Desperation Watch: Democrats propose extending Bush Tax Cuts

[rdean]

I find it interesting that you can say that without knowing the cost of living in Ohio...

Well, I will tell you this. My wife and I are in the 200K bracket. We are comfortable. We save very ittle and do very little extra spending. We are not upper class. We are upper middle class perhaps, but by no means are we upper class.

Hell we aren't even 80K. Under Bush we were saving for retirement, had our home. Things were going good.

Under Obama? Our 401K has gone up in smoke, we can't afford to improve the house, our kids health insurance looks like it will be NON EXISTENT next year, and Democrats want to tell us things are IMPROVING????????

They can lie but real life tells you different.

So now you DON'T have your home and despite the fact that the bottom was dropping out of the markets under W you are still trying to hold obama accountable for something that began on W's watch?? How is obama to be held accountable for YOUR children's lack of insurance?? are you on the government dole??

You do realize that W was president until Jan 20, 2009 don't you??

Careful, next they'll be telling you that the Democrats "controlled" the Senate from 2007 to 2008. Yea, 49 to 49 with two independents. If those fucking Republicans didn't block every piece of legislation, maybe one of them can named something that passed? Don't hold your breath.

 

[drsmith1072]

Mortgage plus RE taxes: 48K a year
Tuition and food for 2 kids in college 24K a year
Car payments.................................8K a year
Car insurance.................................5K a year
Life Insurance.................................2K a year
Heallth Insurance...........................19K a year
Utilities (Phone electric oil)..............15K a year

That is 120K a year....and I have not saved, my family has not eaten, we are not clothed

On 200K my net is about 130K

I am middle class living at best. We have a nice home, nothing extravagant....we have 2 cars.....we have heat and AC....we are comfortable.

But we are not living like the UPPER CLASSS.

To quote someone you are quite familiar with from earlier in this thread

You obvioulsy are a liar.

You made that shit up.

Good for you. You win.

Feel better?

LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

Hell we aren't even 80K. Under Bush we were saving for retirement, had our home. Things were going good.

Under Obama? Our 401K has gone up in smoke, we can't afford to improve the house, our kids health insurance looks like it will be NON EXISTENT next year, and Democrats want to tell us things are IMPROVING????????

They can lie but real life tells you different.

Your 401K went up in smoke months before Obama took office.

Yes! You guys remember who took control in 2006?

Just as the economy started to improve under Republicans taking control in 1994, the economy started to tank under Democrats after 2006.

You think I don't know that. I Do.

That's still UNDER OBAMA. He was part of that gang in the Senate that contributed.

Sorry, you guys think you are going to skunk me on some political detail, but give it up.

I know the facts way better than you do.

Your own statement says "Under Obama" in direct comparison to "Under Bush" as you tried to compare one presidency to the another presidency. Obama was not president in 2006 so please try a different spin cycle because you lost it on that one.

It's funny how you try to claim victory when you make such moronic and inept arguments. LOL

 

[Mr Natural]

Yow! Oh liberals, THAT'S GOTTA HURT!!!!!

I can feel your pain from here!

enate Democrats will soon advance a plan to make permanent President George W. Bush's 2001 tax cuts for middle-class Americans earning less than $200,000, but let the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans expire, two Senate party aides said Tuesday. They will also propose to reinstate a 45% estate tax on individuals for the next two years.

The emerging tax plan is designed, as much as anything else, to clarify the differences between the two parties as they hurtle toward the fall elections. Following on their success with the financial-regulatory-reform bill, Democrats are betting that Republicans will once again take up a legislative battle on behalf of the wealthy. "Republicans are going to have a real choice ahead of them," says a Democratic aide. "Are you for extending these tax cuts for middle-class families or are you against them because you want to protect tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans?" (See how some Americans are facing the prospect of long-term unemployment.)

Read more: Democrats to Propose Extending Middle-Class Tax Cuts - TIME
​

Now this is FUNNY STUFF. Democrats fought like hell against those Tax Cuts all through the Bush admin.

NOW it's Republicans in the way of extending those cuts? Oh please! They have no power. They can't stop anything!

Come on Democrats! How stupid do you think we are?

YOU are now the vanguard of keeping these tax cuts, which you said for EIGHT YEARS WERE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH? And you say that EVEN as you claim the GOP is the party of the rich.

