Concealed Carry Permit Holder Saves The Day

[Diuretic]

Well, since the COPS think he may have saved lives, I suggest you are full of SHIT as usual. You were not there and have no idea what was going on or what prompted the patron to pull his weapon. The COPS happen to know who the criminal was and agree that the shooting probably saved lives. So much for YOUR bullshit.

And when you bring up gun laws one MUST talk about crime, since the entire PREMISE of doing away with firearms is to LOWER crime rates, when in fact it does JUST the opposite. It encourages all kind of crimes that would not generally occur in the numbers that happen after gun control for the very reason that the criminals now know they are safe from being shot or threatened with a shooting.

The Miami cops are mouthing crap. Now let me put this to you. If the idiot had been killed and the robber had shot six innocent people because he'd been attacked by the idiot, do you think the Miami PD would be praising him? I'll wait for you to work on that one.



Do you read anything here? In your fevered mind that agument exists. Time and time again I have made the point that firearms control is not connected with crime control but there you go inventing a position yet again.

Now, I'll type this slowly.

Firearms control is not about crime control.
It's about harm minimisation from the lawful use of firearms.
Got it?

got it, don't agree with it but got it

...

Don't agree? No problemo, that's what makes the forum interesting.

 

[Diuretic]

Go fuck yourself idiot. Even the police spokesman said he may have saved lives.

You're as dumb as snot and less attractive. Go play with your Dorthy and Toto dolls and shut the fuck up about our country.

Derogatory language like this only goes to prove that you have lost the argument...miserably.

Want to go tell my mommy I said some bad words too?

It's a political chat board, foul language is just one way of coping when you're talking to a complete fucking idiot.

It happens, get over it ... or go tell it to shogun, I don't care.

It's a political chat board, foul language is just one way of coping when you're talking to a complete fucking idiot.

You have an emotional control problem - you shouldn't post on forums if you're going to fly into a tantrum every time you read a point that you disagree with. It's not healthy, all that adrenaline is building up in you.

 

[Otter_Creek]

(including basic firearms safety and competent use training)

The citizen had a permit, you have to have proof of gun competence training to get one.
doo doo head. is that better?

 

[Burp]

(including basic firearms safety and competent use training)

The citizen had a permit, you have to have proof of gun competence training to get one.
doo doo head. is that better?

Here you have to have an 8 hours class - 3 of it on the range. Very intensive. Gun law, tearing down the gun and cleaning. Different between calibers. How to store, handle, aim, etc.

Then the range is shooting from different distances (3 feet, 21 feet, 45 feet). After hours of practice you now have to prove proficiency and obtain a passing score.

Then you apply to the state. Finger prints. Three background checks. Takes approximately 90 days to get your permit.

Pretty thorough I would say.

(have to laugh...called you doo doo head. Now that is funny)

 

[Diuretic]

(including basic firearms safety and competent use training)

The citizen had a permit, you have to have proof of gun competence training to get one.
doo doo head. is that better?

The citizen had a permit. He shouldn't have one now

I mean the bloke acted like an idiot. For some reason, tombstone courage, panic, blind temper, who knows, he pulled his gun and endangered every single person within range of his firearms and that of the crook. It was an extremely intemperate thing to do.

The accolades for him are because he managed to kill the robber. If he had been killed or if the robber had shot innocent people because he had been challenged the accolades would be muted.

Now I know that's hypothetical but it's not an unreasonable objection.

The appropriateness of his actions need to be properly appreciated. This time it worked out, the next time a ccw citizen, perhaps emboldened by the applause given to this man, including apparently the official approval of the Miami PD, pulls a gun in this situation the results might not be so good. Really, common sense would suggest that if such a situation repeats itself then the ccw citizen(s) present would do well to keep their weapons concealed until it was apparent that there was immediate threat to life and that they shoot the offender without warning, preferably in the back, several times, thus minimising the chances of collateral damage.

 

[Burp]

(including basic firearms safety and competent use training)

The citizen had a permit, you have to have proof of gun competence training to get one.
doo doo head. is that better?

