Could Iran "Win" in the Straight of Hormuz?

[Staidhup]

The game would be over just after it started. No, unless of course your plain stupid which considering the current leadership of Iran is not that far fetched.

 

[georgephillip]

Our weapons are far superior than anything the Iranians have.
It will be short .

It will be very short for us, but the effects will linger for Iranians.

What is the motive for US/Israeli provocations in Iran?

"Robert Baer, the long-time senior CIA officer who spent 21 years working the Middle East, was on MSNBC's 'Hardball' this evening saying that Israel is assassinating Iranian scientists in an attempt to provoke Iran to fight back and draw the US into a full-scale war.

The day after a young Iranian scientist was assassinated, US President Barack Obama and Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke by phone Thursday, January 12, 2012.

"The White House said Obama 'reiterated his unshakable commitment to Israel’s security.' (AFP/Menahem Kahana) Earlier today, Baer made the same case to the Guardian/UK:

"Baer argues that the impact on the nuclear program itself is likely to be so minimal, it is unlikely to be the aim of the murder campaign.

"'It's a provocation,' he says. 'My theory is that Israel couldn't get the White House to agree to bombing. It is not satisfied with sanctions, so the Israelis are trying to provoke the Iranians into launching a missile and starting a war.'"

War Clouds Darken: Russia Warns of US Strike on Iran | Common Dreams

 

[Uncensored2008]

Seriously, the demographics of 1948 Palestine are neither irrelevant nor distracting from the crimes committed by the founding of the state of Israel. 711,000 non-Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes at the point of a Jewish bayonet.

They didn't "flee," you fucking Nazi. They made a tactical withdrawal based on the plan by the Arab League to invade and slaughter every last Jew.

You and Moses obviously have no problem with that.
Civilized human beings do.

You call genocide "civilized," you Nazi fuck?

The Arab armies you mention took defensive positions around the portions of Palestine slated for Arab control. Had those armies not intervened, the Jews would have reached the Jordan River a generation before they eventually did.

What were they "defending" you Nazi cocksucker?

They invaded Israel with the STATED aim of slaughtering every last Jew and driving them into the sea.

{The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. On the day that Israel declared its independence, the Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared "jihad", a holy war. He said, "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".1 The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini stated, "I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!" 2 The armies of lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it.3}

The Arab Invasion 1948

Israel has every right to defend itself and no right to steal the land, water, and freedom of her neighbors.
But you already knew that, right?

Israel didn't "steal" anything. They just refused to lay down and die, like you want them to. You want them to march into the ovens without complaint, and are angry that they refused.

 

[Katzndogz]

Obviously, most of the posters here dont have a freaking clue of the awesome capabilities of a US Naval Carrier Task force. It would shut down Irans naval forces within hours and then call in the Air force to slam the Irainian infrastrucure and command and control capabilites. It would be boom pow pow, all over. Even with barry in charge it would be easy.

You are missing part of what's necessary. First there would have to be the Will to issue to the Order to act. That's what's missing. obama would rather the entire task force was at the bottom of the sea.

I hate to point out the obvious but the sailors involved don't give a rats ass what Obama wants. They have a desire to live so they will. Any hostile action against them will be met by overwhelming firepower. This is the real world, people like their lives so will act accordingly.

Due to as many unnecessary deaths as we have had since obama changed the Rules of Engagement, I must disagree with you. While I would adore seeing this kind of rebellion in the ranks, I doubt it would happen.

 

[georgephillip]

Seriously, the demographics of 1948 Palestine are neither irrelevant nor distracting from the crimes committed by the founding of the state of Israel. 711,000 non-Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes at the point of a Jewish bayonet.

They didn't "flee," you fucking Nazi. They made a tactical withdrawal based on the plan by the Arab League to invade and slaughter every last Jew.

You and Moses obviously have no problem with that.
Civilized human beings do.

You call genocide "civilized," you Nazi fuck?

