Communism and Democratic Socialism. A question for conservatives.

[danielpalos]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

involving, applicable to, or affecting the whole

General must also mean, comprehensive and considering all contingencies.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

involving, applicable to, or affecting the whole

General must also mean, comprehensive and considering all contingencies.

Thank you..


You finnaly agree that Obama tried to go around congress with the Paris accord .

 

[danielpalos]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

involving, applicable to, or affecting the whole

General must also mean, comprehensive and considering all contingencies.

Thank you..


You finnaly agree that Obama tried to go around congress with the Paris accord .

I am more concerned with what our actual, Chief Magistrate of the Union, is doing.

In my opinion, infrastructure should be able to process potable and wastewater and even industrial waste management.

Since the Chinese could have built a base on the Moon instead of all those empty cities, why not "give them credit for it" and merely acknowledge that socialism can concentrate wealth to more useful goals than more anarchic forms of freer Capitalism..

Tax cut economics and trade wars, do Nothing for Infrastructure.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

The General Welfare Clause as contained in the Taxing and Spending Clause (which version you posted) is not a grant of general legislative power, but a qualification on the taxing power which includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government.
- Associate Justice John Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1883.

The version found in the Preamble differs in its wording to promote the general welfare, which confers a different connotation altogether.

 

[Votto]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

Yes, I have a question. Have you ever read the commentary on the man, James Madison, on the General Welfare Clause? He wrote the Constitution.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

involving, applicable to, or affecting the whole

General must also mean, comprehensive and considering all contingencies.

Did you even read what I quoted, Sancho?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I am more concerned with what our actual, Chief Magistrate of the Union, is doing.

And who, pray tell, is the "Chief Magistrate of the Union" (pulled that right out of your ass), in your ass backwards fucked up view of American Civics?

 

[Bush92]

And as Lenin once quipped, "The goal of Socialism is Communism."

Yeah, a lot of people say a lot of stuff. Something tells me the Scandinavian countries aren't going to turn communist. Social safety nets and the ability to get educated without going into severe debt aren't going to turn us communist either. You're off your rocker if you think people like Bernie Sanders want the government to take over the economy and end the potential for individual success.

Keynesian economics does not work.

It works better than tax cut economics.

Andrew Mellon was right. Supply side and fair trade will boom economy. Government dependency does nothing but destroy economic growth.

 

[danielpalos]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

The General Welfare Clause as contained in the Taxing and Spending Clause (which version you posted) is not a grant of general legislative power, but a qualification on the taxing power which includes within it a federal power to spend federal revenues on matters of general interest to the federal government.
- Associate Justice John Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1883.

The version found in the Preamble differs in its wording to promote the general welfare, which confers a different connotation altogether.

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

That is the few and defined.

 

[danielpalos]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

Yes, I have a question. Have you ever read the commentary on the man, James Madison, on the General Welfare Clause? He wrote the Constitution.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."

in like manner, then; the common Defense cannot be the common Offense or general Warfare.

let's cut costs and transfer the savings, to infrastructure.

 

[danielpalos]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

You just SUCK at ANY historical reference to constitutional law, don't you?


You have NO BASIS for the bullshit you spew, do you, Sanchito?

Let's look at what James Madison said:

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

"It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected."

Take your all-powerful general welfare bullshit excuse for communism and shove it up your taco-shitting ass.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
​

but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The power to provide for the general welfare is expressly declared general, not common.

involving, applicable to, or affecting the whole

General must also mean, comprehensive and considering all contingencies.

Did you even read what I quoted, Sancho?

No, it was, irrelevant. General also means, Comprehensive, not just common.

 

[danielpalos]

I am more concerned with what our actual, Chief Magistrate of the Union, is doing.

And who, pray tell, is the "Chief Magistrate of the Union" (pulled that right out of your ass), in your ass backwards fucked up view of American Civics?

no, the right wing is simply, clueless and Causeless, like usual.

 

[danielpalos]

And as Lenin once quipped, "The goal of Socialism is Communism."

Yeah, a lot of people say a lot of stuff. Something tells me the Scandinavian countries aren't going to turn communist. Social safety nets and the ability to get educated without going into severe debt aren't going to turn us communist either. You're off your rocker if you think people like Bernie Sanders want the government to take over the economy and end the potential for individual success.

Keynesian economics does not work.

It works better than tax cut economics.

Andrew Mellon was right. Supply side and fair trade will boom economy. Government dependency does nothing but destroy economic growth.

end our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror--it Only breads dependence.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

The Lion's Share of the spending in this country is MANDATORY.........It is the area of Unfunded Liabilities that will eat us alive.

All of that was created under the General Welfare Clause which the founding fathers warned us about. There are bills coming that simply can't be paid........It's not possible.

The Warnings against a Large Gov't are all over the Federalists Papers.........and they were absolutely right.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

no, the right wing is simply, clueless and Causeless, like usual.

This is new.

 

[Votto]

The power to provide for the general welfare is general, not common.

Any questions, right wingers?

Yes, I have a question. Have you ever read the commentary on the man, James Madison, on the General Welfare Clause? He wrote the Constitution.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."

in like manner, then; the common Defense cannot be the common Offense or general Warfare.

let's cut costs and transfer the savings, to infrastructure.

You are correct.

This is what Abraham Lincoln said on the matter.

“ The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons. Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us.

But the POTUS now bypasses Congress by declaring war as they unilaterally take out a country like Libya.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 45

It is true, that the Confederacy is to possess, and may exercise, the power of collecting internal as well as external taxes throughout the States; but it is probable that this power will not be resorted to, except for supplemental purposes of revenue; that an option will then be given to the States to supply their quotas by previous collections of their own; and that the eventual collection, under the immediate authority of the Union, will generally be made by the officers, and according to the rules, appointed by the several States. Indeed it is extremely probable, that in other instances, particularly in the organization of the judicial power, the officers of the States will be clothed with the correspondent authority of the Union. Should it happen, however, that separate collectors of internal revenue should be appointed under the federal government, the influence of the whole number would not bear a comparison with that of the multitude of State officers in the opposite scale. Within every district to which a federal collector would be allotted, there would not be less than thirty or forty, or even more, officers of different descriptions, and many of them persons of character and weight, whose influence would lie on the side of the State. The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

 

[whitehall]

Why do lefties feel the need to use the phrase "democratic socialism" rather than socialism? The acronym of Hitler's Nazi party was the "nationalist socialist democratic workers party" how does that differ from "democratic socialism"? It's all a word game and a propaganda exercise to the left.

 

[eagle1462010]

Federalist Papers No. 10 - Bill of Rights Institute

By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adversed to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.

There are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects.

There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.

It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.

The second expedient is as impracticable as the first would be unwise. As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other; and the former will be objects to which the latter will attach themselves. The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties.

The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good. So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts. But the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property. Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society. Those who are creditors, and those who are debtors, fall under a like discrimination. A landed interest, a manufacturing interest, a mercantile interest, a moneyed interest, with many lesser interests, grow up of necessity in civilized nations, and divide them into different classes, actuated by different sentiments and views. The regulation of these various and interfering interests forms the principal task of modern legislation, and involves the spirit of party and faction in the necessary and ordinary operations of the government.