WELL WHO THE HELL PASSED THOSE TAX CUTS IN THE FIRST PLACE DEMOCRATS????????

Bwahahahaaa!

Man they have to KNOW they are going to LOSE big time in November to flip flop like this on Bush Tax cuts!

Who hurts are the Republicans. Why? Because Democrats are working to end the Republicans "fuck the middle class" policies. Republicans have started two wars. Iraq and their "War on the Middle Class". Afghanistan was started by Bin Laden - and they let him have a 7 year head start for some mysterious reason.

Had they caught him, it may have put an end to their little war games.

And that would make them sad.

 

[rdean]

Your 401K went up in smoke months before Obama took office.

Yes! You guys remember who took control in 2006?

Just as the economy started to improve under Republicans taking control in 1994, the economy started to tank under Democrats after 2006.

You think I don't know that. I Do.

That's still UNDER OBAMA. He was part of that gang in the Senate that contributed.

Sorry, you guys think you are going to skunk me on some political detail, but give it up.

I know the facts way better than you do.

Your own statement says "Under Obama" in direct comparison to "Under Bush" as you tried to compare one presidency to the another presidency. Obama was not president in 2006 so please try a different spin cycle because you lost it on that one.

It's funny how you try to claim victory when you make such moronic and inept arguments. LOL

Didn't I tell you? They say the same retarded things over and over again.

Democrats "controlled" the senate 49 to 49 with two votes "independent" and one of those, Joe Lieberman.

Fucking idiot Republicans can't name a single piece of legislation that passed against their "obstructionist" selves, and yet, somehow, mysteriously, against all odds, it's the Democrats "fault".

Poor Republicans. Living in a world of delusions and lies must be terribly frightening.

 

[drsmith1072]

How much less? How do you know?

Let's start with home prices, shall we?

US Home Prices and USA Heat Map - Trulia Real Estate Search - Trulia.com

Honey bunch! When you have to cite "stats" instead of actual experience, I can tell when you are lying!

I told you I would know.

A real family doesn't need some article with stats! They can tell you from their own experience.

Thank you for playing!

LOL you claim people are only presenting opinions and whine about that. Then when they present FACTS supported by stats you whine about that after you get what you asked for.

Are you bipolar or just mentally challenged??

 

[Avorysuds]

Maybe you should try living in New York with kids making $200,000 as a family before you make your judgment. Or at least talk to people like this and ask them if they feel upper class..... I'm pretty sure that won't happen though.

I DO live in New York, asshole, and I am squarely in the real middle class. As in @ 50K. I definitely don't feel upper class, but I am not struggling and can afford to live by myself and save a little. Many families here make much less and very, very few people here have a mortgage, as a 1 bedroom in Manhattan usually starts at over $1 million. Most people rent. You really shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about.

So to you middle class is renting a place? I'm wondering how big the place is you rent, if you have any kids and what kind of car you drive so that you can put a little away in savings...

And to think middle class used to mean having your own house, a kid or two, something to retire on, a wife that stayed home to raise the kids and vacation time.

 

[drsmith1072]

Mortgage plus RE taxes: 48K a year
Tuition and food for 2 kids in college 24K a year
Car payments.................................8K a year
Car insurance.................................5K a year
Life Insurance.................................2K a year
Heallth Insurance...........................19K a year
Utilities (Phone electric oil)..............15K a year

That is 120K a year....and I have not saved, my family has not eaten, we are not clothed

On 200K my net is about 130K

I am middle class living at best. We have a nice home, nothing extravagant....we have 2 cars.....we have heat and AC....we are comfortable.

But we are not living like the UPPER CLASSS.

Looks to me like you're middle class trying to live like upper class.

Forty-eight thousand a year in mortgage and taxes?

Eight-thousand a year in car payments?

Good God, man, show some restraint and good sense.

Notice how liberals can dictate to us what is living "too high" but they can't Obama?

How about those 500 buck tennis shoes of Michelle? Does she need "some restraint?"

It is about living within ones means. If you spend all of your money on material possessions and then don't have enough money for food or clothing then you are not living within your means. It's called common sense and is NOT dictating to anyone what is living too high. However, thanks for your usual spin.

 

[drsmith1072]

where do I start. A college education on average yields $2.5 mm in career earnings. Mine are taking student loans.
No one individual Item on your list is horrible in itself, but if your saying you can't cloth yourself and you have two new cars.
Priorities I guess, getting rich and eating always beat out new car and bigger house for me.

ahhh...Now I see the error. You missed the crux of the debate.

Of course I can clothe my family and feed them. I am not desitute. The argument was about 200K being deemed as UPPER CLASS and I was simply showing that 200K does NOT allow one in the NYC area to live an upper class lifestyle.

Yes, I could have gone with FASFA....but I was able to avoid it.

But I certainly am not putting away all kinds of money and living an upper class lifestyle.

I am middle class living within my means.

So in other words your entire spiel was nothing but a work of fiction meant to try and prove a point that IF you had to pay for food and clothing then you would not be able to live on the income that you listed with the expenses you listed?? Is that really what you are saying??

 

[topspin]

200,000 is upper middle class at least in ny. And if you don't have a huge nest egg the mirror holds the only blamable party.

 

[drsmith1072]

Families making over $200K in major metro areas are not uber wealthy - they are middle class.

Not really.

households with incomes in the top 5% of households have earning of $174,000 or more.

U. S. Income Quintiles, 2007

Top 5% isn't middle class.

As for the OP, it would be bad economics to raise the general level of taxes during a recession. I read somewhere recently that letting the tax cuts expire would be equivalent to increasing interest rates by 2%. That's bad policy.

But the Bush tax cuts were horrible economics to begin with. The three Bush tax cuts cost the US Treasury $1.5-$2 trillion, dwarfing the size of the Obama stimulus.

Don't worry they will ignore your numbers too and claim that they are too old just as they did the last batch even as they fail to provide numbers of their own.

 

[topspin]

Families making over $200K in major metro areas are not uber wealthy - they are middle class.

Not really.

households with incomes in the top 5% of households have earning of $174,000 or more.

U. S. Income Quintiles, 2007

Top 5% isn't middle class.

As for the OP, it would be bad economics to raise the general level of taxes during a recession. I read somewhere recently that letting the tax cuts expire would be equivalent to increasing interest rates by 2%. That's bad policy.

But the Bush tax cuts were horrible economics to begin with. The three Bush tax cuts cost the US Treasury $1.5-$2 trillion, dwarfing the size of the Obama stimulus.

Don't worry they will ignore your numbers too and claim that they are too old just as they did the last batch even as they fail to provide numbers of their own.

thanks for the chart, I usually look at net worth which matters more to me. Yeah what 80k puts you in the top quintile. The guy's at the country club are crying for the guy making 200k in a MacMansion saying things are tough.

 

[topspin]

Too proud to respond now that you realize what an ass you made of yourself.

LMAO...12k a year for tuition and 16K for a car deserves a "Good God man!"

Pathetic. You talk out of your ass.

Jarhead, you must be nearly as old as me. I'm 50 and reach a million in investments two years ago. I had three sons play college sports but only one of them got a full ride, football is better than wrestling.

But once the wrestlers were done they started working and taking student loans. Pay your sell first or you wind up looking like a Jarhead when you cry how tough it is. Your making 200K a year is way more than most posters will ever make.

 

[Jarhead]

Too proud to respond now that you realize what an ass you made of yourself.

LMAO...12k a year for tuition and 16K for a car deserves a "Good God man!"

Pathetic. You talk out of your ass.

Jarhead, you must be nearly as old as me. I'm 50 and reach a million in investments two years ago. I had three sons play college sports but only one of them got a full ride, football is better than wrestling.

But once the wrestlers were done they started working and taking student loans. Pay your sell first or you wind up looking like a Jarhead when you cry how tough it is. Your making 200K a year is way more than most posters will ever make.

I dont understand. I am not at all crying and moaning about my lifestyle. I simply pointed out that in the NYC area, with a family of four, I live comfortably, but by no means am I living an upper class lifestyle.

My family is never "in need" but on the flip side, we still need to budget. I put money away, but if I were upper class, I would be looking at retirement within a year or two. At 52, I am 10 years away at best.

I had one college athlete out of the two. He was offered the free ride for football at a host of schools, and a quarter scholarship for Lacorsse at even more. He opted to take the lacrosse, got the 25% and after 3 months of fall ball he resigned from the team as it was too time consuming for him. He wanted to work and enjoy the college experience. We had to give up the money (did it with a smile as it was what my son wanted) and now we are paying 12K a year for him. Yes, I can make him pay, but I am happy that I dont need to.

