Comparing Israel to South Africa is a far fetch.

[Hollie]

One of the things that should be discussed respect to the charges of apartheid, which no one ever does is to differentiate between so-called apartheid within Israel and so-called apartheid outside Israel in areas governed by the PA and Hamas.

Those who charge Israel with apartheid in areas governed by the PA and Hamas are requiring Israel to be responsible for areas under the authority of another government. This is ridiculous. The only way Israel can be responsible for those areas is if it takes over government of those areas. Which means deliberately and intentionally denying Arab Palestinians their self-determination, self-government and independence. Which would seem, to me, to be immoral.

Most non-whites in Apartheid South Africa were citizens of the Bantustans, they were not South African citizens. The Bantustans were considered self-governing by the South African Government. Using your logic there was no Apartheid in South Africa.

So, tell us about the status of non-Moslems in the apartheid Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza and the West Bank.

It appears that the Islamic terrorists have all but purged any non-Islamists.

Gaza Strip People Facts & Stats

 

[Sixties Fan]

One of the things that need to be separated, and is not, is this:

Is there actually Apartheid in the State of Israel?
Within the State of Israel?

Or what people usually like to refer to as "Israeli Apartheid" is actually happening in Gaza (governed by Hamas) and the P.A. (governed by President Mahmoud Abbas) where Israel has no governing powers?


South Africa was governed by non Africans. The Discrimination was against the Africans living inside the State.


What form of alleged Apartheid can be found inside the sovereign State of Israel?

 

[Hollie]

You have not replied to the quote from Tutu, so I am guessing you really don't want to discuss it as it blows away your OP like it was a feather.

Without a source for your so called 'quote' that you had to post in gargantuan bolded text, I already blew your so called 'quote' away. It's about a mile or two away already.

LOL! Are you denying he said it or did you blow it away? HAHAHA!

Tutu has spoken out forever against her apartheid.

...I have reached this conclusion slowly and painfully. I am aware that many of our Jewish brothers and sisters who were so instrumental in the fight against South African apartheid are not yet ready to reckon with the apartheid nature of Israel and its current government. And I am enormously concerned that raising this issue will cause heartache to some in the Jewish community with whom I have worked closely and successfully for decades. But I cannot ignore the Palestinian suffering I have witnessed, nor the voices of those courageous Jews troubled by Israel's discriminatory course....
---Desmond Tutu, winner of the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize, is archbishop-emeritus of Cape Town, South Africa.

Justice requires action to stop subjugation of Palestinians

Your homework is more cutting and pasting of "quotes".

 

[montelatici]

One of the things that need to be separated, and is not, is this:

Is there actually Apartheid in the State of Israel?
Within the State of Israel?

Or what people usually like to refer to as "Israeli Apartheid" is actually happening in Gaza (governed by Hamas) and the P.A. (governed by President Mahmoud Abbas) where Israel has no governing powers?


South Africa was governed by non Africans. The Discrimination was against the Africans living inside the State.


What form of alleged Apartheid can be found inside the sovereign State of Israel?

The great majority of non-whites were citizens of the Bantustans. Self-governing states, according to the South Africans. Under your definition, there was no Apartheid in Apartheid South Africa, since the majority of non-whites were not citizens of South Africa.

 

[Hollie]

One of the things that need to be separated, and is not, is this:

Is there actually Apartheid in the State of Israel?
Within the State of Israel?

Or what people usually like to refer to as "Israeli Apartheid" is actually happening in Gaza (governed by Hamas) and the P.A. (governed by President Mahmoud Abbas) where Israel has no governing powers?


South Africa was governed by non Africans. The Discrimination was against the Africans living inside the State.


What form of alleged Apartheid can be found inside the sovereign State of Israel?

The great majority of non-whites were citizens of the Bantustans. Self-governing states, according to the South Africans. Under your definition, there was no Apartheid in Apartheid South Africa, since the majority of non-whites were not citizens of South Africa.

That cut and paste comment makes no connection to your failed claim that Israel practices apartheid.

