will be levied for this breach of contract so they have been given the right. Number two Trump has the first amendment to back up his right to free speech as does the NFL players and Alex Jones for that matter. Number three thanks, for a minute there I thought you were going to force me to buy a ticket!

The NFL HAS put sanctions in place for this season. They are just chickenshit to enforce them because they are STILL negotiating with the player's union. It''s in the Game Day manual. NFL is not gonna back down. The military and pledge is a PART of the NFL brand.

Twitter could CUT the tweeter out of the hands of the Prez and there would be NOTHING he could do about it. He's the biggest troll ever to have an official throne. Only thing he could do is to start a competitor to Twitter and SPLIT their membership in half. That would cost less than he spends on plumbing/landscaping every 10 years at Mar A Lago.

Why is the military anything to do with the NFL? I fail to see any connection between the two.

That's a telling question and maybe why you don't understand the outrage.. The Nation anthems are a regular feature worldwide at sporting events of national significance. It's a moment to put aside disunity and declare that we are NOT IN REBELLION to our countries. The military presence is provided by color guards or heroes or even impressive fly-overs because we HONOR those who make the most visible sacrifices for this country. This even applies to LOCAL and regional heroes in the emergency services. It's not too much to ask to show that you are NOT in rebellion and not giving up on the system.

The NFL is in the ENTERTAINMENT biz. Sporting events are the ONE type of national event that consistently draws both sides of the tribal political wars and it's important to remind folks of that unity. As opposed to say the Oscars and other ceremonies where REBELLION runs rampant. Not to mention Washington DC Correspondence Dinner and other "TV entertainment" like "The View".

The folks that OWN the sporting franchises like the NFL and NASCAR have made the calculated decision to INCLUDE this statement of non-partisan support of the USA in there programming.

Compelled conformity is not ‘unity’ – intimidating those who engage in peaceful, lawful, justified protest in an effort to compel them to conform is not ‘unity.’

The ‘outrage’ is perfectly and accurately understood – it’s the ‘outrage’ of authoritarian conservatives frightened by dissent.

It’s the ‘outrage’ of authoritarian conservatives hostile to the issue being protested: the unwarranted killing of young black men by police.

And it’s the ‘outrage’ of authoritarian conservatives who wrongly perceive protesting during the anthem as an act of ‘disrespect,’ when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[koshergrl]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Taking pay in return for work means that you suspend your *right* to do as you please and say what you please during that period of time you are paid to work. You in essence have sold yourself and agree to suspend your own rights in order to serve another.

In the bible, this was called slavery. But we just know it as being employed.

You still have the right to free speech..on your own time. You have the right to protest and say anything you like...on your own time.

You don't get to use your employers' equipment, business and media in order to advertise your own personal biases.

It's the same thing as federal employees using federal equipment during the time the employees are paid to do a particular job..to promote an ideology. You don't get to use your boss' business as your personal ideology platform.

You really just don't understand what rights are. Rights have exactly nothing to do with your relationship with your employer. You have a right to speak freely whether you're "on the clock" or not. And, unless you've signed a contract that stipulates otherwise, your employer has the right to fire you for saying or doing something they don't like.

Employment is not slavery, but it's sad how many people are willing to treat it that way.

Yes, you have the right. However he isn't obliged to continue to pay you.

You are the one who doesn't understand rights. Leftists think rights = I get to do and say whatever I like, whenever I like, and everybody has to tolerate it.

Not true. Your boss pays for control of your body and your mouth during work hours. That's why they pay you.

You can say and do whatever you like on your own time. If you want to use your boss' materials, press, and platform go for it..he has the right to fire your dumb ass.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Are you insinuating I'm lying? About what?

This:
That's not illegal, nor should it be.

Yes, it is illegal to squelch freedom of speech. It is also illegal for huge corporations who control the means by which we communicate, to deliberately limit the ability of people to engage in free speech and public discourse. PARTICULARLY for the purpose of overthrowing the government. It is illegal.

Businesses and individuals in society have every right to refuse to accommodate those they disagree with.

Unless they are removing the only, or all, platforms that are used by ordinary people to exchange information and ideas. As I've explained ad nauseum, if corporations come together to deny people their constitutional right to free speech..which is what is happening...then those corporations are breaking the law. And they know it.

Republicans used to understand that. They used to be the ones (well, some of them anyway) fighting back against big brother government. Now they're clamoring for it.

This is just a lie. Nobody is clamoring for big government. You people like to pretend that protecting our government from being OVERTHROWN by leftists who daily state their desire to overthrow our government and eliminate the constitution and our protected, human rights..is the same as using the government to violate people's human rights. It isn't.

