Dems counting on People over 55 being Ignorant?

[rightwinger]

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

In other words, the Democrat plan is to abolish Medicare, but we already knew that.

Abolish it?

The Dems offered to put our whole healthcare system under Medicare of course the insurance company lobby bribed the Republicans to make sure that didn't happen

 

[Trajan]

Six of one……….this debate has become circular…..its a battle of philosophies.

Every plan will always be unfair to someone. Getting the system to perform, to capture the best of what it has to offer and provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people is what this is supposedly all about.

However, there is an ideological bridge that is keeping the parties apart; there are some who believe that the government is the best arbiter, they think they can, by their management stamp out every vestige of unfairness for/to everyone. They believe they can protect everyone from their own intrinsic lack of self interest in this context.

Conversely the other party feels that in the end, the gains via the above platform are marginal in that no one anywhere at anytime has ever been able to bend so complex a vehicle like healthcare so as to deliver to everyone everything, exactly equitably where in citizen *A gets exactly what citizen *B gets no matter their status, ala earning power or station in life. There will always be unfairness. It is what it is.

Its central planning vs. competitive market forces. The ideology of one seeks to harness the herd, the other seeks to free it to roam and to make a more individual choice and let markets mesh and evolve.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...


Until we recognize this, we’ll just roll along till the system blows up and the pain then will be infinitely worse effecting many many many more and the unfairness quotient will be many many many times larger.

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

Because health care like anything else is a matter of scarcity there by economics, why is it every lefty decides that they get to change the meaning of words and terms and mechanics of markets who deliver care no matter if its directed by the gov. or any private entity?

I’ll answer that….so as to put them on some ethereal plain so they can make it an emotional proposition ……that’s why, if you cannot beat them with facts get them whipped up and dopey with emotional balderdash.

and as to your last question; you do have one now, if you have a debate with your ins. co. and you disagree, you will have NO court of last resort when or if obamacare kicks in, the GOV says no, its NO, who you going to run too then? Where will you take YOUR business to then? Canada?

At least now youdo have advocates ala that very same gov. and private grps as well, and as far as being dead? whatever....

 

[Polk]

How do you know? When did they get a chance to vote on it in the last 10 years?

Looks like the voters in at least one district spoke pretty strongly on it last week...

No they didn't. They simply got snookered by some sleazy liberal pretending to be a member of the TEA party.

Sleazy liberal? That guy has ran for years under any ballot line he could get. Even so, if all of his votes had gone to the Republican, she'd have won 52-47 in an R+6 district. That's a pretty terrible outcome.

 

[The T]

Six of one……….this debate has become circular…..its a battle of philosophies.

Every plan will always be unfair to someone. Getting the system to perform, to capture the best of what it has to offer and provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people is what this is supposedly all about.

However, there is an ideological bridge that is keeping the parties apart; there are some who believe that the government is the best arbiter, they think they can, by their management stamp out every vestige of unfairness for/to everyone. They believe they can protect everyone from their own intrinsic lack of self interest in this context.

Conversely the other party feels that in the end, the gains via the above platform are marginal in that no one anywhere at anytime has ever been able to bend so complex a vehicle like healthcare so as to deliver to everyone everything, exactly equitably where in citizen *A gets exactly what citizen *B gets no matter their status, ala earning power or station in life. There will always be unfairness. It is what it is.

Its central planning vs. competitive market forces. The ideology of one seeks to harness the herd, the other seeks to free it to roam and to make a more individual choice and let markets mesh and evolve.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...


Until we recognize this, we’ll just roll along till the system blows up and the pain then will be infinitely worse effecting many many many more and the unfairness quotient will be many many many times larger.

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

Because health care like anything else is a matter of scarcity there by economics, why is it every lefty decides that they get to change the meaning of words and terms and mechanics of markets who deliver care no matter if its directed by the gov. or any private entity?

I’ll answer that….so as to put them on some ethereal plain so they can make it an emotional proposition ……that’s why, if you cannot beat them with facts get them whipped up and dopey with emotional balderdash.

and as to your last question; you do have one now, if you have a debate with your ins. co. and you disagree, you will have NO court of last resort when or if obamacare kicks in, the GOV says no, its NO, who you going to run too then? Where will you take YOUR business to then? Canada?

At least now you do have advocates ala that very same gov. and private grps as well, and as far as being dead? whatever....

*ON the mark*. Kudos.

 

[The T]

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

In other words, the Democrat plan is to abolish Medicare, but we already knew that.