The Arab armies you mention took defensive positions around the portions of Palestine slated for Arab control. Had those armies not intervened, the Jews would have reached the Jordan River a generation before they eventually did.

What were they "defending" you Nazi cocksucker?

They invaded Israel with the STATED aim of slaughtering every last Jew and driving them into the sea.

{The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. On the day that Israel declared its independence, the Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared "jihad", a holy war. He said, "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".1 The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini stated, "I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!" 2 The armies of lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it.3}

The Arab Invasion 1948

Israel has every right to defend itself and no right to steal the land, water, and freedom of her neighbors.
But you already knew that, right?

Israel didn't "steal" anything. They just refused to lay down and die, like you want them to. You want them to march into the ovens without complaint, and are angry that they refused.

All of the 711,000 Arabs who were expelled by heroic Jews were part of a "tactical withdrawal based on the plan by the Arab League" organized on Facebook, right, Golda?

It was the Jews, comprising one-third of the population of 1948 Palestine who imposed a Jewish state on their neighbors. The world is still paying for that crime today in places like the Hormuz Straits.

The fact that you were apparently indoctrinated at a young age into a slave religion doesn't change Sir Ronald Storrs's 1922 proclamation that Israel would form for England a little, loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab hostilism.

Tens of thousands of Muslims have died since that time from Area C to Gaza in order for "the chosen people" to relive their ethnic cleansing of Canaan.

Slaves like you are a stain on humanity.

 

[yidnar]

Long term the answer is obviously no; however, that doesn't mean Iran could not prevail long enough to kill 20,000 US servicemen and women according to a 2002 Pentagon simulation:

From GlobalResearch:

"Even the Pentagon’s own war simulations have shown that a war in the Persian Gulf with Iran would spell (initial) disaster for the United States and its military.

"One key example is the Millennium Challenge 2002 (MC02) war game in the Persian Gulf, which was conducted from July 24, 2002 to August 15, 2002 and took almost two years to prepare...

"Millennium Challenge 2002 was held shortly after the Pentagon had decided that it would continue the momentum of the war in Afghanistan by targeting Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, and finishing off with the big prize of Iran in a broad military campaign to ensure U.S. primacy in the new millennium..."

"The scenario in the 2002 war game started with the U.S., codenamed 'Blue,' giving Iran a one-day ultimatum to surrender in the year 2007.

"The war game’s date of 2007 would chronologically correspond to U.S. plans to attack Iran after the Israeli attack on Lebanon in 2006, which was to extend, according to military plans, into a broader war against Syria.

"The war against Lebanon, however, did not go as planned and the U.S. and Israel realized that if Hezbollah could challenge them in Lebanon then an expanded war with Syria and Iran would be a disaster.

"In Millennium Challenge 2002’s war scenario, Iran would react to U.S. aggression by launching a massive barrage of missiles that would overwhelm the U.S. and destroy sixteen U.S. naval vessels – an aircraft carrier, ten cruisers, and five amphibious ships.

"It is estimated that if this had happened in real war theatre context, more than 20,000 U.S. servicemen would have been killed in the first day following the attack. [6]"

The Geo-Politics of the Strait of Hormuz: Could the U.S. Navy be defeated by Iran in the Persian Gulf?

20,000 US servicemen and women dead in the first 24 hours followed by 200,000 -2,000,000 Muslim civilians killed in revenge within weeks (days?) Does anyone seriously believe scenarios like Millennium Challenge would be conceived if war was not a racket?

under my administration [Obama] energy costs would skyrocket !!

 

[Uncensored2008]

All of the 711,000 Arabs who were expelled by heroic Jews were part of a "tactical withdrawal based on the plan by the Arab League" organized on Facebook, right, Golda?

Yes, Nazi boi. The Mufti ordered, via Fatwa, all Muslims to leave Israel in advance of the "Jihad" to slaughter the Jews. They organized in the Mosques, just as they do now.

