Cutting taxes sounds great till

[Avatar4321]

If tax cuts are the answer to all of our problems, and if tax cuts always increase revenues, then why don't we just cut taxes to zero. Apparently, your argument that every tax cut increases revenues would suggest that we would get the greatest return by cutting taxes to zero. Or is there a point when the formula no longer works?

yeah lets just not have a tax and see how far our governments go.

No one here is arguing for no taxes. Next stupid comment please.

No. No one is, but isn't it a nice dream?

 

[mnbasketball]

The kid is nothing more then a leftist troll who thinks he knows what it is that he is talking about. After the three responses he should have realized he was in over his head LOL instead hold's his talking points up like some sort of unstoppable truth...you do have to laugh at the left. The time for pity has long since past.

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates know more about taxes than anybody here, and both state that the middle class pays a higher percentage of their income in taxes than do the wealthy.

Warren Buffett: Read My Lips, Raise My Taxes - ABC News

In an exclusive interview on "This Week," Warren Buffett, Chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, told Christiane Amanpour that the rich should be paying more taxes and that the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy should be left to expire at the end of December.


More Video
Watch: Buffett Says Feds 'Did the Right Thing' in 2008
Watch: Madeleine Albright and Sen Lindsey Graham on START
Watch: Mike Mullen on the Future of Afghanistan (Part 1)"If anything, taxes for the lower and middle class and maybe even the upper middle class should even probably be cut further," Buffett said. "But I think that people at the high end -- people like myself -- should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it."

The full Buffett interview will air on a special Thanksgiving edition of "This Week" focused on The Giving Pledge, a major philanthropic effort spearheaded by Buffet, and Bill and Melinda Gates

See how naive you are?

Duh...

OF COURSE THE RICH PAY A LOWER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME THAN THE NON RICH.( of course)

But when it comes to TAXABLE INCOME it is a different story.(hows that?)

And what separates income from taxable income? The difference is money that the riuch forgo to charities and community projects....( give me a fucking break, the bottom 20% give a bigger % of their income to charity than the rich do) take away Gates, Buffett and couple more and its way higher.

You are way to naive to have this debate with.( and you are unable to look at facts and see the truth, you know what you want to know and nothing will ever sink into that thick head of yours)


You BRAGGED about a statistic that actually SUPPORTS our side of the debate..(oh yeah what's that?)



You are out of your league.

The truth is after what the govt gives as a tax break to every citizen (you included) the middle class pays a much larger share to taxes of what they make than the rich do. The rich pay a low 30% rate of their total income to all taxes and fees while the middle class pays close to 60% after the tax relief given to every last person.
Not to consider that the middle class pays a far bigger share of their income in providing everything he needs to have and hold a job which goes so far in providing the rich the ability to make more.

The rich have no disadvantages. You guys think that a guy with one leg would have an advantage because he only needs to buy one shoe.

 

[gekaap]

Because a significantly larger portion of society refuses to acknowledge their responsibility in why they are where they are. From hedge fund managers down to the millions of people who 'bought' homes they had no financial business buying.

It doesn't have anything to do with who is taxed how much. It has to do with a society that has absolved itself of more and more personal responsibility over the years. People don't think certain things are their responsibility or they blame others for problems they themselves caused. And yet we have the gall to wonder our economy is tanking when everything is supposedly someone elses responsibility.

Ah, so tax cuts will NOT have any effect on the economy. Okay then, we should avoid tax cuts at this time, then. Our country is facing a huge debt and deficit crisis. We should wait until after those issues have been handled before we worry about tax cuts. That's only the responsible thing to do.

 

[boedicca]

Spending one's life worrying that somebody somewhere is better off is a very pathetic lifestyle choice.

Just sayin'.

 

[gekaap]

I like how in huge portions of of the world their primary view of government is they are worried about government breaking down their doors at night and they or their parents or children disappear. In most of the world they are worried that government doesn't allow them the freedom to simply make their own choices or speak out for making their own choices. In this country, liberals live in endless hysterical fear that government isn't giving them enough. It's just a fundamental lack of perspective.

Have you been snorting propaganda confetti again?

 

[Jarhead]

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates know more about taxes than anybody here, and both state that the middle class pays a higher percentage of their income in taxes than do the wealthy.

Warren Buffett: Read My Lips, Raise My Taxes - ABC News

In an exclusive interview on "This Week," Warren Buffett, Chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, told Christiane Amanpour that the rich should be paying more taxes and that the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy should be left to expire at the end of December.


More Video
Watch: Buffett Says Feds 'Did the Right Thing' in 2008
Watch: Madeleine Albright and Sen Lindsey Graham on START
Watch: Mike Mullen on the Future of Afghanistan (Part 1)"If anything, taxes for the lower and middle class and maybe even the upper middle class should even probably be cut further," Buffett said. "But I think that people at the high end -- people like myself -- should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it."

The full Buffett interview will air on a special Thanksgiving edition of "This Week" focused on The Giving Pledge, a major philanthropic effort spearheaded by Buffet, and Bill and Melinda Gates

See how naive you are?