Spamming threads with out of context references only serves to reinforce your buffoonery.

 

[Humanity]

One of the things that should be discussed respect to the charges of apartheid, which no one ever does is to differentiate between so-called apartheid within Israel and so-called apartheid outside Israel in areas governed by the PA and Hamas.

Those who charge Israel with apartheid in areas governed by the PA and Hamas are requiring Israel to be responsible for areas under the authority of another government. This is ridiculous. The only way Israel can be responsible for those areas is if it takes over government of those areas. Which means deliberately and intentionally denying Arab Palestinians their self-determination, self-government and independence. Which would seem, to me, to be immoral.

Most non-whites in Apartheid South Africa were citizens of the Bantustans, they were not South African citizens. The Bantustans were considered self-governing by the South African Government. Using your logic there was no Apartheid in South Africa.

That, is an utter crock of shit!

Bantustans (homelands) were created by the white government, the apartheid government, to remove blacks from living in urbans areas 'designated' for 'whites only'!

 

[Sixties Fan]

A history of Apartheid in South Africa | South African History Online

What was apartheid?

Translated from the Afrikaans meaning 'apartness', apartheid was the ideologysupported by the National Party (NP) government and was introduced in South Africa in 1948. Apartheid called for the separate development of the different racial groups in South Africa. On paper it appeared to call for equal development and freedom of cultural expression, but the way it was implemented made this impossible. Apartheid made laws forced the different racial groups to live separately and develop separately, and grossly unequally too. It tried to stop all inter-marriage and social integration between racial groups. During apartheid, to have a friendship with someone of a different race generally brought suspicion upon you, or worse. More than this, apartheid was a social system which severely disadvantaged the majority of the population, simply because they did not share the skin colour of the rulers. Many were kept just above destitution because they were 'non-white'.

-----------------
Nothing to do with the State of Israel, the majority Jewish and minority non-Jewish.

 

[montelatici]

One of the things that should be discussed respect to the charges of apartheid, which no one ever does is to differentiate between so-called apartheid within Israel and so-called apartheid outside Israel in areas governed by the PA and Hamas.

Those who charge Israel with apartheid in areas governed by the PA and Hamas are requiring Israel to be responsible for areas under the authority of another government. This is ridiculous. The only way Israel can be responsible for those areas is if it takes over government of those areas. Which means deliberately and intentionally denying Arab Palestinians their self-determination, self-government and independence. Which would seem, to me, to be immoral.

Most non-whites in Apartheid South Africa were citizens of the Bantustans, they were not South African citizens. The Bantustans were considered self-governing by the South African Government. Using your logic there was no Apartheid in South Africa.

That, is an utter crock of shit!

Bantustans (homelands) were created by the white government, the apartheid government, to remove blacks from living in urbans areas 'designated' for 'whites only'!

They were created to promote the fantasy that Apartheid South Africa was a democratic state. Only 55% of non-whites lived in the Bantustans, the rest were Bantustan citizens working in South Africa as guest workers with the equivalent of work visas. A minority of non-whites were South African citizens, particularly the Cape coloured, some blacks and Indians. But like the non-Jewish citizens of Israel they were a minority and could not influence Government policy. I worked in South Africa during Apartheid and went back on business trips after Apartheid, I learned quite a bit about South Africa. Even during Apartheid, the Boers did not express hate for the non-whites, notwithstanding the bombings and terrorist attacks. In conversations with Boers and some Anglos during Apartheid, they would say that the non-whites were not bad people, but that they lacked intelligence and that they were better off working for them as they (the whites) were better at governing and ruling. I never utter a "crock of shit" I know what I talk about or I don't talk.

 

[teddyearp]

Justice requires action to stop subjugation of Palestinians

That link does not contain the quote you originally claimed to be from Tutu. The feather is about ten miles away now.