It was the Jews, comprising one-third of the population of 1948 Palestine who imposed a Jewish state on their neighbors. The world is still paying for that crime today in places like the Hormuz Straits.

No, the established a Jewish state for themselves. A tiny spec of civilization among the Muslim states.

For that, you seek to murder them all.

The fact that you were apparently indoctrinated at a young age into a slave religion doesn't change Sir Ronald Storrs's 1922 proclamation that Israel would form for England a little, loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab hostilism.

Tens of thousands of Muslims have died since that time from Area C to Gaza in order for "the chosen people" to relive their ethnic cleansing of Canaan.

Slaves like you are a stain on humanity.

I'm an agnostic. I go with the facts. I take it you are a Muslim, right? You are promoting Islamic Supremest bloodletting. You won't suffer an infidel to have dominion over one grain of sand in what you deem "Muslim lands."

 

[westwall]

You are missing part of what's necessary. First there would have to be the Will to issue to the Order to act. That's what's missing. obama would rather the entire task force was at the bottom of the sea.

I hate to point out the obvious but the sailors involved don't give a rats ass what Obama wants. They have a desire to live so they will. Any hostile action against them will be met by overwhelming firepower. This is the real world, people like their lives so will act accordingly.

Due to as many unnecessary deaths as we have had since obama changed the Rules of Engagement, I must disagree with you. While I would adore seeing this kind of rebellion in the ranks, I doubt it would happen.

While i agree with you that the ROE are ridiculous there is a HUGE difference between those and allowing a multi billion dollar vessel to be sunk. Naval Captains have a vested interest in keeping their ships afloat.

 

[georgephillip]

All of the 711,000 Arabs who were expelled by heroic Jews were part of a "tactical withdrawal based on the plan by the Arab League" organized on Facebook, right, Golda?

Yes, Nazi boi. The Mufti ordered, via Fatwa, all Muslims to leave Israel in advance of the "Jihad" to slaughter the Jews. They organized in the Mosques, just as they do now.

It was the Jews, comprising one-third of the population of 1948 Palestine who imposed a Jewish state on their neighbors. The world is still paying for that crime today in places like the Hormuz Straits.

No, the established a Jewish state for themselves. A tiny spec of civilization among the Muslim states.

For that, you seek to murder them all.

The fact that you were apparently indoctrinated at a young age into a slave religion doesn't change Sir Ronald Storrs's 1922 proclamation that Israel would form for England a little, loyal Jewish Ulster in the heart of Arab hostilism.

Tens of thousands of Muslims have died since that time from Area C to Gaza in order for "the chosen people" to relive their ethnic cleansing of Canaan.

Slaves like you are a stain on humanity.

I'm an agnostic. I go with the facts. I take it you are a Muslim, right? You are promoting Islamic Supremest bloodletting. You won't suffer an infidel to have dominion over one grain of sand in what you deem "Muslim lands."

We're both agnostics.

The fact you seem incapable of realizing was summarized in 1922 by the first British Military Governor of Jerusalem.

The Jewish state of Israel was created as an imperial outpost in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism. At the end of WWII the US took over for Britain;however, that didn't change the role of Israel.

Your "tiny spec of civilization" has always served the interests of Empire, Roman, British and now the US. Since 1967 Israel's primary job has been to buy massive amounts of US arms (paid for by US taxpayers) then use those weapons to destabilize surrounding Arab states.

If the choice was mine I would stop subsidizing all tyrants in the Middle East including Israel.

 

[georgephillip]

"FoxNews Latino reports on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's visit to Cuba on Wednesday on the third leg of a four country Latin America tour.

"At the university, the Iranian leader railed against the United States and its allies and said heartless capitalism is the root cause of war.

"'Thankfully we are already witnessing that the capitalist system is in decay,' Ahmadinejad said. 'On various stages it has come to a dead end — politically, economically and culturally.'

"'You see that when it lacks logic, they turn to weapons to kill and destroy,' he added."