Duh...

OF COURSE THE RICH PAY A LOWER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME THAN THE NON RICH.( of course)

But when it comes to TAXABLE INCOME it is a different story.(hows that?)

And what separates income from taxable income? The difference is money that the riuch forgo to charities and community projects....( give me a fucking break, the bottom 20% give a bigger % of their income to charity than the rich do) take away Gates, Buffett and couple more and its way higher.

You are way to naive to have this debate with.( and you are unable to look at facts and see the truth, you know what you want to know and nothing will ever sink into that thick head of yours)


You BRAGGED about a statistic that actually SUPPORTS our side of the debate..(oh yeah what's that?)



You are out of your league.

The truth is after what the govt gives as a tax break to every citizen (you included) the middle class pays a much larger share to taxes of what they make than the rich do. The rich pay a low 30% rate of their total income to all taxes and fees while the middle class pays close to 60% after the tax relief given to every last person.
Not to consider that the middle class pays a far bigger share of their income in providing everything he needs to have and hold a job which goes so far in providing the rich the ability to make more.

The rich have no disadvantages. You guys think that a guy with one leg would have an advantage because he only needs to buy one shoe.

So what you are saying is that the middle gives infinitely less to charities and community projects than the upper class.

You are aware that you are ignoring the fact that the way "the rich" are able to minimize their tax burden is my minimizing their taxable income...and now with tax shelters a thing of the past, the way they do that is with tax credit investments and charitable donations...

I mean...you clainm to be rich....so you are aware of this...arent you?

 

[Avatar4321]

The truth is after what the govt gives as a tax break to every citizen (you included) the middle class pays a much larger share to taxes of what they make than the rich do. The rich pay a low 30% rate of their total income to all taxes and fees while the middle class pays close to 60% after the tax relief given to every last person.
Not to consider that the middle class pays a far bigger share of their income in providing everything he needs to have and hold a job which goes so far in providing the rich the ability to make more.

The rich have no disadvantages. You guys think that a guy with one leg would have an advantage because he only needs to buy one shoe.

If you're paying 60% of your income to the Federal Government, then you need to fire your accountant.

But if you think anyone should be working until April to pay the Federal Government, you need to be locked up in an insane assylum.

 

[Skull Pilot]

yeah lets just not have a tax and see how far our governments go.

No one here is arguing for no taxes. Next stupid comment please.

No. No one is, but isn't it a nice dream?

It would be nice to get rid of the income tax.

I'd also love to see everyone have to write a check to the IRS every year so people will actually know what they have to pay the fucking government in taxes every year.

Once people have to start writing checks for 10, 20, 30 or 40 thousand dollars every year I'll bet they'll all be in favor of a drastic reduction in the size of government.

Face it folks the biggest government scam besides Social Security is the direct deduction of taxes from your paychecks. The government basically forces you idiots to give it an interest free loan.

 

[Cuyo]

And the Tax system is fair how? if it were fair then everyone would pay into the system and those using the system would pay even higher amounts that would be be fair. The system as it stands now will collapse

The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government — the highest percentage in modern history — while the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden.

The share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

James Pethokoukis

That's a stupid statistic. They're paying more because they're controlling an ever increasing percentage of the wealth.

400 people, 400, in this country, have more wealth than the bottom 150,000,000 combined. Since you're a statistician now, how does that statistic grab ya?

 

[gekaap]

Name one thing a rich VP of a company gets from government that a fry cook at McDonalds does not

Multi million dollar tax cuts and credits every year.

 

[gekaap]

I've read the Constitution several times and never saw it there. Is there a government Mission Statement I've missed somewhere along the line? Or are you just friggin' nuts?

The Preamble might be a good place to start.

 

[Jarhead]

Name one thing a rich VP of a company gets from government that a fry cook at McDonalds does not

Multi million dollar tax cuts and credits every year.

Wrong.

You are sounding quite naive.....the left talking heads have you regurgitsating things you know nothing about.

They both are offered the exact same thing.

The only way they can get the "tax cuts" and "tax credits" is by parting with their money in a way that betters the country.

If they get to spend it? It is taxable income.

 

[boedicca]

No one here is arguing for no taxes. Next stupid comment please.

No. No one is, but isn't it a nice dream?

It would be nice to get rid of the income tax.

I'd also love to see everyone have to write a check to the IRS every year so people will actually know what they have to pay the fucking government in taxes every year.

Once people have to start writing checks for 10, 20, 30 or 40 thousand dollars every year I'll bet they'll all be in favor of a drastic reduction in the size of government.

Face it folks the biggest government scam besides Social Security is the direct deduction of taxes from your paychecks. The government basically forces you idiots to give it an interest free loan.

Indeed. Payroll deductions and hidden taxes are the friends of Big Government Cronyism and Corruption. They are one of the reasons why the unions in WI are so dug in about collective bargaining. They are desperate for the mandatory due withholding gravy train to continue.

 

[Avatar4321]

Indeed. Payroll deductions and hidden taxes are the friends of Big Government Cronyism and Corruption. They are one of the reasons why the unions in WI are so dug in about collective bargaining. They are desperate for the mandatory due withholding gravy train to continue.

Can you blame them? When they actually have to do something to convince people to pay money to them, they can't get as much. It's their life blood to force money from others. That's why they are fighting so hard.

 

[gekaap]

It's called natural law. There are consequences for bad behavior that come regardless of what the government does.

I understand what you're saying. I get it, you hate the government and wish it would be abolished, and would rather live in anarchy. That's your right to feel that way, and even though I disagree with you, I respect your views. But personally, I'm a little patriotic. I love my country and our constitution, and our system of government. It's not perfect, but I love living in a country were the people all band together to protect our common rights, and to strive for the common good.

 

[Avatar4321]

So MNBasketball, you are retired. Are you living off some government run pension you are worried is going to not be paid if we actually take responsibility as a nation and stop spending money we don't have?

 

[boedicca]

And the Tax system is fair how? if it were fair then everyone would pay into the system and those using the system would pay even higher amounts that would be be fair. The system as it stands now will collapse

The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government — the highest percentage in modern history — while the top 1 percent paid 24.8 percent of the income tax burden.

The share of the tax burden borne by the top 1 percent now exceeds the share paid by the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers combined. In 2007, the bottom 95 percent paid 39.4 percent of the income tax burden. This is down from the 58 percent of the total income tax burden they paid twenty years ago.

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

James Pethokoukis

That's a stupid statistic. They're paying more because they're controlling an ever increasing percentage of the wealth.

400 people, 400, in this country, have more wealth than the bottom 150,000,000 combined. Since you're a statistician now, how does that statistic grab ya?

You miss the Very Obvious Relationship.

You complain the government benefits The Rich at the expense of The Middle Class and The Poor, but then think the concentration of fewer and fewer people paying more and more of the federal tax burden is a good thing.

If The Rich are paying for the government, government has a big incentive to cater to their interests in order to Keep The Money Flowing. This is why we have a byzantine tax system and corrupt regulatory structure - and a huge entitlement system to entice The Poor to provide votes.

The only way to create a climate of fairness is to quit using the tax code for transfer payments and social engineering, and to shrink the size of government (spending) so their are less goodies to redistribute.

 

[Bern80]

To answer your questions one has to assume the premises behind them are valid, and I'm afraid I can't do that.

So then, that still leaves us with the question: What is the economic policy of the country going to be?

The government doesn't need to have much of an economic policy. There doesn't need to be a government period, for an economy to exist. Such a question presumes that the public sector is supposed to distribute some type of 'plan' for the private sector to follow. Well that simply isn't so. Especially if you prepose a free market economy. There is no such concept as an economc policy in a free market. The govrnment role in it should be little more than protecting basic private property rights and a legal process for those who are wronged by private business.

And on what basis will it be justified?

it can be justified a lot of ways. it can be based on majority rule. If everyone says they would rather have communism than we can have communism. If we decided to go with what is in the best interest of the society, we can do that to. It's not so much a justification as a decision a society has to make. Does it want freedom, with all the risks that entails, or does it want security with the loss of freedom that entails.

Shall we cut taxes for the wealthy and further our debt and deficit problems? How is that going to benefit the country?

Again it depends on the premise of the quesiton. You assume that if we cut taxes for the wealthy the only possible outcome would be to increase the debt. That simply isn't so either. If we are going to cut taxes government needs to seriously reexamine it's role in society. Clearly and undeniably our government has historically and continues to encroach into more and more areas of the private sector and has decided to entitle people to more things. That costs money and if society deems it wants security rather than freedom, well than let democracy rule I guess. I say security instead of freedom because to me freedom is money. The more money you have the freer you are to do the things you want. If we choose to be secure instead taxes will necessarily have to increase to provide that security and thus your freedom is decreased. I would much rather be free as I believe I am far more capable than government of providing for most of my own security.

 

[Jarhead]

It's called natural law. There are consequences for bad behavior that come regardless of what the government does.

I understand what you're saying. I get it, you hate the government and wish it would be abolished, and would rather live in anarchy. That's your right to feel that way, and even though I disagree with you, I respect your views. But personally, I'm a little patriotic. I love my country and our constitution, and our system of government. It's not perfect, but I love living in a country were the people all band together to protect our common rights, and to strive for the common good.

Do you prefer giving a homeless man a dollar....or giving the government that dollar to give to the holmeess man and by the time it gets to him it is only worth 25 cents?

It is not a hatred for government. Our government was designed to do what it has done for nearly 300 years....but when it comes to spending...they just plain old suck at it.

 

[gekaap]

Now, businesses that are taxed less and have less restrictions placed on them are more likely to grow, and thereby need to hire additional employees, but again that's up to them to determine how and when to hire people, not the Federal Government.

Okay. While I disagree with your analysis (I find it a little too simplistic, personally) at least you're articulating something cognent, unlike most people in this thread. So let me ask you this: If businesses, after being taxed less, still do not create jobs, being their prerogative, should they still enjoy having their taxes eased? How does that benefit the country?