The citizen had a permit. He shouldn't have one now

I mean the bloke acted like an idiot. For some reason, tombstone courage, panic, blind temper, who knows, he pulled his gun and endangered every single person within range of his firearms and that of the crook. It was an extremely intemperate thing to do.

The accolades for him are because he managed to kill the robber. If he had been killed or if the robber had shot innocent people because he had been challenged the accolades would be muted.

Now I know that's hypothetical but it's not an unreasonable objection.

The appropriateness of his actions need to be properly appreciated. This time it worked out, the next time a ccw citizen, perhaps emboldened by the applause given to this man, including apparently the official approval of the Miami PD, pulls a gun in this situation the results might not be so good. Really, common sense would suggest that if such a situation repeats itself then the ccw citizen(s) present would do well to keep their weapons concealed until it was apparent that there was immediate threat to life and that they shoot the offender without warning, preferably in the back, several times, thus minimising the chances of collateral damage.

If he decided to start shooting the place up, and your child or spouse was in there, I think you'd be quite thankful to the legally armed individual for killing the BG.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

(including basic firearms safety and competent use training)

The citizen had a permit, you have to have proof of gun competence training to get one.
doo doo head. is that better?

The citizen had a permit. He shouldn't have one now

I mean the bloke acted like an idiot. For some reason, tombstone courage, panic, blind temper, who knows, he pulled his gun and endangered every single person within range of his firearms and that of the crook. It was an extremely intemperate thing to do.

The accolades for him are because he managed to kill the robber. If he had been killed or if the robber had shot innocent people because he had been challenged the accolades would be muted.

Now I know that's hypothetical but it's not an unreasonable objection.

The appropriateness of his actions need to be properly appreciated. This time it worked out, the next time a ccw citizen, perhaps emboldened by the applause given to this man, including apparently the official approval of the Miami PD, pulls a gun in this situation the results might not be so good. Really, common sense would suggest that if such a situation repeats itself then the ccw citizen(s) present would do well to keep their weapons concealed until it was apparent that there was immediate threat to life and that they shoot the offender without warning, preferably in the back, several times, thus minimising the chances of collateral damage.

More feminized nonsense from the ranks of the disarmed...

Australians are FOREVER locked out of commenting upon the US protections of the inalienable right to own and use a firearm.

The CCW was ABSOLUTELY WITHIN HIS RIGHT AND ACTED UPON HIS RESPONSIBILITY, HIS SACRED DUTY TO SHUT THIS RIGHT USURPING ASSHOLE, and to KILL HIS ASS IN THE PROCESS.

IN NO WAY< IS THERE ANY POTENTIAL FOR TO SUPPORT THE CONCLUSION THAT THE CCW WAS OR COULD AT ANY LEVEL BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY PERSON INJURED AS A RESULT OF THE ACTIONS OF THE INDIVIDUAL THAT CAME INTO THAT BK AND BRANDISHED A FIREARM AND USURPING THE RIGHTS OF EVERYONE IN THAT FACILITY.

THE PERPETRATOR WAS ALREADY PRONE TOWARDS INJURING THE INNOCENT AND WHETHER HE IS CONTESTED OR NOT DOES NOT EXCUSE OR PROVIDE A REASON WHICH MAY SERVE ON SOME LEVEL TO EXCUSE HIS 100% RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERY INJURY SUSTAINED BY HIS ACTIONS.

Diur here feels that there are armed killers out there victimizing the innocent... the solution for which is to DISARM THE INNOCENT.

But sadly, this is what Aurstalia has become... a feminized culture destined for failure. The only question is what culture will eventually conquer Australia. It wouldn't be that much of a problem... once the tiny little Australian military is dispatched, which the Rhode Island State Police would do in a WEEKEND... the citizenry of Australia is helpless to do a damn thing to stop them. They're completely disarmed.

 

[KittenKoder]

Um ... while against gun overcontrol ...

Pubicus ... the toughest person is the one that can kill without anything more than their bare hands ... the smartest uses chemicals from household cleaners so they can't be traced ... and the manliest I have seen brawl ...