War Clouds Darken: Russia Warns of US Strike on Iran | Common Dreams

 

[Uncensored2008]

We're both agnostics.

So your desire for genocide is driven by your hatred of America and the belief that destroying Israel will strategically damage the USA?

The fact you seem incapable of realizing was summarized in 1922 by the first British Military Governor of Jerusalem.

The Jewish state of Israel was created as an imperial outpost in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism. At the end of WWII the US took over for Britain;however, that didn't change the role of Israel.

Things changed between 1922 and 1948. A little war realigned the pieces. The Arabs backed the losing side.

Your "tiny spec of civilization" has always served the interests of Empire, Roman, British and now the US. Since 1967 Israel's primary job has been to buy massive amounts of US arms (paid for by US taxpayers) then use those weapons to destabilize surrounding Arab states.

Good.

Unlike you, I support America.

If the choice was mine I would stop subsidizing all tyrants in the Middle East including Israel.

If the choice were yours, you'd march the Jews into gas chambers.

But the choice isn't yours.

 

[Firehorse]

The Iranians would hold a slight advantage very early on in a conflict. It is a Strait and as such a man on a beach could launch a missile at a passing ship. The Ship would have a very limited reaction time to the incoming missile, but i believe (and i may be incorrect) that the range of our point blank anti-missile guns that shoot down incoming projectiles is about 1/4 mile. One or even ten such missiles should be dealt with by the system in an extremely short period of time. But what if Iran launched a hundred such missles?

The system would be overloaded and some missiles would impact, but we are talking (reletively speaking) small missiles with limited warheads. To a lone FG or Destroyer, this could mean significant damage and fire that could result in the loss of the ship. But remember we are taking about the smaller escort sized ships. Such an attack on a CV or CR would do minor damage (unless a few of the missiles hit aircraft on the deck which would mean a more extensive fire danger)

In any even, this would almost have to be a suprise attack by the Iranians as the US would move the Carrier through the straits at all ... Naval Aircraft are AIRCRAFT after all and have extensive range. If such an attack happened, we would land Mariens on both sides of the Strait and secure it for passage.

Mines are about the only way that the Iranians can effectively "shut down" the strait

 

[KissMy]

Screw Iran - New Pipeline Avoids Strait of Hormuz

The United Arab Emirates has nearly completed an oil export pipeline from Abu Dhabi, on the Gulf, to the Gulf of Oman, bypassing the Strait of Hormuz, Mohamed bin Dhaen al-Hamli, the U.A.E.’s oil minister, said this week.

There is no way in hell they can inflict even close to that many deaths upon our Navy. They will go through pure hell for even trying.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The Iranians would hold a slight advantage very early on in a conflict. It is a Strait and as such a man on a beach could launch a missile at a passing ship. The Ship would have a very limited reaction time to the incoming missile, but i believe (and i may be incorrect) that the range of our point blank anti-missile guns that shoot down incoming projectiles is about 1/4 mile. One or even ten such missiles should be dealt with by the system in an extremely short period of time. But what if Iran launched a hundred such missles?

The system would be overloaded and some missiles would impact, but we are talking (reletively speaking) small missiles with limited warheads. To a lone FG or Destroyer, this could mean significant damage and fire that could result in the loss of the ship. But remember we are taking about the smaller escort sized ships. Such an attack on a CV or CR would do minor damage (unless a few of the missiles hit aircraft on the deck which would mean a more extensive fire danger)

In any even, this would almost have to be a suprise attack by the Iranians as the US would move the Carrier through the straits at all ... Naval Aircraft are AIRCRAFT after all and have extensive range. If such an attack happened, we would land Mariens on both sides of the Strait and secure it for passage.

Mines are about the only way that the Iranians can effectively "shut down" the strait

Carrier task force can sit back hundreds of miles and control everything that happens in the straits.... Iran hasn't a prayer..........

 

[Unkotare]

The Iranians would hold a slight advantage very early on in a conflict. It is a Strait and as such a man on a beach could launch a missile at a passing ship.