Consider: if you get your druthers and the government steps in here, it will establish a dangerous precedent that will be used against you. The Democrats have long hinted that government should "do something" about Fox News and the Koch brothers. Will you be cheering for that as well?

Nonsense. The government is supposed to step in when well funded enemies of the US set themselves up to shut down free speech, eliminate the free press altogether, and work to not only overthrow our elected president, but our republic as well. Those things are CRIMES.

Govt is not supposed to make law that regulates speech. Period. Both sides here are inconsistent on the issue of PRIVATE enterprise controlling speech. It's their right. It's their right to ask you to wear a Wiener outfit if they want to.

The hypocrisy from both sides can CLEARLY been seen when you compare WHO was outraged by Football Players violating the RULES of their business time behavior and calling it speech --- to the folks who now are calling for freaking GOVT to intervene in moderating Facebook and Twitter.

From my great seat -- high ABOVE the 50 yard line -- it APPEARS both teams switched uniforms on what PRIVATE enterprise can do with respect to free speech. It's HILARIOUS -- but it doesn't bode well for my country. Because NO ONE is a true Civil Libertarian anymore that are Repub/Demo BattleBots.

OTHERWISE -- they'd SEE the massive inconsistencies in how they are reacting to issues and hopefully be totally embarrased into thinking through what they ACTUALLY stand for. You might even have to take some time off from the tribal wars to PONDER your commitment to playing offense/defense games and changing jerseys every time possession of outrage changes.

Again.

It is not interfering with *free speech* to stop people from interfering with free speech.

Nobody is interfering with the *free speech* of zuckerberg, google, youtube, facebook and the like.Their free speech is not impinged by ending their ability to squelch the free speech of others. They can say anything they like.

They, however, are interfering with the free speech of others..and should be stopped.

And let's not confuse "free speech" with "it's okay to slander and libel and commit fraud in order to overthrow the US government".

Libel is not considered *free speech* and in fact is a lie.

Lies that one tells while perpetrating a fraud are not *free speech* and if they are told/spread for the purpose of breaking a law...for example...to discredit the president, or a particular news source, are not *protected* speech.

And fake press who call themselves *journalists* but who are busted again and again lying and hiding information for the purpose of destroying the credibility of REAL journalists, or for the purpose of overthrowing a president or government...are not *off limits* when it comes to prosecution. Just because they're speaking doesn't mean that they can say anything they want and have it be protected speech. You can't tell people lies about a business or a person for the purpose of causing financial or political harm to that person, and call it *free speech*. It isn't. It's actually ILLEGAL to do that.

They, however, are interfering with the free speech of others..and should be stopped.

No more than Infowars is interfering with the free speech of others when they refuse to post my comment on their website. No platform- no newspaper- no business has any obligation to assist others in broadcasting their speech.

And let's not confuse "free speech" with "it's okay to slander and libel and commit fraud in order to overthrow the US government".

You seem to confuse 'slander and libel' with trying to overthrow the U.S. government. Lots of people commit slander and libel frequently- like Don the Con does- but he does it to public figures so he can get away with it.
Now if you know of anyone trying to overthrow the U.S. Government- you should contact law enforcement- they would I am sure be fascinated to hear from you.

Lies that one tells while perpetrating a fraud are not *free speech* and if they are told/spread for the purpose of breaking a law...for example...to discredit the president, or a particular news source, are not *protected* speech.

America has a long and proud tradition of lies to discredit presidents- going all the way back to our founding fathers. Of course now we have a President telling lies to discredit not only the press- but any of his perceived enemies.

And no- it isn't breaking the law to try to discredit the President- no matter how much you fascists think it should be.

I agree with most everything you said. But --- there is a HUGE army of media that are now ACCOMPLICES in helping a limited conspiracy in the Federal govt to subvert and overthrow a legitimately elected president. That's why you didn't get "a winner".

Delusional nonsense.

‘The media’ have no desire to see Trump gone – Trump is the best thing to happen to ‘the media’ in a long time, he sells newspapers and garners ratings; that’s why ‘the media’ have sought to normalize Trump since before the election.

And there is no ‘conspiracy’ in the Federal government to subvert or overthrow Trump, ‘limited’ or otherwise – the notion is ridiculous, baseless, and devoid of merit.

 

[dblack]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

 

[koshergrl]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

This is true. But it doesn't apply to the facebook/google/twitter conundrum.

 

[dblack]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

This is true. But it doesn't apply to the facebook/google/twitter conundrum.

Yeah. It does. A business cannot violate your Constitutional rights. Only government can do that. It's the same situation.

