Current lies about Ebola.

[Rotagilla]

the problem is that people who lack understanding, like you do, and who pass along, rumor and ignorance, create panic. it is important to understand what the means of transmission of this virus is... and it isn't you standing in the same room as someone with the illness. it is touch and exposure to bodily fluids, whether saliva, mucous, vomit or the like.

creating hysteria by perpetuation of ignorance helps no one.

Little girl,this isn't rumor or ignorance. This is a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors working with ebola..


Canadian Health Agency Deletes Info on “Airborne Spread” of Ebola
October 2, 2014

The Public Health Agency of Canada has deleted information from its official website which indicated that the “airborne spread” of Ebola was strongly suspected by health authorities, amidst efforts by officials in Texas to calm concerns about the first outbreak of the virus in America.

The image below shows the original Public Health Agency of Canada website’s information page on the Ebola virus as it appeared on August 20th compared to how it appears now.

Under a section entitled “mode of transmission,” the original text stated that, “airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated.”

However, the amended text states that, “airborne transmission has not been demonstrated between non-human primates.”

Both passages refer to a 2012 study by Canadian scientists which indicated that the Ebola virus could be transmitted by air between different species.

“Researchers from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the country’s Public Health Agency have shown that pigs infected with this form of Ebola can pass the disease on to macaques without any direct contact between the species,” reported BBC News.

 

[PredFan]

Lie #5:

Stopping travel to and from the affected countries will make the epidemic worse.

If you hear this, know that the person saying it is an idiot. The first rule of fighting an epidemic is containment. When we have people in the hospital with an infectious disease, we put them in isolation. We do not allow them to mingle with the other patient population. In most cases we don't even allow the caregivers to care for any other patient at the same time.

NO ONE is saying stop supplies and medical personnel from going to and from the affected countries. We mean commercial travel. Saying stopping commercial flights from those countries will make it worse is absurd in the extreme. That's like me saying if I don't let my isolation patient walk around the hospital, his infectious disease will get worse. It's nonsense.

 

[PredFan]

Nothing in there disputes what I said. Can you point to anything that you think might disagree with me? Perhaps you can help me to understand.

I can explain it to you but I can't make you comprehend if you don't want to.
I'm not running in circles over the same ground again and again. It's all right there for you.
What you allege...and what virologists and epidemiologists and doctors have found in a study are two different results...dismiss it...pretend you don't understand..whatever. Surely you know more than they do...

I'm not asking you to explain it, I understand it fully. What I'm asking you to do is show me where that disputes anything I'm saying. Show me the part that you think proves me wrong. Help me to understand where you are getting your opinion from. I see nothing in your article that proves that Ebola is an airborne virus.

I'm not trying to prove you "wrong"...I was showing you things that didn't line up with your claims...a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors...you keep pretending you don't understand the plain simple english in their report...ok..fine..but I'm done trying to have an honest discussion with you. There's just no point.

You seem to be having trouble with your reading.

I'll repeat myself: I understand fully what is in the report. When I say "help me understand" I meant help me understand how you are getting your opinions from that article. I understand it, do you?

play dumb again and I'm out...

This isn't about my "opinions"

I showed you a study that had evidence contrary to what you have claimed.
You dodge and evade addressing it, though.
You can read...you know what you said...you see what their study showed..there are differences...are you able to compare and contrast?


If you cannot or will not keep pace with the discussion, perhaps you should excuse yourself from it.

I appreciate any input you may have, but I'm tired of redundant, mundane repetition of the same things over and over as you refuse to address them.
I am not going to try to have an honest discussion with somebody who has no logical point to make, and doesn't stand for anything other than being contrary.

I have already posted the study for you pages ago, if you did not understand then, go back and re-read, and if you still do not understand, then you do not possess the necessary intellect to post here and should go elsewhere, good day.

I thought you were done.

 

[PredFan]

Lie#6:

People infected with Ebola could be crossing the border into America.