Our kiling a man on a beach would be the least of the Mullah's concern. It would be the rain of hell falling on Tehran that they would need to calculate before doing anything so stupid.

 

[georgephillip]

We're both agnostics.

So your desire for genocide is driven by your hatred of America and the belief that destroying Israel will strategically damage the USA?

The fact you seem incapable of realizing was summarized in 1922 by the first British Military Governor of Jerusalem.

The Jewish state of Israel was created as an imperial outpost in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism. At the end of WWII the US took over for Britain;however, that didn't change the role of Israel.

Things changed between 1922 and 1948. A little war realigned the pieces. The Arabs backed the losing side.

Your "tiny spec of civilization" has always served the interests of Empire, Roman, British and now the US. Since 1967 Israel's primary job has been to buy massive amounts of US arms (paid for by US taxpayers) then use those weapons to destabilize surrounding Arab states.

Good.

Unlike you, I support America.

If the choice was mine I would stop subsidizing all tyrants in the Middle East including Israel.

If the choice were yours, you'd march the Jews into gas chambers.

But the choice isn't yours.

Palestine backed the winning side in your "little war," unlike some Zionists like Yitzhak Shamir.

"Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler.

"By 1940-41, the 'Stern Gang,' among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the “Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany.'

"Avraham Stern and his followers announced that

“'The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:

"'1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO."

What do you call a Jew who would propose an alliance with the Third Reich in order to hasten the British departure from Palestine, self-hating?

Your choice, along with that of your fellow authoritarians like Hitler and Shamir, is always genocide first and blame the victims later.

51 Documents » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[Uncensored2008]

Palestine backed the winning side in your "little war," unlike some Zionists like Yitzhak Shamir.

Lying won't help your case, regardless of what your Mullahs tell you.

"Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler.

"By 1940-41, the 'Stern Gang,' among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the “Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany.'

"Avraham Stern and his followers announced that

“'The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:

"'1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO."

What do you call a Jew who would propose an alliance with the Third Reich in order to hasten the British departure from Palestine, self-hating?

Your choice, along with that of your fellow authoritarians like Hitler and Shamir, is always genocide first and blame the victims later.

51 Documents » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

As usual, you're lying and using Nazi propaganda.

{Some writers have stated that Lehi's true goals were the creation of a totalitarian state.[22] Perlinger and Weinberg write that the organisation's ideology placed "its world view in the quasi-fascist radical Right, which is characterised by xenophobia, a national egotism that completely subordinates the individual to the needs of the nation, anti-liberalism, total denial of democracy and a highly centralised government."[23] Perliger and Weinberg state that most Lehi members were admirers of the Italian Fascist movement.[13]

Others counter these claims. They note that when Lehi founder Avraham Stern went to study in fascist Italy, he refused to join the "Gruppo Universitario Fascista" for foreign students, even though members got large reductions in tuition.[24] Also, as a teenager in the Soviet Union, Stern was a member of the Young Pioneers, the children's branch of the Communist Party.[25] While organizing for Irgun in Poland in the 1930s, Stern started a labor union organization (Histadrut) for the Tzofim Hashomer Hatzair in Suwałki, which followed the ideology of the socialist movement Hashomer Hatzair, and the youth organizations Hatzofim and Hechalutz.[26] Supporting theories of Stern's progressive leanings is his comment that "We... want to establish the Kingdom of Israel and to rebuild it on the eternal foundations of Fraternity, Respect and Friendship to all the nation's sons whoever they are."[27]}

Lehi (group) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "Protocols of Zion" bullshit you're posting was debunked 30 years ago. You merely reveals what a sack of shit you are by dredging up this kind of racist idiocy.

 

[westwall]

The Iranians would hold a slight advantage very early on in a conflict. It is a Strait and as such a man on a beach could launch a missile at a passing ship. The Ship would have a very limited reaction time to the incoming missile, but i believe (and i may be incorrect) that the range of our point blank anti-missile guns that shoot down incoming projectiles is about 1/4 mile. One or even ten such missiles should be dealt with by the system in an extremely short period of time. But what if Iran launched a hundred such missles?

