Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Mac1958]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

 

[Correll]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

 

[Mac1958]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

 

[Correll]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

 

[Mac1958]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

 

[dblack]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

 

[iceberg]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

not sure they sold themselves on lies. most people i know who voted trump were against hillary more than for trump.

pretty sure the liberal crowds could be found guilty of the same things. that they can "fix it quick" and everyone should love their own lifestyle and adapt quickly.

that's human nature, not left or right.

 

[Mac1958]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, they've all been expanding in influence over time, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

not sure they sold themselves on lies. most people i know who voted trump were against hillary more than for trump.

pretty sure the liberal crowds could be found guilty of the same things. that they can "fix it quick" and everyone should love their own lifestyle and adapt quickly.

that's human nature, not left or right.

Please see post 48.
.

 

[Correll]

We don't have that kind of time. The Left's use of Third World immigration to turn the US into a defacto, One Party, Third World shit hole is barreling at US like a freight train on crack. We have to radically change people's perceptions with results, NOW, or we will be shut out of every having a chance to try again.

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

 

[Mac1958]

I know that's the philosophy - "this can ONLY be done NOW, right NOW" - but the Left could have said the same thing back in the 80's. Instead, they remained consistent and patient and ingrained their message into our very CULTURE.

If there's one thing the GOP can do - and frankly, I think it's too late at this point - it is to stop ignoring (and even mocking) the massive upcoming demographic shift and embrace it.

I know, the GOP doesn't want to play the Identity Politics game, and I sure as hell can't blame you. But if you don't come up with a way to attract minorities, then just punt. And as I mentioned in the OP, this ain't about the unemployment rate or the stock market. This is much DEEPER than that. This is PERSONAL. The GOP has to figure THAT out, TOO.
.

I don't see why you cite the 80s as an example of the Left not responding the same way.


They were not facing the same situation, at all.




The only possible way I can see breaking the Left's lock on minority voters, is by bringing jobs back at such a rate that middle class whites and minorities note the improvement in their lives, and both shift dramatically to the RIght.


This is unlikely to work, but it is the only possible chance.


We could try to beat the democrats at their own games of handing out money and racial demagoguery, but we will fail and do terrible harm to the nation in the process.

That's mistake #2 I mention above, assuming that your top priorities (economy, jobs) are their top priorities.

I'm telling you, it isn't. And they know that you don't know that, and that only makes things even worse.
.

I'm NOT assuming that. We just don't have any better tools to work with.


We can't outshout them to get our message across, the left owns the media and pop culture.


Hell, they are starting to censor the internet.


We can't out bribe them. The government is broke and we know it. We can't compete with the Left when it comes to spending money we don't have. We just can't.


If we try to out pander them by offering to discriminate more against whites, we A. will still fail to win minority votes and will B. lose white votes, and C. immediately marginalize the majority of the nation from the political process.

Do you feel it's over, then?

The country is turning browner as we speak, so it's either do something or punt.

Which is it?
.

We've done/or are doing pretty much all we can.


What are you going to do about it?

After all, this is a problem coming from the Left, I'm on the outside, unable to even get a listen from 99.999 per cent of you guys.


If America is going to avoid a meltdown, maybe the answer can only come from your side.

If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.

I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
.

 

[dblack]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

 

[Mac1958]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
.

 

[dblack]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
.

The GOP is a wasteland. My point is that Republicans are in office right now because Democrats didn't practice what you're preaching. They took shortcuts and now we're paying for it.

 

[rich stacy]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Liberals are ruining the country, running it into the ground. We're just trying to fasten the suspenders before our pants fall down.

 

[Mac1958]

The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
.

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
.

The GOP is a wasteland. My point is that Republicans are in office right now because Democrats didn't practice what you're preaching. They took shortcuts and now we're paying for it.

Sure, PC and Identity Politics are intellectually dishonest, cowardly, counter-productive and incredibly cynical. But they sure have been effective. So here we are, and the GOP is pretty much out of time to do anything about it.

I think they could have, but they wanted to stick to their "principles". Okay, that's their call. As I said, here we are.
.

 

[dblack]

I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
.

The GOP is a wasteland. My point is that Republicans are in office right now because Democrats didn't practice what you're preaching. They took shortcuts and now we're paying for it.

Sure, PC and Identity Politics are intellectually dishonest, cowardly, counter-productive and incredibly cynical. But they sure have been effective. So here we are, and the GOP is pretty much out of time to do anything about it.

I think they could have, but they wanted to stick to their "principles". Okay, that's their call. As I said, here we are.
.

???

 

[Mac1958]

Look at our massive cultural changes, including entertainment, social mores, PC, Identity Politics. None of that happened overnight, and the GOP is on the opposite side of all of them. This isn't economic or political, it's cultural. This has been brewing for at least two generations now, and the scale is about to tip.

The GOP can choose to do nothing about it. It can choose to ignore the priorities of this massive wave. That's up to them.
.

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
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The GOP is a wasteland. My point is that Republicans are in office right now because Democrats didn't practice what you're preaching. They took shortcuts and now we're paying for it.

Sure, PC and Identity Politics are intellectually dishonest, cowardly, counter-productive and incredibly cynical. But they sure have been effective. So here we are, and the GOP is pretty much out of time to do anything about it.

I think they could have, but they wanted to stick to their "principles". Okay, that's their call. As I said, here we are.
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???

Not sure what you don't get.

I've said all along - Demographics are in the process of dramatically changing, and the GOP is completely ignoring that fact.

If you disagree, if you think the party is cruising along in no danger, then we definitely disagree.
.

 

[impuretrash]

The GOP can choose to not make government an agent of that change. That's what you're glossing over. It's not 'just' a cultural movement - it is political and people are all too willing to use government, via laws, to push their favored social changes. But using government to drive social change like that is "cheating". The short term acceleration of some desired change is almost always accompanied by resentment and blowback. As you said, it's better to actually persuade people than force them into change - and if you can't persuade them, admit that society isn't ready for the change you're after.

I understand that, seriously. But isn't this battle tough enough, without tying your own hands?

The GOP is not going to reach new voters with the ways it's doing things, and I don't care what the economy is like or where the stock market is. If it wants to stick to its principles and hope that it will attract people that way, well, good luck on that one.

In other words, I don't see the GOP trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than each other.
.

The GOP is a wasteland. My point is that Republicans are in office right now because Democrats didn't practice what you're preaching. They took shortcuts and now we're paying for it.

Sure, PC and Identity Politics are intellectually dishonest, cowardly, counter-productive and incredibly cynical. But they sure have been effective. So here we are, and the GOP is pretty much out of time to do anything about it.

I think they could have, but they wanted to stick to their "principles". Okay, that's their call. As I said, here we are.
.

???

Not sure what you don't get.

I've said all along - Demographics are in the process of dramatically changing, and the GOP is completely ignoring that fact.

If you disagree, if you think the party is cruising along in no danger, then we definitely disagree.
.

Why don't you just say what you think the GOP should do in response to these demographic changes instead of beating around the bush.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?

R's just joined in full side saddle with the dems. It's a glorious joining of love between the two. These are the wretches that the founders warned about.