Debunking the WTC 9/11 Molten Steel Argument

[BrianH]

you say they are are not justified and speak in such vague terms..its basically just an accusation with no specifics

Read your own post....you're doing the same.

 

[eots]

not even close to true.. I am very specific as to my questions and beliefs about 911..ONE VERY SIMPLE ONE ..HOW CAN THESE BUILDINGS..FALL AT FREE FALL SPEED...ANOTHER,,, WHAT OF THE MULTIPLE REPORTS OF FIRST RESPONDERS OF MOLTEN METAL WHERE DID THE TEMPERATURES REQUIRED TO MELT MASSES OF STEEL COME FROM ?..HOW COULD EVER SINGLE TRUSS AND JOINT GIVE WAT AT EXACT SAME MOMENT TO FACILITATE A EVEN COLLAPSE OF ALL THREE BUILDINGS INTO THERE OWN FOOTPRINT..EVEN THO DAMAGE AND HEAT WHERE NOT EVENLY DISTRIBUTED..JUST FOR A START

 

[BrianH]

not even close to true.. I am very specific as to my questions and beliefs about 911..ONE VERY SIMPLE ONE ..HOW CAN THESE BUILDINGS..FALL AT FREE FALL SPEED...ANOTHER,,, WHAT OF THE MULTIPLE REPORTS OF FIRST RESPONDERS OF MOLTEN METAL WHERE DID THE TEMPERATURES REQUIRED TO MELT MASSES OF STEEL COME FROM ?..HOW COULD EVER SINGLE TRUSS AND JOINT GIVE WAT AT EXACT SAME MOMENT TO FACILITATE A EVEN COLLAPSE OF ALL THREE BUILDINGS INTO THERE OWN FOOTPRINT..EVEN THO DAMAGE AND HEAT WHERE NOT EVENLY DISTRIBUTED..JUST FOR A START

I'll address your statements in order.

1st conspiracy sentence: Anything falling falls at free-fall speed, unless it has the aid of a parachute or propellor, which the WTC did not have deployed on its roof.

2nd Conspiracy sentence: Last I checked, things falling is created by gravity. Therfore, I jet-fuel burning several thousand degrees farenheit (enough to melt steel) was melting steel where the plane hit, therefore, the liquid molten metal(which takes the path of least resistance --down) was present all over the scene. By the way, jet-fuel burns hot enough to melt steel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
--Both sites talk about the temperature needed to melt steel.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4
--This site says that jet fuel doesn not burn hot enough to melt steel, but explains, in detail, what was needed to weaken the trusses...experts say this by the way. Steel burns from 800-1500 degrees--steel loses 50% of its strength at 1100 degrees.

3rd Conspiracy Sentence: If the government was really concerned with creating a devasting disaster, why would the even worry about making the towers fall "in their footprint." When killing thousands of people, why worry about a specific way that it falls? Why say, "well we want to make the WTC collapse and kill 3,000 of our citizens, but not hurt the surrounding buildings."?

 

[eots]

I'll address your statements in order.

1st conspiracy sentence: Anything falling falls at free-fall speed, unless it has the aid of a parachute or propellor, which the WTC did not have deployed on its roof.

there is something called Resistance the buildings where collapsing on them selves..shattering concrete heavy steel beams this would not allow for a free-fall speed

2nd Conspiracy sentence: Last I checked, things falling is created by gravity. Therfore, I jet-fuel burning several thousand degrees farenheit (enough to melt steel) was melting steel where the plane hit, therefore, the liquid molten metal(which takes the path of least resistance --down) was present all over the scene. By the way, jet-fuel burns hot enough to melt steel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html
--Both sites talk about the temperature needed to melt steel.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4
--This site says that jet fuel doesn't not burn hot enough to melt steel, but explains, in detail, what was needed to weaken the trusses...experts say this by the way. Steel burns from 800-1500 degrees--steel loses 50% of its strength at 1100 degrees.

nist reports fires in the range of 500-800 the temps you speak of are in ideal conditions with a clean burning fire ..not a black smoke oxygen starved fie like wtc ..underwriters is on record saying there would be No loss of strength at those temps as i have posted before..and the fact is there was many reports as i have posted of molten metal flowing in rivers like a foundry this is truly the best you can come up with the popular mechanics propaganda piece that does not even recognize nists findings and wikki

3rd Conspiracy Sentence: If the government was really concerned with creating a devasting disaster, why would the even worry about making the towers fall "in their footprint." When killing thousands of people, why worry about a specific way that it falls? Why say, "well we want to make the WTC collapse and kill 3,000 of our citizens, but not hurt the surrounding buildings

."?

all 3 buildings needed to be demolished at great cost all 3 owned by Larry silverstein..who admitted on PBS the order was given to pull building 7 it was a known historical terrorist target..a multitude of reasons



911 Molten Metal - Who is lying? FDNY eyewitnesses or NIST?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9qEIlNVl5s[/ame]



"Mr. Pull-It" Larry Silverstein and WTC 7

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZRnyAIMFWo


WTC 7 Free Fall Collapse
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U[/ame]

Hearst Magazines/popular mechanics
www.hearstmags.com -

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition - Cite This Source - Share This
yellow journalism


Inflammatory, irresponsible reporting by newspapers. The phrase arose during the 1890s, when some American newspapers, particularly those run by William Randolph Hearst, worked to incite hatred of Spain, thereby contributing to the start of the Spanish-American War. Newspapers that practice yellow journalism are called yellow press.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/yellow journalism

 

[BrianH]

Well I can see that it's obvious that no matter where you/I look up information, it's all different. Some sites claim that the fires were burning at such and such degrees, and some claim otherwise. Some claime that steel melts at 1,000 degrees, some say 1800, some say 2700.