Besides, my point is that the noun 'Apartheid' was rooted in a couple of Dutch words that the Afrikaans adopted and made it into what it WAS. I think it does them and the world a great disservice to now take this word, just because it was such a great 'catch word' or 'sound bite', and apply it to a situation that has been admitted here by both sides that is not exactly the same.

 

[Sixties Fan]

One of the things that should be discussed respect to the charges of apartheid, which no one ever does is to differentiate between so-called apartheid within Israel and so-called apartheid outside Israel in areas governed by the PA and Hamas.

Those who charge Israel with apartheid in areas governed by the PA and Hamas are requiring Israel to be responsible for areas under the authority of another government. This is ridiculous. The only way Israel can be responsible for those areas is if it takes over government of those areas. Which means deliberately and intentionally denying Arab Palestinians their self-determination, self-government and independence. Which would seem, to me, to be immoral.

Most non-whites in Apartheid South Africa were citizens of the Bantustans, they were not South African citizens. The Bantustans were considered self-governing by the South African Government. Using your logic there was no Apartheid in South Africa.

That, is an utter crock of shit!

Bantustans (homelands) were created by the white government, the apartheid government, to remove blacks from living in urbans areas 'designated' for 'whites only'!

Beduins, Druze and other Arab communities continue to live in the villages they lived in around 1948 in the northern part of the State.
They did not fight against the State and stayed in their homes, to this day.
The Bahai community in Haifa is well known.
There is an Arab community in Jaffa. And other areas where there is Muslim/Jewish co-existance.

There are no Jews allowed to reside in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Gaza, areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.

Jerusalem is a mixed Jewish/Muslim/Armenian, etc communities.


Attempts to compare S.A. to Israel fall flat by the facts on the ground.

 

[Roudy]

Strawman argument. Nobody equates Israel to South Africa.

Your comrade Monte and many idiots like him do.

 

[Roudy]

Let us not forget who Desmond Tutu is and where he learned what he thinks and says:

Tutu and the Jews


Is it Time to Dethrone Desmond Tutu?

Well, since you feel comfortable posting Zionist lies about Desmond Tutu, like many racists do. How Nobel Laureate's confirmation of Tutu's conclusion. Coetzee also lived under Apartheid. He is also a Nobel prize winner.

Yawn.....zzzzzzzz....more propaganda.

 

[montelatici]

One of the things that should be discussed respect to the charges of apartheid, which no one ever does is to differentiate between so-called apartheid within Israel and so-called apartheid outside Israel in areas governed by the PA and Hamas.

Those who charge Israel with apartheid in areas governed by the PA and Hamas are requiring Israel to be responsible for areas under the authority of another government. This is ridiculous. The only way Israel can be responsible for those areas is if it takes over government of those areas. Which means deliberately and intentionally denying Arab Palestinians their self-determination, self-government and independence. Which would seem, to me, to be immoral.

Most non-whites in Apartheid South Africa were citizens of the Bantustans, they were not South African citizens. The Bantustans were considered self-governing by the South African Government. Using your logic there was no Apartheid in South Africa.

That, is an utter crock of shit!

Bantustans (homelands) were created by the white government, the apartheid government, to remove blacks from living in urbans areas 'designated' for 'whites only'!

Beduins, Druze and other Arab communities continue to live in the villages they lived in around 1948 in the northern part of the State.
They did not fight against the State and stayed in their homes, to this day.
The Bahai community in Haifa is well known.
There is an Arab community in Jaffa. And other areas where there is Muslim/Jewish co-existance.

There are no Jews allowed to reside in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Gaza, areas A and B of Judea and Samaria.

Jerusalem is a mixed Jewish/Muslim/Armenian, etc communities.


Attempts to compare S.A. to Israel fall flat by the facts on the ground.

Apartheid South Africa was no different. Cape Colony, for example, was a mix of whites and non-whites that spoke Afrikaans. The facts on the ground are the same. To celebrate people that meekly accepted Jew rule is a bit naive, don't you think. What is there to celebrate about people who meekly accept to be ruled by a foreign invader that names the country after a religion you are not a follower of and that has evicted the majority of your compatriots? I don't get it.