This may eventually become truth, but as of now, it isn't. First of all, a person must get infected with the virus. As soon as they do they are in a ticking clock. They only have a few days to get through the quarantine in Africa, then get to the airport, then fly to one country, to get aboard another plane to fly to Mexico. Then this person has to cross the border into the US. Despite the fact that our borders are open to illegals, it takes time and effort to cross. The likely hood of a patient getting to the US by that route before he or she is incapacitated by the disease is slim.

The point at which people crossing into the US from Mexico with the disease will only be a real threat when there is a major outbreak in Mexico.

If I was a terrorist and wanted to start an epidemic here, I'd go through canada. Much less time and more likely to succeed.

 

[Rotagilla]

I can explain it to you but I can't make you comprehend if you don't want to.
I'm not running in circles over the same ground again and again. It's all right there for you.
What you allege...and what virologists and epidemiologists and doctors have found in a study are two different results...dismiss it...pretend you don't understand..whatever. Surely you know more than they do...

I'm not asking you to explain it, I understand it fully. What I'm asking you to do is show me where that disputes anything I'm saying. Show me the part that you think proves me wrong. Help me to understand where you are getting your opinion from. I see nothing in your article that proves that Ebola is an airborne virus.

I'm not trying to prove you "wrong"...I was showing you things that didn't line up with your claims...a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors...you keep pretending you don't understand the plain simple english in their report...ok..fine..but I'm done trying to have an honest discussion with you. There's just no point.

You seem to be having trouble with your reading.

I'll repeat myself: I understand fully what is in the report. When I say "help me understand" I meant help me understand how you are getting your opinions from that article. I understand it, do you?

play dumb again and I'm out...

This isn't about my "opinions"

I showed you a study that had evidence contrary to what you have claimed.
You dodge and evade addressing it, though.
You can read...you know what you said...you see what their study showed..there are differences...are you able to compare and contrast?


If you cannot or will not keep pace with the discussion, perhaps you should excuse yourself from it.

I appreciate any input you may have, but I'm tired of redundant, mundane repetition of the same things over and over as you refuse to address them.
I am not going to try to have an honest discussion with somebody who has no logical point to make, and doesn't stand for anything other than being contrary.

I have already posted the study for you pages ago, if you did not understand then, go back and re-read, and if you still do not understand, then you do not possess the necessary intellect to post here and should go elsewhere, good day.

I thought you were done.

I mistakenly considered you a mature adult who could have an honest discussion.
My error. Won't happen again.

 

[Care4all]

Lie #5:

Stopping travel to and from the affected countries will make the epidemic worse.

If you hear this, know that the person saying it is an idiot. The first rule of fighting an epidemic is containment. When we have people in the hospital with an infectious disease, we put them in isolation. We do not allow them to mingle with the other patient population. In most cases we don't even allow the caregivers to care for any other patient at the same time.

NO ONE is saying stop supplies and medical personnel from going to and from the affected countries. We mean commercial travel. Saying stopping commercial flights from those countries will make it worse is absurd in the extreme. That's like me saying if I don't let my isolation patient walk around the hospital, his infectious disease will get worse. It's nonsense.

agree...and wonder....
Is it the fear of those in America trading with these nations and importing goods from these Nations that are the ones pushing that commercial flights continue because they don't want an embargo of goods to come down upon them???

Who are the advisers of Obama that have convinced him not to stop commercial flights and what is their reasoning? Do medicines and supplies fly commercial flights as their transporter? Do Doctors and nurses and volunteers use these commercial flights? etc...? Obama would not make this decision on his own, no president would, so I wonder what his advisers are thinking and who is truly behind this decision, and why...?

 

[MikeK]

In spite of the endless, overwhelmingly redundant stream of "news" coverage I remain utterly ignorant concerning the way this insidious bug is transmitted.

When the first identified case was announced we were told infection required physical contact with a carrier who is manifesting symptoms. So far I've read and heard about three infected individuals each of whom had relatively limited contact with the carrier. But I haven't heard anything about those who had the most intimate contact with him.

Thomas Duncan spent several days in the same apartment with a woman friend and her two daughters. These people were closely familiar with Duncan and presumably engaged in some level of physical contact (familial hugging and kissing) with him. He slept in that apartment, vomited and toileted in that apartment. His soiled clothing and bedding items remained in that apartment for days and were handled by the occupants. He vomited on a nearby sidewalk and that was cleaned up by a janitor.

