CDZ Could using Islam as a political philosophy make trumps ban constitutional?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Would it be the same,though?
In the bible, does it tell you to do things, politically? Like, in Acts, it spoke of things that had happened. Some people interpret it that way(it tells you how to run society), but the Quran is pretty strait forward.

I was thinking the OT in particular.

Yeah, kill your children if they sass you, you know.

Is the old testament a "system"?

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

True.

To be consistent, all religions could be perceived as political ideology.

 

[TNHarley]

No, it would not change the constitutionality of the ban.

please explain

 

[ogibillm]

No, it would not change the constitutionality of the ban.

please explain

islam is a religion. trying to make a claim that it isn't to allow a ban doesn't change that.

 

[TNHarley]

Is the old testament a "system"?

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

not just the ten commandments. there are lots of biblical laws and traditions

Is it a political system, though? Just because some dude says not to kill doesn't make it a political system.
I would hope you would try to explain how..
Islam is an actual political system. From justice, social stances, hygiene, the Salat, etc

 

[TNHarley]

No, it would not change the constitutionality of the ban.

please explain

islam is a religion. trying to make a claim that it isn't to allow a ban doesn't change that.

I didnt say it wasnt a religion, silly.
Islam is ALSO a POLITICAL SYSTEM.
Try again

 

[ogibillm]

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

not just the ten commandments. there are lots of biblical laws and traditions

Is it a political system, though? Just because some dude says not to kill doesn't make it a political system.
I would hope you would try to explain how..
Islam is an actual political system. From justice, social stances, hygiene, the Salat, etc

i would be very, very surprised to find a law in islam that does not have a parallel in judaism.

 

[ogibillm]

No, it would not change the constitutionality of the ban.

please explain

islam is a religion. trying to make a claim that it isn't to allow a ban doesn't change that.

I didnt say it wasnt a religion, silly.
Islam is ALSO a POLITICAL SYSTEM.
Try again

what religion isn't?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I was thinking the OT in particular.

Yeah, kill your children if they sass you, you know.

Is the old testament a "system"?

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

Check out Christian dominionism. Those freaks want to take over South Carolina. Mormon dominionism had Utah until it was wrestled away in the 1880s.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Islam is a political philosophy, legal system, hygiene system etc
Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional? I know people argue the first and it limits the government. Which, I agree with(thanks Jarhead). So what about this?

"Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional?"

What ban?

The unconstitutional one.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You could probably ban Masonry, the Odd Fellows, and the Boy Scouts of America before you could ban Muslims.

 

[TNHarley]

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

not just the ten commandments. there are lots of biblical laws and traditions

Is it a political system, though? Just because some dude says not to kill doesn't make it a political system.
I would hope you would try to explain how..
Islam is an actual political system. From justice, social stances, hygiene, the Salat, etc

i would be very, very surprised to find a law in islam that does not have a parallel in judaism.

Could you try develop a decent argument?
Islam is a political system. Maybe you could point to how the Torah is one?

 

[Syriusly]

Islam is a political philosophy, legal system, hygiene system etc
Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional? I know people argue the first and it limits the government. Which, I agree with(thanks Jarhead). So what about this?

"Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional?"

What ban?

his hypothetical ban

Sigh- specifically what ban are you speaking of? I like specifics rather than vagaries when dealing with Constitutional issues.

Stopping muslim immigration. What other ban for islam did he mention?

Okay- now I know for certain what you are talking about- Trump's call to ban immigration of people based upon their religion- Islam.

What does the Constitution say about religion?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

So the Constitution is clear that Congress cannot pass a law against Muslims within the United States based upon their religion- and the Koran is the basis of their religion as much as the Bible is the basis of Christianity

However would that apply to immigrants and visitors? I don't know for certain.

But- pretending calling Islam something other than a religion when it is a religion is not going to survive any Constitutional challenges.

 

[TNHarley]

Is the old testament a "system"?

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

Check out Christian dominionism. Those freaks want to take over South Carolina. Mormon dominionism had Utah until it was wrestled away in the 1880s.

That is just certain interpretations, though.
Do you see what I am getting at here, Jake?
Islam is a strict political system. No matter how it is interpreted. It is plain as day. Read the Salat. It even involves what the "govt" should do with peoples personal property.

 

[Syriusly]

I was thinking the OT in particular.

Yeah, kill your children if they sass you, you know.

Is the old testament a "system"?