 

[frigidweirdo]

1)No right exists
2)No right exists
3)Yes right exists

1)NFL work rules state every behavior and action during the pre-game ceremonies. Violation of contract.
2) Terms of Service you agreed to give them the ability to make the rules of content and social engagement.
3) Go for it. When everybody is boycotting everything maybe they'll STOP ADVERTISING and ruining our Football viewing and Social Media surfing experience.

Number one false because the NFL has verbally agreed that no punishment will be levied for this breach of contract so they have been given the right. Number two Trump has the first amendment to back up his right to free speech as does the NFL players and Alex Jones for that matter. Number three thanks, for a minute there I thought you were going to force me to buy a ticket!

The NFL HAS put sanctions in place for this season. They are just chickenshit to enforce them because they are STILL negotiating with the player's union. It''s in the Game Day manual. NFL is not gonna back down. The military and pledge is a PART of the NFL brand.

Twitter could CUT the tweeter out of the hands of the Prez and there would be NOTHING he could do about it. He's the biggest troll ever to have an official throne. Only thing he could do is to start a competitor to Twitter and SPLIT their membership in half. That would cost less than he spends on plumbing/landscaping every 10 years at Mar A Lago.

Why is the military anything to do with the NFL? I fail to see any connection between the two.

That's a telling question and maybe why you don't understand the outrage.. The Nation anthems are a regular feature worldwide at sporting events of national significance. It's a moment to put aside disunity and declare that we are NOT IN REBELLION to our countries. The military presence is provided by color guards or heroes or even impressive fly-overs because we HONOR those who make the most visible sacrifices for this country. This even applies to LOCAL and regional heroes in the emergency services. It's not too much to ask to show that you are NOT in rebellion and not giving up on the system.

The NFL is in the ENTERTAINMENT biz. Sporting events are the ONE type of national event that consistently draws both sides of the tribal political wars and it's important to remind folks of that unity. As opposed to say the Oscars and other ceremonies where REBELLION runs rampant. Not to mention Washington DC Correspondence Dinner and other "TV entertainment" like "The View".

The folks that OWN the sporting franchises like the NFL and NASCAR have made the calculated decision to INCLUDE this statement of non-partisan support of the USA in there programming.

Compelled conformity is not ‘unity’ – intimidating those who engage in peaceful, lawful, justified protest in an effort to compel them to conform is not ‘unity.’

The ‘outrage’ is perfectly and accurately understood – it’s the ‘outrage’ of authoritarian conservatives frightened by dissent.

It’s the ‘outrage’ of authoritarian conservatives hostile to the issue being protested: the unwarranted killing of young black men by police.

And it’s the ‘outrage’ of authoritarian conservatives who wrongly perceive protesting during the anthem as an act of ‘disrespect,’ when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

Unity comes when everyone treats each other with respect.

It's the right who seem to have a problem with blacks, and always have done.

 

[Skull Pilot]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Taking pay in return for work means that you suspend your *right* to do as you please and say what you please during that period of time you are paid to work. You in essence have sold yourself and agree to suspend your own rights in order to serve another.

In the bible, this was called slavery. But we just know it as being employed.

You still have the right to free speech..on your own time. You have the right to protest and say anything you like...on your own time.

You don't get to use your employers' equipment, business and media in order to advertise your own personal biases.

It's the same thing as federal employees using federal equipment during the time the employees are paid to do a particular job..to promote an ideology. You don't get to use your boss' business as your personal ideology platform.

You really just don't understand what rights are. Rights have exactly nothing to do with your relationship with your employer. You have a right to speak freely whether you're "on the clock" or not. And, unless you've signed a contract that stipulates otherwise, your employer has the right to fire you for saying or doing something they don't like.

Employment is not slavery, but it's sad how many people are willing to treat it that way.

The point is your employer does not in any way violate your first amendment rights for firing you if you say something he doesn't like while you are on the clock.

You have the right to say what you want but no one is obligated to give you the venue to do so.

In fact only the government can violate your first amendment rights by passing a law that restricts free speech

Getting banned from Facebook or any other social media web site is not a violation of your First amendment rights

Getting kicked out of a coffee shop because you start making a speech in not a violation of your first amendment rights

 

[FA_Q2]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

This does apply to the FB issues where they are calling for government intervention but I was taking your comments in relation to the quoted post which was on the NFL controversy. I agree with most of what you stated but I do not think that the republicans have provided that check on liberal ambitions for over 20 years. Thankfully the process has been somewhat slow though it is accelerating as of late. They are not getting on board though - they have been wholeheartedly on board for decades.

As I stated earlier, I was absolutely shocked when I found that the right and left here have the same basic foundation for their stances. Both believe in government control, it is just what they want government imposing on the people that is different.