Thus far I haven't heard a word about any of those most closely exposed individuals. Is it because the endless bombardment of redundant reportage has caused me to tune out? If so, has anyone else here heard anything about Duncan's host and her daughters?

Where are they? Have they manifested any symptoms? If not, that would suggest some natural immunity. Yet, no mention of them.

 

[PredFan]

Lie#7: (I'm not sure this has been said yet, but it's only a matter of time)

Terrorists can spread infection and start an Ebola epidemic here in the US.

If the could, why haven't they done it already? Ebola has been here for decades now. A year ago, two years ago, there were people dying of Ebola infections. You didn't hear about it because it was only a handful of people. Any terrorist organization could have done it already IF THEY COULD.

The fact is that all of the points I brought up already about passing the disease on, are true and they make Ebola a poor choice for biological WMDs.

 

[PredFan]

I'm not asking you to explain it, I understand it fully. What I'm asking you to do is show me where that disputes anything I'm saying. Show me the part that you think proves me wrong. Help me to understand where you are getting your opinion from. I see nothing in your article that proves that Ebola is an airborne virus.

I'm not trying to prove you "wrong"...I was showing you things that didn't line up with your claims...a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors...you keep pretending you don't understand the plain simple english in their report...ok..fine..but I'm done trying to have an honest discussion with you. There's just no point.

You seem to be having trouble with your reading.

I'll repeat myself: I understand fully what is in the report. When I say "help me understand" I meant help me understand how you are getting your opinions from that article. I understand it, do you?

play dumb again and I'm out...

This isn't about my "opinions"

I showed you a study that had evidence contrary to what you have claimed.
You dodge and evade addressing it, though.
You can read...you know what you said...you see what their study showed..there are differences...are you able to compare and contrast?


If you cannot or will not keep pace with the discussion, perhaps you should excuse yourself from it.

I appreciate any input you may have, but I'm tired of redundant, mundane repetition of the same things over and over as you refuse to address them.
I am not going to try to have an honest discussion with somebody who has no logical point to make, and doesn't stand for anything other than being contrary.

I have already posted the study for you pages ago, if you did not understand then, go back and re-read, and if you still do not understand, then you do not possess the necessary intellect to post here and should go elsewhere, good day.

I thought you were done.

I mistakenly considered you a mature adult who could have an honest discussion.
My error. Won't happen again.

Yeah well you made one mistake after another in this thread.

 

[PredFan]

Lie #5:

Stopping travel to and from the affected countries will make the epidemic worse.

If you hear this, know that the person saying it is an idiot. The first rule of fighting an epidemic is containment. When we have people in the hospital with an infectious disease, we put them in isolation. We do not allow them to mingle with the other patient population. In most cases we don't even allow the caregivers to care for any other patient at the same time.

NO ONE is saying stop supplies and medical personnel from going to and from the affected countries. We mean commercial travel. Saying stopping commercial flights from those countries will make it worse is absurd in the extreme. That's like me saying if I don't let my isolation patient walk around the hospital, his infectious disease will get worse. It's nonsense.

agree...and wonder....
Is it the fear of those in America trading with these nations and importing goods from these Nations that are the ones pushing that commercial flights continue because they don't want an embargo of goods to come down upon them???

Who are the advisers of Obama that have convinced him not to stop commercial flights and what is their reasoning? Do medicines and supplies fly commercial flights as their transporter? Do Doctors and nurses and volunteers use these commercial flights? etc...? Obama would not make this decision on his own, no president would, so I wonder what his advisers are thinking and who is truly behind this decision, and why...?

I don't think those countries export anything.

IMO, Obama simply wants to have a legacy with Africa before he leaves office. He doesn't give a rats ass about the US. Watch him. I'll bet he's all about Africa after he leaves. I'm sure he's pissed that Bush is more popular in Africa than he is.

But that is for another thread.

 

[Rotagilla]

I'm not trying to prove you "wrong"...I was showing you things that didn't line up with your claims...a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors...you keep pretending you don't understand the plain simple english in their report...ok..fine..but I'm done trying to have an honest discussion with you. There's just no point.