Yes, 200K is way more than most, but in NYC area it can not be deemed as upper class. Salalries are higher in NYC than anywhere else, and so is the cost of living.

My argument is that you can not take a dollar figure and separate people in "classes" without taking into consideration gepgraphic location.

One making 200K in the middle of Iowa has a much greater spending power than one making 200K in NYC. And if the one making 200K in NYC opts to move to the middle of Iowa, he/she would be making a lot less there doing the same thing.

So I disagree with the President when he continually talks about how a certain income labels you as rich. Yes, you are rich at 200K in Iowa....you are comfortable at best making 200K in NYC.

 

[topspin]

Nobody is saying NY cost of living isnt much higher, so is SF and most of Cali.
You guy's live in a better place and that's the price you pay for living there.
Facts are facts and your in the Upper Class according to what everybody else makes.
I think it's comical that you want some exemption because of higher cost of living in NY.
You could live in Alabama like a king, but alas you choose a great place over a shithole. LOL only tiny offense intended.
Your next going to tell me a millionaire is not rich in NY, and while I see your point the vast majority of people (per capita income is like 47K) think $200,000 and a mil is like a disney land vacation.
Your obviously way better off than you were trying to show to make a point, kudo's for that.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Yow! Oh liberals, THAT'S GOTTA HURT!!!!!

.....And, WILL, for quite-a-while, yet.....

(Is there any chance that MBA, that his Daddy bought him, was a USED-one???? )​

 

[Jarhead]

Nobody is saying NY cost of living isnt much higher, so is SF and most of Cali.
You guy's live in a better place and that's the price you pay for living there.
Facts are facts and your in the Upper Class according to what everybody else makes.
I think it's comical that you want some exemption because of higher cost of living in NY.
You could live in Alabama like a king, but alas you choose a great place over a shithole. LOL only tiny offense intended.
Your next going to tell me a millionaire is not rich in NY, and while I see your point the vast majority of people (per capita income is like 47K) think $200,000 and a mil is like a disney land vacation.
Your obviously way better off than you were trying to show to make a point, kudo's for that.

The point is, If I chose to live in Alabama, I would be earning considerably less and have considerably less cost of living...and likely live the same lifestyle....but THEN I would also get the tax breaks.

Let me put it to you this way...and the numbers are ficticious but to make my point...

My spending power is 50K in NY and live a "B life style"
Your spending power is 40K in Alabama and live "B life style"

You and I do the same thing for a living, but since the cost of living in Alabama is less, so is your income.

You and I have the same needs and the same posessions. All things are equal. At the end of the year, we both spend all of our money and have the exact same thing to show for it. Mine cost 10K more becuase the cost of living is higher, but that is why my salary ius 10K more.

A law is passed and all those making 50K or more have a new 5% tax on NET income.

Now, In NY, my spending power is 47,500

Your spending power is still 40K.

Whereas you will not need to change your lifestyle, I will need to change it by 2500.

Now, PLEASE...do not pick apart the numbers. I simply made it easy. Yes, I know Alabama is not 20% lower in salaries and 20% lover in costr of living.

I simply wanted to make my point.

 

[topspin]

I agree with your numbers but not your point.
It's the price you pay to live in a desirable location.
Millions in Cali, Miami get the same tax wallop.

 

[Jarhead]

I agree with your numbers but not your point.
It's the price you pay to live in a desirable location.
Millions in Cali, Miami get the same tax wallop.

I see your point, but I dont agree with it.
Some see NY as NOT a desireable location.
I live in NY becuase that is where I was raised, got my first job and I got stuck here.
Truth is, I would move in a heartbeat. But my business is now solidified here.
Yes, that is my fault and was my decision....but some see Alabama as desireable.

I still say when it comes to determining who gets what taxes, they should include geographic location and cost of living in the formula. Not just income.

 

[topspin]

The reasons NYC, Miami, and nearly all of Cali have higher real estate is more people think it's a desirable place. Many move away for what they consider a normal cost of living.

Supply and demand, we shouldn't have to subsidize your living in a high demand area beyond what you already get in higher mortgage and property tax credit. Most would agree with that even though you don't. Best wishes with your college athletes, mine are done and I miss driving 2,000 miles round trip to see about 20 minutes of wrestling.