 

[Peejay]

WIS News 10 - Columbia, South Carolina | CPD: Charges likely for grandmother in Sam's Club shooting


I'm all for guns but there are far too many idiots carrying them. In the story above, a concealed carrier left a loaded weapon in reach of a toodler, inside a Sam's Club. The toddler shot herself in the chest.

This woman, somehow, passed a concealed carry class and was licensed to carry. She should be charged.

 

[BrianH]

You're missing the point. Read my comment.

No you prove the point. You make assumptions based on what? The civilian DID kill the robber. Ohh and no one else got hurt. He made a judgement call, one you were not there to second guess. You further have no idea how fast he used the weapon or that he ever shot to wound.

I didn't make assumptions. He didn't fire fast enough; that's why he got shot. And I never said he was shooting to wound. That was brought up in the second part of my statement as a general statement; not one referring to this case. I'm not arguing the right for him to carry the gun or to use it. I'm just saying a lot of people who do carry them aren't always best prepared to use them when they need to. You on the other hand, are assuming the robber would have shot the place up which is definitely an assumption.

The bottom line fact is that we lose more Americans to accidental gunshot wounds than anywhere else in the world, and those numbers are far greater than those saved by people carrying guns. That is a simple fact that cannot be argued. But it is our right and I support that right regardless of the cost.

Just be honest enough to admit the facts. There are more than enough good reasons we have the right to own and carry guns. Saving lives is not one of them statistically.

To be honest, you don't have enough information about the shooting to fully understand the situation. There are WAY too many factors that are to account for.
For example: The caliber of the firearm the concealed carrier was using could account for himself being shot. There have been NUMEROUS accounts of 9mm. not stopping criminals with a couple of shots. THe customer could have hit the robber first, but the projectile may not have been enough to stop him, so the robber could have had time to fire back.
Also, the customer's position within the store could have lead to his being shot.
-The robber may have fired first and the concealed carrier could have responded.

I agree that if you have a concealed carry permit that you better be on your heals and damn good with your firearm before confronting an armed robber, however, I still believe there is just too much unknown about this incident to put any fault on the customer as of yet.

 

[BrianH]

WIS News 10 - Columbia, South Carolina | CPD: Charges likely for grandmother in Sam's Club shooting


I'm all for guns but there are far too many idiots carrying them. In the story above, a concealed carrier left a loaded weapon in reach of a toodler, inside a Sam's Club. The toddler shot herself in the chest.

This woman, somehow, passed a concealed carry class and was licensed to carry. She should be charged.

Agreed. Now, I don't know if this lady should be imprisoned the rest of her life, but I do believe she should face some sort of punishment, because let's face it, loosing a child (and knowing it's your fault) is enough punishment in itslef. We don't have to imprison a woman as if to "teach her a lesson." I believe she's learned her lesson and will most likely not carry a firearm where a child can get ahold of it; if carry a firearm at all.

 

[Burp]

More info:

John Landers, 45, was the customer who walked up to the gun-wielding masked robber, 18-year-old Johnny Jean-Baptiste, when the restaurant's clerk was being robbed at 4 p.m. Tuesday.

According to police, Jean-Baptiste wore a ski mask when he walked into the Burger King at Northeast 54th Street and Biscayne Boulevard armed with a gun. It was a time, employees said, when it is usually crowded with schoolchildren and people getting out of work early. Jean-Baptiste then approached the counter, pointed his tiny semiautomatic Bryco .380 towards the restaurant's employees and demanded money.

That's when Landers, armed with a concealed weapons permit and his 9mm Glock 19, asked Jean-Baptiste to put the gun down, according to the police report.

Jean-Baptiste refused and began firing his gun and Landers shot back, police reported.

Within seconds, Landers had been shot in his chest, shoulder and arm -- and Jean-Baptiste lay dead on the restaurant floor, according to police.

According to police, Jean-Baptiste entered wearing a ski mask. He approached a clerk, showed his gun and demanded money. Within seconds, Landers eyed him and the two started arguing.

Jean-Baptiste fell to the floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.

Landers, who was shot several times, was in serious but stable condition at Jackson Memorial Hospital's Ryder Trauma Center.