You seem to be having trouble with your reading.

I'll repeat myself: I understand fully what is in the report. When I say "help me understand" I meant help me understand how you are getting your opinions from that article. I understand it, do you?

play dumb again and I'm out...

This isn't about my "opinions"

I showed you a study that had evidence contrary to what you have claimed.
You dodge and evade addressing it, though.
You can read...you know what you said...you see what their study showed..there are differences...are you able to compare and contrast?


If you cannot or will not keep pace with the discussion, perhaps you should excuse yourself from it.

I appreciate any input you may have, but I'm tired of redundant, mundane repetition of the same things over and over as you refuse to address them.
I am not going to try to have an honest discussion with somebody who has no logical point to make, and doesn't stand for anything other than being contrary.

I have already posted the study for you pages ago, if you did not understand then, go back and re-read, and if you still do not understand, then you do not possess the necessary intellect to post here and should go elsewhere, good day.

I thought you were done.

I mistakenly considered you a mature adult who could have an honest discussion.
My error. Won't happen again.

Yeah well you made one mistake after another in this thread.

No not really..the fact that you won't address the study is telling.
The worst mistake I made was taking you for a reasonable adult.
LMAO..I posted a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors who work with ebola and linked to it...


You allege to be in "healthcare"....you allege to know more than they do..yet you post mere opinions with no support and then pretend you're debunking "lies".

You fooled me for a few minutes..I see right through you now, though.

 

[Ravi]

Lie #5:

Stopping travel to and from the affected countries will make the epidemic worse.

If you hear this, know that the person saying it is an idiot. The first rule of fighting an epidemic is containment. When we have people in the hospital with an infectious disease, we put them in isolation. We do not allow them to mingle with the other patient population. In most cases we don't even allow the caregivers to care for any other patient at the same time.

NO ONE is saying stop supplies and medical personnel from going to and from the affected countries. We mean commercial travel. Saying stopping commercial flights from those countries will make it worse is absurd in the extreme. That's like me saying if I don't let my isolation patient walk around the hospital, his infectious disease will get worse. It's nonsense.

agree...and wonder....
Is it the fear of those in America trading with these nations and importing goods from these Nations that are the ones pushing that commercial flights continue because they don't want an embargo of goods to come down upon them???

Who are the advisers of Obama that have convinced him not to stop commercial flights and what is their reasoning? Do medicines and supplies fly commercial flights as their transporter? Do Doctors and nurses and volunteers use these commercial flights? etc...? Obama would not make this decision on his own, no president would, so I wonder what his advisers are thinking and who is truly behind this decision, and why...?

I don't think those countries export anything.

IMO, Obama simply wants to have a legacy with Africa before he leaves office. He doesn't give a rats ass about the US. Watch him. I'll bet he's all about Africa after he leaves. I'm sure he's pissed that Bush is more popular in Africa than he is.

But that is for another thread.

You were doing pretty good until you posted that, which should actually be lie number 8 by your tally.

 

[percysunshine]

Lie#4

The CDC doesn't know what it's doing.

The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes.

It is correct about Ebola only being transmissible when the patient is symptomatic. That is why the family of the victim doesn't have the virus, and why the people who flew with him over here don't either. The two nurses got infected when he was dying of the disease.

The CDC fucked up royally when they let that woman fly with a 99 degree temp, and they are full of more shit than a backed up septic tank when they say that stopping travel out if infected countries will make the epidemic worse.

But they know the virus better than anyone, and they are correct in the most important respect.

Ok...I am calling bullshit.

You claim that it is a lie that the CDC does not know what it's doing, and yet, in the same post, you claim that they fucked up royally.

Explain this.

.

You didn't read the whole thing did you?

Every word.

.

 

[PredFan]

Lie #5:

Stopping travel to and from the affected countries will make the epidemic worse.

If you hear this, know that the person saying it is an idiot. The first rule of fighting an epidemic is containment. When we have people in the hospital with an infectious disease, we put them in isolation. We do not allow them to mingle with the other patient population. In most cases we don't even allow the caregivers to care for any other patient at the same time.

NO ONE is saying stop supplies and medical personnel from going to and from the affected countries. We mean commercial travel. Saying stopping commercial flights from those countries will make it worse is absurd in the extreme. That's like me saying if I don't let my isolation patient walk around the hospital, his infectious disease will get worse. It's nonsense.

agree...and wonder....
Is it the fear of those in America trading with these nations and importing goods from these Nations that are the ones pushing that commercial flights continue because they don't want an embargo of goods to come down upon them???

Who are the advisers of Obama that have convinced him not to stop commercial flights and what is their reasoning? Do medicines and supplies fly commercial flights as their transporter? Do Doctors and nurses and volunteers use these commercial flights? etc...? Obama would not make this decision on his own, no president would, so I wonder what his advisers are thinking and who is truly behind this decision, and why...?

I don't think those countries export anything.

IMO, Obama simply wants to have a legacy with Africa before he leaves office. He doesn't give a rats ass about the US. Watch him. I'll bet he's all about Africa after he leaves. I'm sure he's pissed that Bush is more popular in Africa than he is.

But that is for another thread.

You were doing pretty good until you posted that, which should actually be lie number 8 by your tally.

No, I went back and checked, the count is right.
And I'm leaving the Obama stuff for another thread. When I start a thread I like to answer questions at least once. That was the once.

 

[PredFan]

Lie#4

The CDC doesn't know what it's doing.

The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes.

It is correct about Ebola only being transmissible when the patient is symptomatic. That is why the family of the victim doesn't have the virus, and why the people who flew with him over here don't either. The two nurses got infected when he was dying of the disease.

The CDC fucked up royally when they let that woman fly with a 99 degree temp, and they are full of more shit than a backed up septic tank when they say that stopping travel out if infected countries will make the epidemic worse.

But they know the virus better than anyone, and they are correct in the most important respect.

Ok...I am calling bullshit.

You claim that it is a lie that the CDC does not know what it's doing, and yet, in the same post, you claim that they fucked up royally.

Explain this.

.

You didn't read the whole thing did you?

Every word.

.

Well, you missed this part though:

"The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes."

 

[PredFan]

You seem to be having trouble with your reading.

I'll repeat myself: I understand fully what is in the report. When I say "help me understand" I meant help me understand how you are getting your opinions from that article. I understand it, do you?

play dumb again and I'm out...

This isn't about my "opinions"

I showed you a study that had evidence contrary to what you have claimed.
You dodge and evade addressing it, though.
You can read...you know what you said...you see what their study showed..there are differences...are you able to compare and contrast?


If you cannot or will not keep pace with the discussion, perhaps you should excuse yourself from it.

I appreciate any input you may have, but I'm tired of redundant, mundane repetition of the same things over and over as you refuse to address them.
I am not going to try to have an honest discussion with somebody who has no logical point to make, and doesn't stand for anything other than being contrary.

I have already posted the study for you pages ago, if you did not understand then, go back and re-read, and if you still do not understand, then you do not possess the necessary intellect to post here and should go elsewhere, good day.

I thought you were done.

I mistakenly considered you a mature adult who could have an honest discussion.
My error. Won't happen again.

Yeah well you made one mistake after another in this thread.

No not really..the fact that you won't address the study is telling.
The worst mistake I made was taking you for a reasonable adult.
LMAO..I posted a study by epidemiologists, virologists and doctors who work with ebola and linked to it...


You allege to be in "healthcare"....you allege to know more than they do..yet you post mere opinions with no support and then pretend you're debunking "lies".

You fooled me for a few minutes..I see right through you now, though.

Really? So are you done with me again?

 

[percysunshine]

Lie#4

The CDC doesn't know what it's doing.

The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes.

It is correct about Ebola only being transmissible when the patient is symptomatic. That is why the family of the victim doesn't have the virus, and why the people who flew with him over here don't either. The two nurses got infected when he was dying of the disease.

The CDC fucked up royally when they let that woman fly with a 99 degree temp, and they are full of more shit than a backed up septic tank when they say that stopping travel out if infected countries will make the epidemic worse.

But they know the virus better than anyone, and they are correct in the most important respect.

Ok...I am calling bullshit.