Honestly, it makes me wonder about humanity on the whole. As a species we seem adverse to freedom in general. At least freedom for everyone but themselves.

 

[FA_Q2]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Taking pay in return for work means that you suspend your *right* to do as you please and say what you please during that period of time you are paid to work. You in essence have sold yourself and agree to suspend your own rights in order to serve another.

In the bible, this was called slavery. But we just know it as being employed.

You still have the right to free speech..on your own time. You have the right to protest and say anything you like...on your own time.

You don't get to use your employers' equipment, business and media in order to advertise your own personal biases.

It's the same thing as federal employees using federal equipment during the time the employees are paid to do a particular job..to promote an ideology. You don't get to use your boss' business as your personal ideology platform.

You really just don't understand what rights are. Rights have exactly nothing to do with your relationship with your employer. You have a right to speak freely whether you're "on the clock" or not. And, unless you've signed a contract that stipulates otherwise, your employer has the right to fire you for saying or doing something they don't like.

Employment is not slavery, but it's sad how many people are willing to treat it that way.

The point is your employer does not in any way violate your first amendment rights for firing you if you say something he doesn't like while you are on the clock.

You have the right to say what you want but no one is obligated to give you the venue to do so.

In fact only the government can violate your first amendment rights by passing a law that restricts free speech

Getting banned from Facebook or any other social media web site is not a violation of your First amendment rights

Getting kicked out of a coffee shop because you start making a speech in not a violation of your first amendment rights

I think that was his point....

 

[koshergrl]

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

This is true. But it doesn't apply to the facebook/google/twitter conundrum.

Yeah. It does. A business cannot violate your Constitutional rights. Only government can do that. It's the same situation.

Bullshit. People violate your constitutional rights. And people run the businesses.

 

[koshergrl]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

This does apply to the FB issues where they are calling for government intervention but I was taking your comments in relation to the quoted post which was on the NFL controversy. I agree with most of what you stated but I do not think that the republicans have provided that check on liberal ambitions for over 20 years. Thankfully the process has been somewhat slow though it is accelerating as of late. They are not getting on board though - they have been wholeheartedly on board for decades.

As I stated earlier, I was absolutely shocked when I found that the right and left here have the same basic foundation for their stances. Both believe in government control, it is just what they want government imposing on the people that is different.

Honestly, it makes me wonder about humanity on the whole. As a species we seem adverse to freedom in general. At least freedom for everyone but themselves.

No, the right and left do not have the same basic foundation, and the right doesn't believe in Government control.

It isn't *government control* to protect our right to free speech. Regardless of who impinges it. That is the JOB of the government..to ensure that all Americans have the right to speak.

You think that because you fail to understand, that all fail to understand and thus are coming from the same place. It's not true, it is your own inability to understand liberty that leads you to believe that. In your mind both are arguing the same things..

But in reality, we are not. One side wants to stifle free speech.
The other protects it.
They are not the same.

 

[WillowTree]

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Well, I think all that was implied by using the "off button". The main thing is, don't go whining to the government to fix it for you.

Who is calling for the government to step in?

Well, I was bringing it back to the topic: Alex Jones is calling for a congressional hearing. And many of the board Trumpsters are supporting him in that effort.

I just don't like seeing our rights being dumbed down to the point of actually inverting them. Which is happening. We, many of us anyway, are starting to see rights not as freedoms protected from government encroachment, but as claims on the cooperation of others. The left has long conflated these concerns, and frankly were the first to come up with this idea that an employer can violate Constitutional freedoms. Now the right is getting on board, which is very concerning. They've never been what I'd call stalwart defenders of freedom, but the Republicans have at least provided some check on the liberal ambitions of the Democrats. Seeing them accept the basic premises of the progressive agenda basically provides the last few nails in our national coffin.

This does apply to the FB issues where they are calling for government intervention but I was taking your comments in relation to the quoted post which was on the NFL controversy. I agree with most of what you stated but I do not think that the republicans have provided that check on liberal ambitions for over 20 years. Thankfully the process has been somewhat slow though it is accelerating as of late. They are not getting on board though - they have been wholeheartedly on board for decades.

As I stated earlier, I was absolutely shocked when I found that the right and left here have the same basic foundation for their stances. Both believe in government control, it is just what they want government imposing on the people that is different.

Honestly, it makes me wonder about humanity on the whole. As a species we seem adverse to freedom in general. At least freedom for everyone but themselves.

No, the right and left do not have the same basic foundation, and the right doesn't believe in Government control.

It isn't *government control* to protect our right to free speech. Regardless of who impinges it. That is the JOB of the government..to ensure that all Americans have the right to speak.