Police identify robber, customer in deadly Burger King shooting - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

Bryco....inexpensive bottom shelf weapon - $80.00 used. Obviously did some damage though.

Glock 19 - sweet weapon. 9MM. Incredibly accurate. If he had hollow points, even sweeter. Of course, I am a bit biased. This is what I carry.

 

[Burp]

WIS News 10 - Columbia, South Carolina | CPD: Charges likely for grandmother in Sam's Club shooting


I'm all for guns but there are far too many idiots carrying them. In the story above, a concealed carrier left a loaded weapon in reach of a toodler, inside a Sam's Club. The toddler shot herself in the chest.

This woman, somehow, passed a concealed carry class and was licensed to carry. She should be charged.

Agreed. Now, I don't know if this lady should be imprisoned the rest of her life, but I do believe she should face some sort of punishment, because let's face it, loosing a child (and knowing it's your fault) is enough punishment in itslef. We don't have to imprison a woman as if to "teach her a lesson." I believe she's learned her lesson and will most likely not carry a firearm where a child can get ahold of it; if carry a firearm at all.

Re-read the story. The child didn't die.

Grandma was careless with the weapon - no doubt. She should get charged - no doubt.

Both of them were very, very lucky.

 

[BrianH]

WIS News 10 - Columbia, South Carolina | CPD: Charges likely for grandmother in Sam's Club shooting


I'm all for guns but there are far too many idiots carrying them. In the story above, a concealed carrier left a loaded weapon in reach of a toodler, inside a Sam's Club. The toddler shot herself in the chest.

This woman, somehow, passed a concealed carry class and was licensed to carry. She should be charged.

Agreed. Now, I don't know if this lady should be imprisoned the rest of her life, but I do believe she should face some sort of punishment, because let's face it, loosing a child (and knowing it's your fault) is enough punishment in itslef. We don't have to imprison a woman as if to "teach her a lesson." I believe she's learned her lesson and will most likely not carry a firearm where a child can get ahold of it; if carry a firearm at all.

Re-read the story. The child didn't die.

Grandma was careless with the weapon - no doubt. She should get charged - no doubt.

Both of them were very, very lucky.

Oh ok, yes. Very lucky...

I like gun threads, it's interesting what kind of idiotic nonsense anti-gun folk will come up with.

 

[Diuretic]

The citizen had a permit, you have to have proof of gun competence training to get one.
doo doo head. is that better?

The citizen had a permit. He shouldn't have one now

I mean the bloke acted like an idiot. For some reason, tombstone courage, panic, blind temper, who knows, he pulled his gun and endangered every single person within range of his firearms and that of the crook. It was an extremely intemperate thing to do.

The accolades for him are because he managed to kill the robber. If he had been killed or if the robber had shot innocent people because he had been challenged the accolades would be muted.

Now I know that's hypothetical but it's not an unreasonable objection.

The appropriateness of his actions need to be properly appreciated. This time it worked out, the next time a ccw citizen, perhaps emboldened by the applause given to this man, including apparently the official approval of the Miami PD, pulls a gun in this situation the results might not be so good. Really, common sense would suggest that if such a situation repeats itself then the ccw citizen(s) present would do well to keep their weapons concealed until it was apparent that there was immediate threat to life and that they shoot the offender without warning, preferably in the back, several times, thus minimising the chances of collateral damage.

If he decided to start shooting the place up, and your child or spouse was in there, I think you'd be quite thankful to the legally armed individual for killing the BG.

We could play the hypothetical game for hours if you like. Would you like me to give you a few hypothetical scenarios along the same lines?

 

[Diuretic]

Agreed. Now, I don't know if this lady should be imprisoned the rest of her life, but I do believe she should face some sort of punishment, because let's face it, loosing a child (and knowing it's your fault) is enough punishment in itslef. We don't have to imprison a woman as if to "teach her a lesson." I believe she's learned her lesson and will most likely not carry a firearm where a child can get ahold of it; if carry a firearm at all.

Re-read the story. The child didn't die.