You claim that it is a lie that the CDC does not know what it's doing, and yet, in the same post, you claim that they fucked up royally.

Explain this.

.

You didn't read the whole thing did you?

Every word.

.

Well, you missed this part though:

"The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes."

Sooo... if they are total fuck ups half the time, but the smartest guys in the room the other half of the time, this means they know what they are doing?

Not really. It means they are dysfunctional.

We are talking about a 70% mortality rate virus.

.

.

 

[PredFan]

Let me see if I can help you out.

In spite of the endless, overwhelmingly redundant stream of "news" coverage I remain utterly ignorant concerning the way this insidious bug is transmitted.

When the first identified case was announced we were told infection required physical contact with a carrier who is manifesting symptoms. So far I've read and heard about three infected individuals each of whom had relatively limited contact with the carrier. But I haven't heard anything about those who had the most intimate contact with him.

Thomas Duncan spent several days in the same apartment with a woman friend and her two daughters. These people were closely familiar with Duncan and presumably engaged in some level of physical contact (familial hugging and kissing) with him. He slept in that apartment, vomited and toileted in that apartment. His soiled clothing and bedding items remained in that apartment for days and were handled by the occupants. He vomited on a nearby sidewalk and that was cleaned up by a janitor.

Thus far I haven't heard a word about any of those most closely exposed individuals. Is it because the endless bombardment of redundant reportage has caused me to tune out? If so, has anyone else here heard anything about Duncan's host and her daughters?

Where are they? Have they manifested any symptoms? If not, that would suggest some natural immunity. Yet, no mention of them.

Infection does require intimate contact. Not only that but one must be in contact with bodily fluids.

The people who became infected from him had direct intimate contact with him as they were his nurses up until his death.

His family members, as you correctly pointed out, had VERY intimate contact with him but the difference is that it was early in his sickness. As the scientists, and virologists at the CDC point out that the disease becomes more contagious as it progresses. They aren't sick because it was early in his disease. That is why they are correct in saying that you can't get infected by being on an airplane or bus or in the same room as a patient who has it. At least until they are bleeding from everywhere anyway.

It isn't a natural immunity, it's just that the disease isn't infectious until the symptoms show and even then it's not that infectious until the patient is gravely I'll.

Did that help?

 

[PredFan]

Lie#4

The CDC doesn't know what it's doing.

The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes.

It is correct about Ebola only being transmissible when the patient is symptomatic. That is why the family of the victim doesn't have the virus, and why the people who flew with him over here don't either. The two nurses got infected when he was dying of the disease.

The CDC fucked up royally when they let that woman fly with a 99 degree temp, and they are full of more shit than a backed up septic tank when they say that stopping travel out if infected countries will make the epidemic worse.

But they know the virus better than anyone, and they are correct in the most important respect.

Ok...I am calling bullshit.

You claim that it is a lie that the CDC does not know what it's doing, and yet, in the same post, you claim that they fucked up royally.

Explain this.

.

You didn't read the whole thing did you?

Every word.

.

Well, you missed this part though:

"The fact that the statement is too broad is what makes it false. The CDC is correct about some things, but has certainly made mistakes."

Sooo... if they are total fuck ups half the time, but the smartest guys in the room the other half of the time, this means they know what they are doing?

Not really. It means they are dysfunctional.

We are talking about a 70% mortality rate virus.

.

.

If the world exists in absolutes in your mind, you will have a difficult time.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Lie #5:

Stopping travel to and from the affected countries will make the epidemic worse.

If you hear this, know that the person saying it is an idiot. The first rule of fighting an epidemic is containment. When we have people in the hospital with an infectious disease, we put them in isolation. We do not allow them to mingle with the other patient population. In most cases we don't even allow the caregivers to care for any other patient at the same time.

NO ONE is saying stop supplies and medical personnel from going to and from the affected countries. We mean commercial travel. Saying stopping commercial flights from those countries will make it worse is absurd in the extreme. That's like me saying if I don't let my isolation patient walk around the hospital, his infectious disease will get worse. It's nonsense.

The head of the CDC said this. The guy in charge, head honco.

Number one guy in charge of this is an idiot.