 

[Humanity]

Of course Israel is an apartheid state.

It defies logic to claim otherwise. ....

Unless you personally experience apartheid in SA then you can really make no comparison!

There are similarities BUT even though Israel DOES carry out 'aparthied''-esque actions but it is so NOT an "apartheid state" in the terms of what SA apartheid was!

Correct, Israel is far more brutal in its Apartheid.

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa

"In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid," Chomsky says. "To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison."

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa | Democracy Now!

Sorry, you clearly never experienced Apartheid in SA!

If you did you would NEVER make such ridiculous statements!

Israel is FAR from perfect in it's actions and, in my opinion, does take a stance that starts to look like a form of apartheid BUT it is not even close to the horror apartheid that used to exist in SA!

Moreover, the current 'negative apartheid' that is taking place in SA is more akin to what is going on in Israel... Maybe have a think about that for a more educated opinion of the two situations!

 

[Sixties Fan]

Of course Israel is an apartheid state.

It defies logic to claim otherwise. ....

Unless you personally experience apartheid in SA then you can really make no comparison!

There are similarities BUT even though Israel DOES carry out 'aparthied''-esque actions but it is so NOT an "apartheid state" in the terms of what SA apartheid was!

Correct, Israel is far more brutal in its Apartheid.

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa

"In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid," Chomsky says. "To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison."

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa | Democracy Now!

Sorry, you clearly never experienced Apartheid in SA!

If you did you would NEVER make such ridiculous statements!

Israel is FAR from perfect in it's actions and, in my opinion, does take a stance that starts to look like a form of apartheid BUT it is not even close to the horror apartheid that used to exist in SA!

Moreover, the current 'negative apartheid' that is taking place in SA is more akin to what is going on in Israel... Maybe have a think about that for a more educated opinion of the two situations!

"does take a stance that starts to look like a form of apartheid"

What does that mean?

Give examples.

 

[montelatici]

Of course Israel is an apartheid state.

It defies logic to claim otherwise. ....

Unless you personally experience apartheid in SA then you can really make no comparison!

There are similarities BUT even though Israel DOES carry out 'aparthied''-esque actions but it is so NOT an "apartheid state" in the terms of what SA apartheid was!

Correct, Israel is far more brutal in its Apartheid.

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa

"In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid," Chomsky says. "To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison."

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa | Democracy Now!

Sorry, you clearly never experienced Apartheid in SA!

If you did you would NEVER make such ridiculous statements!

Israel is FAR from perfect in it's actions and, in my opinion, does take a stance that starts to look like a form of apartheid BUT it is not even close to the horror apartheid that used to exist in SA!

Moreover, the current 'negative apartheid' that is taking place in SA is more akin to what is going on in Israel... Maybe have a think about that for a more educated opinion of the two situations!

Of course I didn't experience Apartheid in South Africa, I am white. But I was able to observe the dynamic while I was there. And I have also spent time in Israel. The Apartheid in Israel is far more brutal than the Apartheid in South Africa, from my personal experience. There were plenty of non-white police officers in Pretoria, never saw an Arab police officer in Tel Aviv. But you have probably never been in either country so I accept that. The negative Apartheid, as you call it, is a terrible thing. But the poor whites are actually still better off than the poor non-whites. The people I deal with are Boers and they are middle to top management that live in gated communities that have black servants, gardeners etc. They still live better than Americans or Europeans with similar jobs. Boer farmers are certainly at risk today, but it is blowback. You can't oppress people for decades and not expect blowback. Israelis will experience the same thing eventually. It's a difficult process.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Of course Israel is an apartheid state.

It defies logic to claim otherwise. ....

Unless you personally experience apartheid in SA then you can really make no comparison!

There are similarities BUT even though Israel DOES carry out 'aparthied''-esque actions but it is so NOT an "apartheid state" in the terms of what SA apartheid was!

Correct, Israel is far more brutal in its Apartheid.

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa

"In the Occupied Territories, what Israel is doing is much worse than apartheid," Chomsky says. "To call it apartheid is a gift to Israel, at least if by 'apartheid' you mean South African-style apartheid. What’s happening in the Occupied Territories is much worse. There’s a crucial difference. The South African Nationalists needed the black population. That was their workforce. … The Israeli relationship to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is totally different. They just don’t want them. They want them out, or at least in prison."

Noam Chomsky: Israel's Actions in Palestine are "Much Worse Than Apartheid" in South Africa | Democracy Now!

Sorry, you clearly never experienced Apartheid in SA!

If you did you would NEVER make such ridiculous statements!

Israel is FAR from perfect in it's actions and, in my opinion, does take a stance that starts to look like a form of apartheid BUT it is not even close to the horror apartheid that used to exist in SA!

Moreover, the current 'negative apartheid' that is taking place in SA is more akin to what is going on in Israel... Maybe have a think about that for a more educated opinion of the two situations!

Of course I didn't experience Apartheid in South Africa, I am white. But I was able to observe the dynamic while I was there. And I have also spent time in Israel. The Apartheid in Israel is far more brutal than the Apartheid in South Africa, from my personal experience. There were plenty of non-white police officers in Pretoria, never saw an Arab police officer in Tel Aviv. But you have probably never been in either country so I accept that. The negative Apartheid, as you call it, is a terrible thing. But the poor whites are actually still better off than the poor non-whites. The people I deal with are Boers and they are middle to top management that live in gated communities that have black servants, gardeners etc. They still live better than Americans or Europeans with similar jobs. Boer farmers are certainly at risk today, but it is blowback. You can't oppress people for decades and not expect blowback. Israelis will experience the same thing eventually. It's a difficult process.

Actually, Muslims and Christians cannot oppress the Jewish people and other non-Muslims or Christians for 1700/1400 and not expect a blowback.

And that is exactly what happened when the Jews said "Enough is Enough"
They were going back to their homeland and try to recreate sovereignty on their ancient homeland.

It is now known as Israel.

It is what the Kurds have said. And so many other indigenous people trying to create their sovereign State on their ancient homelands.

You may want to contact Hamas and Abbas to see if they can stop oppressing their own Arab people, which they have been doing since 1920.
The Ottomans are gone. Hussein and Arafat and Abbas and Mashall took over the oppression of the Arab people.

Time to tell them that Enough Is Enough.

 

[montelatici]

Palestine is not a European homeland. The Zionists were Europeans.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestine is not a European homeland. The Zionists were Europeans.

The Zionists are descendants of those who came from the Land of Israel and returned to recreate their ancient Homeland.

Accept it or not, that is what it was, that is who they were, and no denial of it is ever going to change it.

It does not change the fact that the Land of Israel belongs to all the Jews, be they Babylonian Jews, Iranian Jews, Syrian Jews, Lebanese Jews, Moroccan Jews, Egyptian Jews, American Jews, or any Jew from anywhere else in the world.

And Israel is made up of ALL of those Jews.

Like it. Not like it. Your opinions means a huge big ZERO, when it comes to protecting Jews from any more Christian and Muslim hatred of Jews.

ALL Jews.

 

[montelatici]

Palestine is not a European homeland. The Zionists were Europeans.

The Zionists are descendants of those who came from the Land of Israel and returned to recreate their ancient Homeland.

Accept it or not, that is what it was, that is who they were, and no denial of it is ever going to change it.

It does not change the fact that the Land of Israel belongs to all the Jews, be they Babylonian Jews, Iranian Jews, Syrian Jews, Lebanese Jews, Moroccan Jews, Egyptian Jews, American Jews, or any Jew from anywhere else in the world.

And Israel is made up of ALL of those Jews.

Like it. Not like it. Your opinions means a huge big ZERO, when it comes to protecting Jews from any more Christian and Muslim hatred of Jews.

ALL Jews.

I present facts, you present a fairy tale. Your fairy tales are a big ZERO.