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

Arguably yes. Though like I said previously- it doesn't matter. You can call Islam whatever you want but it still remains a religion. It is like arguing that a quarter horse is also a draft animal, so quarter horses don't fall under laws governing horses.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

 

[ogibillm]

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

not just the ten commandments. there are lots of biblical laws and traditions

Is it a political system, though? Just because some dude says not to kill doesn't make it a political system.
I would hope you would try to explain how..
Islam is an actual political system. From justice, social stances, hygiene, the Salat, etc

i would be very, very surprised to find a law in islam that does not have a parallel in judaism.

Could you try develop a decent argument?
Islam is a political system. Maybe you could point to how the Torah is one?

in every single way that islam is a political system so is judaism.

does that help?

 

[TNHarley]

Islam is a political philosophy, legal system, hygiene system etc
Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional? I know people argue the first and it limits the government. Which, I agree with(thanks Jarhead). So what about this?

"Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional?"

What ban?

his hypothetical ban

Sigh- specifically what ban are you speaking of? I like specifics rather than vagaries when dealing with Constitutional issues.

Stopping muslim immigration. What other ban for islam did he mention?

Okay- now I know for certain what you are talking about- Trump's call to ban immigration of people based upon their religion- Islam.

What does the Constitution say about religion?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

So the Constitution is clear that Congress cannot pass a law against Muslims within the United States based upon their religion- and the Koran is the basis of their religion as much as the Bible is the basis of Christianity

However would that apply to immigrants and visitors? I don't know for certain.

But- pretending calling Islam something other than a religion when it is a religion is not going to survive any Constitutional challenges.

It is KNOWN to everyone that Islam is also a political system/philosophy.

 

[ogibillm]

"Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional?"

What ban?

his hypothetical ban

Sigh- specifically what ban are you speaking of? I like specifics rather than vagaries when dealing with Constitutional issues.

Stopping muslim immigration. What other ban for islam did he mention?

Okay- now I know for certain what you are talking about- Trump's call to ban immigration of people based upon their religion- Islam.

What does the Constitution say about religion?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

So the Constitution is clear that Congress cannot pass a law against Muslims within the United States based upon their religion- and the Koran is the basis of their religion as much as the Bible is the basis of Christianity

However would that apply to immigrants and visitors? I don't know for certain.

But- pretending calling Islam something other than a religion when it is a religion is not going to survive any Constitutional challenges.

It is KNOWN to everyone that Islam is also a political system/philosophy.

according to you

 

[TNHarley]

Quran and Politics Archives - The Quranic Teachings - Simple and Straightforward!

Is the old testament a "system"?

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

Arguably yes. Though like I said previously- it doesn't matter. You can call Islam whatever you want but it still remains a religion. It is like arguing that a quarter horse is also a draft animal, so quarter horses don't fall under laws governing horses.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 “You shall not murder.
7 “You shall not commit adultery.
8 “You shall not steal.
9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

One could possibly set up a decent argument on number 4 and 10. That's it.
I still am wondering how that makes it a political system.

 

[Syriusly]

"Could that be used to make Trumps ban constitutional?"

What ban?

his hypothetical ban

Sigh- specifically what ban are you speaking of? I like specifics rather than vagaries when dealing with Constitutional issues.

Stopping muslim immigration. What other ban for islam did he mention?

Okay- now I know for certain what you are talking about- Trump's call to ban immigration of people based upon their religion- Islam.

What does the Constitution say about religion?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

So the Constitution is clear that Congress cannot pass a law against Muslims within the United States based upon their religion- and the Koran is the basis of their religion as much as the Bible is the basis of Christianity

However would that apply to immigrants and visitors? I don't know for certain.

But- pretending calling Islam something other than a religion when it is a religion is not going to survive any Constitutional challenges.

It is KNOWN to everyone that Islam is also a political system/philosophy.

It is KNOWN to everyone that Islam is a religion.

And what is expressly protected in the U.S. Constitution?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

 

[JakeStarkey]

Certainly, you try being a hippie rocker in Jerusalem of the 2d century.

I am not discussing how people interpreted it, silly.
I am asking if the old t is a political system like Islam is.

Sure it is.

Look at the 10 Commandments.

Hell there are Christians to this day that insist that our legal and political system should be based upon the 10 Commandments.

A
I am not talking about "insisting"
The ten commandments is a political system? Really?

not just the ten commandments. there are lots of biblical laws and traditions

Is it a political system, though? Just because some dude says not to kill doesn't make it a political system.
I would hope you would try to explain how..
Islam is an actual political system. From justice, social stances, hygiene, the Salat, etc

Are you saying that Puritan England under Cromwell was not a religious dictatorship? Or Puritan New England that hanged Quakers and witches? Or Mormons that ruled Utah? The Puritans executed a boy for buggering a sheep using the OT as the law to follow.