You're cherry picking information to fit your belief, and assuming that the info. that you pick is better than the info anyone else posts.

That wasn't the best I can do, it took me 10 seconds to find those websites, my point being, anyone can google anything and get the info their looking for.

LIke I said a thousand times already, I'll agree that it should be reinvestigated and that the reports are missing things, but nothing you have posted proves that there was a conspiracy.

 

[eots]

yes underwriters is a far more credible post than your 10 sec popular mechanics search..as are first responders witnessing molten metal
and steel melts at 2750 f...its that simple

Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Laboratories (UL), the company which certified the steel used in the World trade centers
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBZTsa6j0Ag[/ame]


9/11 Coincidences (Part Eight
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIx2CVRxRXg[/ame]

 

[BrianH]

yes underwriters is a far more credible post than your 10 sec popular mechanics search..as are first responders witnessing molten metal
and steel melts at 2750 f...its that simple

Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Laboratories (UL), the company which certified the steel used in the World trade centers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBZTsa6j0Ag


9/11 Coincidences (Part Eight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIx2CVRxRXg

You say popular mechanics as if it's a little popular mechanics fairy and not trained experts writing the articles. Ok, so what are you claiming melted the steel?

And the intial impact of the plane (travelling 300-600 mph) had no effect on the trusses? You can't prove what happened because there were no experts the that were in WTC when it collapsed that have lived to tell about it. It is all speculation based on structural information and proposed conditions.

 

[eots]

You say popular mechanics as if it's a little popular mechanics fairy and not trained experts writing the articles. Ok, so what are you claiming melted the steel?

CHECK IT OUT.. NO THEY ARE NOT TRAINED EXPERTS... A FALSE ASSUMPTION

..Unpopular Mechanics making no sense at all! And people believe these so called experts!!!


http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...666&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4


http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...666&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

And the intial impact of the plane (travelling 300-600 mph) had no effect on the trusses?
You can't prove what happened because there were no experts the that were in WTC when it collapsed that have lived to tell about it. It is all speculation based on structural information and proposed conditions.[/

QUOTE]

THATS A RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT THE CAUSE OF STRUCTURAL FAILURES OR CRASH INVESTIGATION IS DONE ALL THE TIME WITHOUT HAVING EXPERTS PRESENT... THAT LIVED TO TELL ABOUT IT

 

[BrianH]

You say popular mechanics as if it's a little popular mechanics fairy and not trained experts writing the articles. Ok, so what are you claiming melted the steel?

CHECK IT OUT.. NO THEY ARE NOT TRAINED EXPERTS... A FALSE ASSUMPTION
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...666&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2


QUOTE]

THATS A RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT THE CAUSE OF STRUCTURAL FAILURES OR CRASH INVESTIGATION IS DONE ALL THE TIME WITHOUT HAVING EXPERTS PRESENT... THAT LIVED TO TELL ABOUT IT

I'll repeat the question, the initial impact of the 757 flying between 300-600 mph could not have weakened the trusses?

 

[eots]

Commentary by the Structural Engineer of the WTC...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...178&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7



Prof. Steven E. Jones about thermite melting WTC-steel
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...875&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6

 

[BrianH]

Ok, I've had fun, but I'll have to say that I'm done with this thread. We're not accomplishing anything. We're both too hard-headed to convince each-other of anything. I'll agree to disagree, and I'll leave it at that. You obviously have no shortage of information about 9-11 (I'll give you that--you've done your homework) but I just can't honestly say that I'm convinced.

 

[eots]

The Truth Will Find You...

 

[cbi0090]

The Truth Will Find You...

Wearing people down with volumes of nothing still does not add up to anything. Even the video's you show as proof does not contain what you think it does. I really think you need help.