You think that because you fail to understand, that all fail to understand and thus are coming from the same place. It's not true, it is your own inability to understand liberty that leads you to believe that. In your mind both are arguing the same things..

But in reality, we are not. One side wants to stifle free speech.
The other protects it.
They are not the same.

And any time that free speech is interfered with Congress should investigate.

 

[Picaro]

The idea of 'public carriers' exemptions was created for businesses such as railroads, shipping, pipelines, canals,, and utilities, etc. The air waves, and utilities such as electric lines, phone lines, cell towers, wireless bands, etc. are covered by those concessions. The internet and the WWW itself are government creations and also covered by them, so as far as access is concerned all have to be treated equally. If Facebook is allowed to ban one category of political speech, then at the very least it has to ban all political speech, and the same for any other site or 'private' server.

Facebook's bandwidth isn't privately owned, and it agrees to certain restrictions when using public carriers; its servers being 'private' means squat re protected political speech. If it wants to build its own entirely private network, it's free to do so. It hasn't done so yet. It can buy rights of way to lay it's own private lines for its private network across private property at the regular market rates; if it wants to use public air waves, public wireless, public utility rights of way obtained through eminent domain privileges and benefits as a public carrier, then it can't ban protected speech. Good luck with that; it gets very expensive, very fast.

You make a fatal logical flaw in this though. The internet itself is accessible by anyone. That is the ISP's that you are referring to - the companies that actually provide that access. What facebook does is host content ON THEIR OWN COMPUTERS and allow you to access and contribute to that content. What they choose to host or content that they chose to allow is up to them in its entierty. They own the computers and they make it avalable to the public as they see fit. If they wanted to go full out and declare that they are only hosing content that is backing democrats or trashing republicans that is their right. Just as it is the right of Breitbart to do the exact opposite on the website that they host.

Don't like it, don't use their computers. they do not provide a vital service such as water - something you will die without - and they are not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination. There are a ton of social media platforms out there. Facebook just has the most successful one.

If they don't want to provide equal access, they don't have to allow political speech; easy enough to remove it. Like I said, they act as 'public carriers' and operate on public air waves and utilities. If a baker can be harassed and sued, so can Facebook for discrimination and rights violations. Free political speech needs to be protected, period;They can make their services completely private if they want to spend the bucks running their own lines to their customers' houses or businesses, and pay for the rights of way out their own pockets. Until then, they aren't 'private' companies, they abide by Federal and state regs similar to pubic carriers.

I never said there was any perfect answer, modern tech has raised a lot of legal conflicts. IF they're going to ban any political speech, they need to ban it all. If anybody doesn't like it, take your stuff completely private.

 

[Pogo]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Neither a "remote" nor "sponsors" are involved in this, since we're talking about an exercise that isn't even broadcast on TV.

Why that's interesing is because it means all this fake outrage is astroturfed. Y'all wet your pants just because you're ordered to, and then fall all over yourselves to see who can be the first to roll over and obey. If some photographer hadn't opportunistically snapped Kaepernick's picture sitting out the anthem as he'd already been doing to no manufactured outrage --- you wouldn't even know the national anthem was played at football games AT ALL, let alone that anybody was sitting it out.

This this fake-astroturf bullshit rings as hollow as the Patriotism Theater Exercise itself. A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

[WillowTree]

if you dont like the nfl protests...use the on off button on your remote simple as that...funny how now you must censor people and deny their rights so you can watch a football game...funny how having flat out thugs playing football doesnt bother anyone...but kneeling in protest and people just cant handle it

Incorrect. If we don’t like the kneeling we should stand up and say so, boycott the games and we should boycott the sponsors! No one that I know of that has a job has the right to protest at work, on the job in front of the customers they serve. Without the fans these players don’t have the money or the opportunity that this shitty country gives them.

Neither a "remote" nor "sponsors" are involved in this, since we're talking about an exercise that isn't even broadcast on TV.

Why that's interesing is because it means all this fake outrage is astroturfed. Y'all wet your pants just because you're ordered to, and then fall all over yourselves to see who can be the first to roll over and obey. If some photographer hadn't opportunistically snapped Kaepernick's picture sitting out the anthem as he'd already been doing to no manufactured outrage --- you wouldn't even know the national anthem was played at football games AT ALL, let alone that anybody was sitting it out.

This this fake-astroturf bullshit rings as hollow as the Patriotism Theater Exercise itself. A tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

That’s how we found out about the meeting on the tarmac too? Thank god for photos and a free press! If Zuckerberg had his way that photo on the tarmac would never have seen the light of day! Screw Kaperneck and the NFL.