Grandma was careless with the weapon - no doubt. She should get charged - no doubt.

Both of them were very, very lucky.

Oh ok, yes. Very lucky...

I like gun threads, it's interesting what kind of idiotic nonsense anti-gun folk will come up with.

Unfortunately it usually comes out as a dialogue of the deaf. There's much nonsense on both sides. The chances of a reasonably rational discussion usually go up in flames before thread number three.

 

[LOki]

I am not talking about removing firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people.

Got that as well?

You are talking about removing firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people. That is what you are talking about. If you are talking about licensing of individuals and registration of firearms, you are talkling about emoving firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people.

I do advocate licensing of individuals (including basic firearms safety and competent use training) and registration of firearms.

See? you are talking about removing firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people. Basic firearms safety and competent use training is separate from the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms; and the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is no assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use; nor is the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms necessary to establis reasonable assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use.

The ONLY purpose for the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is to remove firearms from (otherwise) law-abiding, responsible, competent people.

Now, I continue to make the point that firearms control laws have nothing to do with criminals. Criminals don't want legitimate firearms therefore they disregard firearms control laws. Firearms control laws have to be severely adapted to deal with criminals who use firearms as part of their day to day business, the normal laws won't do it.

Then why advocate licensing of individuals and registration of firearms?

 

[Diuretic]

Loki - your claims are in italics, my responses are in plain text.

You are talking about removing firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people. That is what you are talking about. If you are talking about licensing of individuals and registration of firearms, you are talkling about emoving firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people.

I'm not.

See? you are talking about removing firearms from law-abiding, responsible, competent people. Basic firearms safety and competent use training is separate from the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms; and the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is no assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use; nor is the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms necessary to establis reasonable assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use.

I'm not.

The ONLY purpose for the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is to remove firearms from (otherwise) law-abiding, responsible, competent people.

No it isn't.

Then why advocate licensing of individuals and registration of firearms?

To minimise harm from lawfully owned and use firearms. To know exactly where any lawfully owned firearm is at any given time.

 

[LOki]

I'm not.

You are, whether you're willing to admit it, or not.

I'm not.

You are, whether you're willing to admit it, or not. You see, basic firearms safety and competent use training is separate from the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms; and the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is no assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use; nor is the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms necessary to establish reasonable assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use.

No it isn't.

It is. basic firearms safety and competent use training is separate from the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms; and the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is no assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use; nor is the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms necessary to establish reasonable assurance of basic firearms safety and competent use, then neccessarily, the ONLY purpose for the licensing of individuals and registration of firearms is to remove firearms from (otherwise) law-abiding, responsible, competent people; whether you're willing to admit it, or not.

To minimise harm from lawfully owned and use firearms.

Which licesnsing individuals does not accomplish; which registering firearms does not accomplish.

To know exactly where any lawfully owned firearm is at any given time.

The ONLY purpose for which is to remove firearms from (otherwise) law-abiding, responsible, competent people.

 

[DavidS]

One man was killed and another seriously wounded in a shootout inside a Miami Burger King on Tuesday, officials said.

Police said a man wearing a ski mask walked into the store at Biscayne Boulevard and 54th Street and demanded money from a clerk.

A customer, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled a gun, said Officer Jeff Giordano, a Miami police spokesman.

The customer and robber exchanged fire.

The robber was shot dead at the scene.

The customer, who had several gunshot wounds, was taken to Ryder Trauma Center in serious but stable condition, said Lt. Ignatius Carroll, a Miami Fire Rescue spokesman.

At about 4 p.m., officials got several 911 calls reporting people shot inside the Burger King.

1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King shooting - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

-----

I saw Bravo! No telling how many people were saved because of his actions.

It doesn't sound like a wild-west shootout - and I would never advocate something like that.

But it is obvious that this guy saved not only a robbery but also a possible body count.

The counter argument by the anti gun crowd being, of course, that the robber would have never shot anyone and that the law abiding citizen had no right to "execute" a man for armed robber.

The anti-gun crowd would make the argument that if there were no guns, no one would have gotten hurt or killed.