 

[eots]

and i think your in complete denial and the "you need help" and false unsubstantiated claims of videos or evidence not saying ...blah blah blah is all you can desperately cling to.. as you try to maintain your... delusion

Capt. Edgar Mitchell, U.S. Navy (ret), BS Industrial Management, BS Aerontautical Engineering, Doctor of Science, Aeronautics and Astronautics from MIT – Pilot and Astronaut. Sixth man to walk on the moon (Apollo 14 mission). Patrol bomber and attack plane pilot, U.S. Navy. Test Pilot, Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 5 (VX-5). Chief of Project Management Division, Navy Field Office for the Manned Orbiting Laboratory Project. Graduated first in his class from the Aerospace Research Pilot School, and served as an instructor there. Recipient of many awards and honors including the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the USN Distinguished Medal and three NASA Group Achievement Awards. Inducted to the Space Hall of Fame in 1979 and the Astronaut Hall of Fame in 1998. Recipient of honorary doctorates in engineering from New Mexico State University, the University of Akron, Carnegie Mellon University, and a ScD from Embry-Riddle University. Founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
Endorser of and proposed Commissioner of a New Investigation into 9/11 as described in the New York City Ballot Initiative 11/08: "Petition to Create a NYC Independent Commission with Subpoena Power to Conduct a Comprehensive and Fact-Driven Investigation of All Relevant Aspects of the Tragic Events of September 11, 2001 and Issue a Report.

WHEREAS, many New York City voters believe that there remain many unanswered questions critical to establishing the truth about all relevant events leading up to, during and subsequent to the tragic attacks occurring on September 11, 2001 (“9/11&#8221, and

WHEREAS, no prior investigation by any New York City agency or any other governmental entity has resulted in the citizens being provided with those critical answers or information necessary to establish the truth about those tragic events, ...

An independent, temporary New York City commission (the “Commission&#8221 is hereby created to conduct a comprehensive, factdriven investigation into the events that took place on 9/11, as well as to thoroughly examine related events before and after the attacks, including any activities attempting to hide, cover up, impede or obstruct any investigation into these 9/11 events, following wherever the facts may lead. The Commission shall publish one or more reports of their findings."


Website: http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com
http://patriotsquestion911.com/

 

[LA RAM FAN]

DEBUNKING JACKSHIT...NICE TRY

exactly.that crap debunks nothing,disinformation and lies is all that crap is.
Eots and Brian H glad to see your awake and aware of the truth.
the people who continue to propage the official story of 9/11 are afraid of the truth.

 

[cbi0090]

I just looked at:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

and read into some of the full interviews and saw how they cut and paste their statements to fit into their viewpoints and it's one of the biggest sham's I've ever seen. I can't believe anyone takes it seriously.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

I just looked at:

()Your URL dis allowed by the MB()

and read into some of the full interviews and saw how they cut and paste their statements to fit into their viewpoints and it's one of the biggest sham's I've ever seen. I can't believe anyone takes it seriously.

Have you watched LOOSE CHANGE?

Everyone has an agenda, everyone has a propaganda point of view...

 

[Toro]

Have you watched LOOSE CHANGE?

Everyone has an agenda, everyone has a propaganda point of view...

Even better is UNFASTENED COINS!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI[/ame]

 

[eots]

I just looked at:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

and read into some of the full interviews and saw how they cut and paste their statements to fit into their viewpoints and it's one of the biggest sham's I've ever seen. I can't believe anyone takes it seriously.

bullshit..provide a example..these statements are very direct and clear and hardly out of context


]Dwain Deets, MS Physics, MS Eng – Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center. Before this appointment, he served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden. Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award and the Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988). Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics, a distinguished speaking engagement sponsored by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) (1986). Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000. Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers. Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology. 37 year NASA career.
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"The many visual images (massive structural members being hurled horizontally, huge pyroclastic clouds, etc.) leave no doubt in my mind explosives were involved [in the destruction of the World Trade Center]." http://www.ae911truth.org


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 350 Architects and Engineers:




























"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." http://www.ae911truth.org/joinus.php


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse.


Bio: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov









Larry L. Erickson, MS, PhD
No photo available

Larry L. Erickson, BS Aeronautical Eng, MS Aeronautical Eng, PhD Eng Mechanics – Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer and Research Scientist. Conducted research in the fields of structural dynamics, aerodynamics, aeroelasticity and flutter. Recipient of NASA's Aerodynamics Division Researcher-of-the-Year Award. 33-year NASA career. Member, American Institute of Aeronautics & Astronautics. Instructor, Physics and Aerospace Engineering, California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo 1998 - present. Author and co-author of several scientific papers on aerodynamic analysis. Contributing author to Applied Computational Aerodynamics (1990).
Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:
"Serious technical investigations by experts seem to be lacking from the official explanations." http://www.ae911truth.org


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11, signed by more than 350 Architects and Engineers:

"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe that there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore that the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7." http://www.ae911truth.org/joinus.php


Editor's note: WTC Building 7 was 610 feet tall, 47 stories. It would have been the tallest building in 33 states. Although it was not hit by an airplane, it completely collapsed into a pile of rubble in less than 7 seconds at 5:20 p.m. on 9/11, seven hours after the collapses of the Twin Towers. However, no mention of its collapse appears in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." Watch the collapse video here. And six years after 9/11, the Federal government has yet to publish its promised final report that explains the cause of its collapse

 

[eots]

I just looked at:

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

and read into some of the full interviews and saw how they cut and paste their statements to fit into their viewpoints and it's one of the biggest sham's I've ever seen. I can't believe anyone takes it seriously.

bullshit..empty statement..provide a example..the statements and petition are very clear