No. It wasn't. But Conservatives continue to pander and lie about it.

The 500 Billion in savings was to be realized by reducing waste, corruption and fraud.

And the Health Care bill is designed to make people healthier. As in..when they reach their senior years..they live longer lives with out having to get treatment for ailments that start as the result of not getting regular check ups.

The Republican plan is the the one that seeks to abolish Medicare, let private industry handle it..and allow people to die. Like Jan Brewer did in Arizona.

NO $500BN taken away FROM it to cook the books to make it look like something it isn't.

 

[Sallow]

In other words, the Democrat plan is to abolish Medicare, but we already knew that.

No. It wasn't. But Conservatives continue to pander and lie about it.

The 500 Billion in savings was to be realized by reducing waste, corruption and fraud.

And the Health Care bill is designed to make people healthier. As in..when they reach their senior years..they live longer lives with out having to get treatment for ailments that start as the result of not getting regular check ups.

The Republican plan is the the one that seeks to abolish Medicare, let private industry handle it..and allow people to die. Like Jan Brewer did in Arizona.

NO $500BN taken away FROM it to cook the books to make it look like something it isn't.

Read it again.

And learn.

I sat on a jury that was convicted a Pharmacist of selling expensive drugs using phony scripts. He was done in by a brand new Unit in NYC responsible for Medicare scams.

That's how you save.

And your phony baloney complaining about it is telling.

 

[The T]

No. It wasn't. But Conservatives continue to pander and lie about it.

The 500 Billion in savings was to be realized by reducing waste, corruption and fraud.

And the Health Care bill is designed to make people healthier. As in..when they reach their senior years..they live longer lives with out having to get treatment for ailments that start as the result of not getting regular check ups.

The Republican plan is the the one that seeks to abolish Medicare, let private industry handle it..and allow people to die. Like Jan Brewer did in Arizona.

NO $500BN taken away FROM it to cook the books to make it look like something it isn't.

Read it again.

And learn.

I sat on a jury that was convicted a Pharmacist of selling expensive drugs using phony scripts. He was done in by a brand new Unit in NYC responsible for Medicare scams.

That's how you save.

And your phony baloney complaining about it is telling.

I don't care WHERE you sat unless it was on a steaming pile of YAKsqueeze...

What I said is true. You can't refute it but by obfuscation. Sorry...I don't buy into it swallow.

 

[Bfgrn]

Six of one……….this debate has become circular…..its a battle of philosophies.

Every plan will always be unfair to someone. Getting the system to perform, to capture the best of what it has to offer and provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people is what this is supposedly all about.

However, there is an ideological bridge that is keeping the parties apart; there are some who believe that the government is the best arbiter, they think they can, by their management stamp out every vestige of unfairness for/to everyone. They believe they can protect everyone from their own intrinsic lack of self interest in this context.

Conversely the other party feels that in the end, the gains via the above platform are marginal in that no one anywhere at anytime has ever been able to bend so complex a vehicle like healthcare so as to deliver to everyone everything, exactly equitably where in citizen *A gets exactly what citizen *B gets no matter their status, ala earning power or station in life. There will always be unfairness. It is what it is.

Its central planning vs. competitive market forces. The ideology of one seeks to harness the herd, the other seeks to free it to roam and to make a more individual choice and let markets mesh and evolve.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...


Until we recognize this, we’ll just roll along till the system blows up and the pain then will be infinitely worse effecting many many many more and the unfairness quotient will be many many many times larger.

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

Because health care like anything else is a matter of scarcity there by economics, why is it every lefty decides that they get to change the meaning of words and terms and mechanics of markets who deliver care no matter if its directed by the gov. or any private entity?

I’ll answer that….so as to put them on some ethereal plain so they can make it an emotional proposition ……that’s why, if you cannot beat them with facts get them whipped up and dopey with emotional balderdash.

and as to your last question; you do have one now, if you have a debate with your ins. co. and you disagree, you will have NO court of last resort when or if obamacare kicks in, the GOV says no, its NO, who you going to run too then? Where will you take YOUR business to then? Canada?

At least now youdo have advocates ala that very same gov. and private grps as well, and as far as being dead? whatever....

Health care is a matter of scarcity? Are you serious?

If you were facing a lethal illness like cancer and the insurance corporation denied paying for treatment, that human being's reaction would be 'whipped up and dopey with emotional balderdash'?

What kind of morals were you taught? You are not a human being, you are some life form that would make a terrorist look like a humanitarian.