The system would be overloaded and some missiles would impact, but we are talking (reletively speaking) small missiles with limited warheads. To a lone FG or Destroyer, this could mean significant damage and fire that could result in the loss of the ship. But remember we are taking about the smaller escort sized ships. Such an attack on a CV or CR would do minor damage (unless a few of the missiles hit aircraft on the deck which would mean a more extensive fire danger)

In any even, this would almost have to be a suprise attack by the Iranians as the US would move the Carrier through the straits at all ... Naval Aircraft are AIRCRAFT after all and have extensive range. If such an attack happened, we would land Mariens on both sides of the Strait and secure it for passage.

Mines are about the only way that the Iranians can effectively "shut down" the strait

RPG-7's (which I assume are what you're talking about, and the only "missile" that the Iranians have in the numbers you would need to swamp the CIWS) have a maximum range of 920 meters, then they self destruct. Mines are indeed a worry, the only true worry we have. But, even in that arena, there has been extensive technological advancement and we now have effective countermeasures. Which we didn't have ten years ago.

 

[georgephillip]

Palestine backed the winning side in your "little war," unlike some Zionists like Yitzhak Shamir.

Lying won't help your case, regardless of what your Mullahs tell you.

"Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler.

"By 1940-41, the 'Stern Gang,' among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the “Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany.'

"Avraham Stern and his followers announced that

“'The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:

"'1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO."

What do you call a Jew who would propose an alliance with the Third Reich in order to hasten the British departure from Palestine, self-hating?

Your choice, along with that of your fellow authoritarians like Hitler and Shamir, is always genocide first and blame the victims later.

51 Documents » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

As usual, you're lying and using Nazi propaganda.

{Some writers have stated that Lehi's true goals were the creation of a totalitarian state.[22] Perlinger and Weinberg write that the organisation's ideology placed "its world view in the quasi-fascist radical Right, which is characterised by xenophobia, a national egotism that completely subordinates the individual to the needs of the nation, anti-liberalism, total denial of democracy and a highly centralised government."[23] Perliger and Weinberg state that most Lehi members were admirers of the Italian Fascist movement.[13]

Others counter these claims. They note that when Lehi founder Avraham Stern went to study in fascist Italy, he refused to join the "Gruppo Universitario Fascista" for foreign students, even though members got large reductions in tuition.[24] Also, as a teenager in the Soviet Union, Stern was a member of the Young Pioneers, the children's branch of the Communist Party.[25] While organizing for Irgun in Poland in the 1930s, Stern started a labor union organization (Histadrut) for the Tzofim Hashomer Hatzair in Suwałki, which followed the ideology of the socialist movement Hashomer Hatzair, and the youth organizations Hatzofim and Hechalutz.[26] Supporting theories of Stern's progressive leanings is his comment that "We... want to establish the Kingdom of Israel and to rebuild it on the eternal foundations of Fraternity, Respect and Friendship to all the nation's sons whoever they are."[27]}

Lehi (group) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "Protocols of Zion" bullshit you're posting was debunked 30 years ago. You merely reveals what a sack of shit you are by dredging up this kind of racist idiocy.

Brenner's work bears no relation to the Protocols of Zion" and it hasn't been debunked by anyone not associated with AIPAC.

Authoritarians like Stern and Hitler and Shamir were racist liars who concealed their fascist intent with appeals to progressive ideals like "Fraternity, Respect, and Friendship." You'll note (and no doubt ignore) Stern's quote from Wiki reveals the racist bedrock of Israel: while Arabs can earn citizenship in the state of Israel, nationality is reserved solely for Jews, regardless of where they were born.

Nationality always trumps citizenship in the Jewish state.
Shit like you couldn't care less.

 

[Jos]

SS-N-22 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia