Compare Socialized Medicine to the American Mess.

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

No, we just need to reintroduce the free market back into the equation. That will bring rates down.

Which is where the US (and particularly the right) and the rest of the free world generally disagree. We don't see health as a business, but a service...

You're free to disagree away. What the rest of the "free world" (and I would starkly disagree that what is defined as the free world is really free) agrees or disagrees with has absolutely no relevancy as to what we do here.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The WHO report has been debunked here 100 times, but the socialists here will not hear of it.

Never debunked with facts.

Most likely debunked by public relations departments of large insurance companies or through their lobbyists in Washington.

You're free to show that at any time. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[dblack]

If single payer is the answer, why have health care costs increased in single payer systems? It is not a panacea. It is just another imperfect system.....

it would seem all systems are rising:

No countries have brought down costs -- health care costs are rising everywhere (with the occasional year-to-year variation), so the real issue is whether other countries are providing good quality care at lower costs than the United States

All these system inject the same inflationary pressure into the health care market. And even when it's a captive market, prices respond by going up. These systems also all operate on the same basic premise - that no one should have to worry about paying for their health care. The only way to make this approach work is to completely take over health care and run it as a state service. But that "bargain" includes tradeoffs most people don't want to make.

so the question is, which gives us the best bang for our buck and our current system isnt it.

The way to the most bang for "our" buck is to starting paying for "our" own health care. As long as we're strung out on the delusion we can get someone else to do it, prices will continue to rise.

 

[francoHFW]

Dupes didn't get the memo. Every country but ours loves their health system (over 80% vs our 34%), and ours costs twice as much with worse results, only we have bankruptcies (750k/year) and only we have people die (45k/year) because they have no care. IDIOTS...

 

[francoHFW]

If single payer is the answer, why have health care costs increased in single payer systems? It is not a panacea. It is just another imperfect system.....

it would seem all systems are rising:

All these system inject the same inflationary pressure into the health care market. And even when it's a captive market, prices respond by going up. These systems also all operate on the same basic premise - that no one should have to worry about paying for their health care. The only way to make this approach work is to completely take over health care and run it as a state service. But that "bargain" includes tradeoffs most people don't want to make.

so the question is, which gives us the best bang for our buck and our current system isnt it.

The way to the most bang for "our" buck is to starting paying for "our" own health care. As long as we're strung out on the delusion we can get someone else to do it, prices will continue to rise.

Ever heard of regulating a totally out of control Pub scam system? Absolutely clueless....

 

[Full-Auto]

Dupes didn't get the memo. Every country but ours loves their health system (over 80% vs our 34%), and ours costs twice as much with worse results, only we have bankruptcies (750k/year) and only we have people die (45k/year) because they have no care. IDIOTS...

A few more government mandates should do the trick.

Oh wait thats why.

 

[dblack]

it would seem all systems are rising:

All these system inject the same inflationary pressure into the health care market. And even when it's a captive market, prices respond by going up. These systems also all operate on the same basic premise - that no one should have to worry about paying for their health care. The only way to make this approach work is to completely take over health care and run it as a state service. But that "bargain" includes tradeoffs most people don't want to make.

so the question is, which gives us the best bang for our buck and our current system isnt it.

The way to the most bang for "our" buck is to starting paying for "our" own health care. As long as we're strung out on the delusion we can get someone else to do it, prices will continue to rise.

Ever heard of regulating a totally out of control Pub scam system? Absolutely clueless....

Ever heard of completes sentences and coherent thoughts? Seriously, are you trying to make a point?

 

[Dr Grump]

When I lived in England I used the NHS when I broke my leg. It was fantastic...

Your one experience with NHS does not define the system.

Neither does it of those who have a negative experience..

 

[Dr Grump]

No one cares that Germany and France lead a lot healthier life styles, have much smaller populations, and are extremely less diverse than the American population? Does that factor in at all to these stats?

But isn't that the point? And why do they need to be factored into the stats? Stats are stats. If you have a massive obesity problem, it affects your health system. It's irrelevant how all those Teletubbies got that way....

It's quite relevant because supporters of the European health care systems try to correlate the fact their health care system is the reason why they live healthier lifestyles (eat right, exercise, don't smoke) when in fact it has little to do with it at all, but you already knew that.

Er, no. That is not what they are saying at all. They are just comparing the health systems - doctors per head of population, the type of facilities that are available. A healthier lifestyle has nothing to do with a health system.

 

[Dr Grump]

No, we just need to reintroduce the free market back into the equation. That will bring rates down.

Which is where the US (and particularly the right) and the rest of the free world generally disagree. We don't see health as a business, but a service...

You're free to disagree away. What the rest of the "free world" (and I would starkly disagree that what is defined as the free world is really free) agrees or disagrees with has absolutely no relevancy as to what we do here.

Depends on your definition of free..

As I said to CG recently, great way to play the man, not the ball...

 

[francoHFW]

I understand that actual knowledge about our system is new to you....

Dupes didn't get the memo. Every country but ours loves their health system (over 80% vs our 34%), and ours costs twice as much with worse results, only we have bankruptcies (750k/year) and only we have people die (45k/year) because they have no care. IDIOTS...

 

[francoHFW]

Transparent competition IS part of ACA. Duh!

 

[francoHFW]

Pubs defend this mess to the death. Open your eyes fcs...dittoheads...

 

[auditor0007]

She lives in Britain.

Yea, and their health care sucks. Hence I have private insurance... but I still have to pay for their shit... without using it. That's fair.... nope.

When I lived in England I used the NHS when I broke my leg. It was fantastic...

I dated a gal from Scotland a few years back. She was satisfied with the system but did complain about long waits to see specialists. Her son had an issue and needed to see a specialist. It took close to a year until he could get an appointment. While that is somewhat of an issue, his condition was not life threatening. It was more of an inconvenience. The thing about the NHS is that health is prioritized. If it is urgent care, you are seen right away. If it is something non-urgent, then you may wait a while, but you will be seen and treated professionally.

 

[niteowl]

Dr. Yuri N. Maltsev, senior fellow of the Mises Institute, worked as an economist on Mikhail Gorbachev's economic reform team before defecting to the United States. The health care system of the Soviet Union is a relic of the past, and a harbinger of America's future under Obamacare.

What Soviet Medicine Teaches Us - Yuri N. Maltsev - Mises Daily

 

[auditor0007]

Dr. Yuri N. Maltsev, senior fellow of the Mises Institute, worked as an economist on Mikhail Gorbachev's economic reform team before defecting to the United States. The health care system of the Soviet Union is a relic of the past, and a harbinger of America's future under Obamacare.

What Soviet Medicine Teaches Us - Yuri N. Maltsev - Mises Daily

Yes, that is the goal of Obamacare, to become identical to the near 100 year old plan of a failed communist system.

 

[Old Rocks]

A nice cheep sensible government run option that people can buy into if they lose their job or work for themselves. And yes, a lot of employers would stop providing healthcare if this came to be, and isn't that great? Wouldn't that eliminate a big burden on corporations not to have to deal with healthcare? They cry about Sarbanes Oxley but I bet one of HR's biggest tasks is dealing with Heatlhcare. And its costing companies a fortune. I've never understood why they don't push for a public option too.

Just let young people buy into Medicare. Whatever Medicare is, give that to us. We would actually lower the costs of medicare because we aren't old. Consider how much seniors use the doctors. A lot more than we do. So we would actually strengthen medicare.

The health stats for Americans are below everybody else's until the age of 65. Then, suddenly, the stats are about the same. Why? MediCare.

 

[Old Rocks]

Very interesting data.
NationMaster - Health stats: Germany vs United States

We are a nation of fat bastards.

That, more than anything else, affects our life expectancy.

We are victims of our own prosperity.

Who has the highest standard of living, Germany or the US?

Preventive medicine takes the lead when we all pay for everybodies health care. In our present system, it pays more to treat the illness than prevent it. And Mammon is our God.

 

[Old Rocks]

Very interesting data.
NationMaster - Health stats: Germany vs United States

Check out France and Sweden. Two tier systems work best. And although Sweden is excellent, France I believe still rates number one as far as getting more bang for your buck.

Highly efficient. And yes I am a conservative. But I've been watching my health care system failing for years now and politics always gets in the way of just getting things improved.

But you support the people that keep us in this nonsensical system.

There are many differant ways that nations are skinning this cat. Ours seems to be the worst way.

Watch The Full Program | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[Political Junky]

Health care in Israel is universal and participation in a medical insurance plan is compulsory. Health care coverage is administered by a small number of organizations, with funding from the government. All Israeli citizens are entitled to the same Uniform Benefits Package, regardless of which organization they are a member of, and treatment under this package is funded for all citizens regardless of their financial means. Generally, health care in Israel is of high-quality and is delivered in an efficient and effective manner. Partly as a result of this, at an overall 82 years, Israelis enjoy the fourth-longest life expectancy in the world as of 2010.
Health care in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia