Collective punishment IS A WAR CRIME!

[Hollie]

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

????

WHAT? louie888
I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

Our only disagreement is that you aren't counting
the TERRORIST violence as COLLECTIVE punishment
"because it's not an official govt sponsored policy"
so it cannot compare to Israel that is instituting this through an OFFICIAL govt.

Shame on you.
Do you understand you are discounting all the TERRORISM
as "not being part of that equation"

How can you do that?
When the TERRORISM is what the govt is using to JUSTIFY
collective punishment, including arguments even against
the US policy that Trump promotes regarding travel bans.
That's a form of "collective" punishment abridging liberty
of law abiding people who happen to be from those target countries.

But BOTH are in RESPONSE to GENERAL TERRORIST THREATS
which ARE A FORM OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT.

I understand you only count OFFICIAL GOVT policy as collective punishment. I am using the broader SPIRIT of the concept
to count TERRORIST regimes and campaigns that AREN'T from an official govt.

The Palestinians do not violate any international law.

Of course not. Arab-Moslem terrorism is allowable under the international law codified as "The Islamic Terrorist Entitlement to Be Excused From The Standards of International Law."

 

[montelatici]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

 

[Hollie]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

It's comical when The Monty starts rattling off his specious opinions as "phacts"

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

 

[Hollie]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Places used to wage war are war targets.

 

[louie888]

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

And only the lowest forms of life don't see this.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

????

WHAT? louie888
I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

Our only disagreement is that you aren't counting
the TERRORIST violence as COLLECTIVE punishment
"because it's not an official govt sponsored policy"
so it cannot compare to Israel that is instituting this through an OFFICIAL govt.

Shame on you.
Do you understand you are discounting all the TERRORISM
as "not being part of that equation"

How can you do that?
When the TERRORISM is what the govt is using to JUSTIFY
collective punishment, including arguments even against
the US policy that Trump promotes regarding travel bans.
That's a form of "collective" punishment abridging liberty
of law abiding people who happen to be from those target countries.

But BOTH are in RESPONSE to GENERAL TERRORIST THREATS
which ARE A FORM OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT.

I understand you only count OFFICIAL GOVT policy as collective punishment. I am using the broader SPIRIT of the concept
to count TERRORIST regimes and campaigns that AREN'T from an official govt.

The Palestinians do not violate any international law.

Of course not. Arab-Moslem terrorism is allowable under the international law codified as "The Islamic Terrorist Entitlement to Be Excused From The Standards of International Law."

You do not need to prove your ignorance.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Places used to wage war are war targets.

Civilians can only be classified as militants when they are actively engaged in military operations.

At home with the wife and kids isn't it.

 

[montelatici]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Places used to wage war are war targets.

Civilians can only be classified as militants when they are actively engaged in military operations.

At home with the wife and kids isn't it.

GP I, Arts. 43 & 44

"Civilians who take a direct part in such hostilities lose their protection against attack for the time of their direct participation, but not their civilian status. If they do not participate directly in hostilities or no longer do so (for example, if they are hors de combat), they are protected against attacks. You know this from the lesson on the conduct of operations. Indirect support for the resistance movement, such as providing information or non-military supplies, does not constitute taking a direct part in hostilities. Those so engaged are civilians and therefore protected against attack. They may, however, be in contravention of security laws passed by the occupying power. In that case, they can be tried and sentenced or their freedom of movement restricted."

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/law9_final.pdf

 

[P F Tinmore]

How is attacking the occupation forces collective punishment. Were the French Resistance practicing collective punishment when they attacked and killed German and Vichy soldiers, police and officials? Often killing civilians when they bombed restaurants, bars and movie theaters?

Eh, blowing up a bunch of women and kids isn't "attacking occupation forces". It's being a fucking Palestinian terrorist animal.

They shouldn't be used for human shields.

 

[Hollie]

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

????

WHAT? louie888
I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

Our only disagreement is that you aren't counting
the TERRORIST violence as COLLECTIVE punishment
"because it's not an official govt sponsored policy"
so it cannot compare to Israel that is instituting this through an OFFICIAL govt.

Shame on you.
Do you understand you are discounting all the TERRORISM
as "not being part of that equation"

How can you do that?
When the TERRORISM is what the govt is using to JUSTIFY
collective punishment, including arguments even against
the US policy that Trump promotes regarding travel bans.
That's a form of "collective" punishment abridging liberty
of law abiding people who happen to be from those target countries.

But BOTH are in RESPONSE to GENERAL TERRORIST THREATS
which ARE A FORM OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT.

I understand you only count OFFICIAL GOVT policy as collective punishment. I am using the broader SPIRIT of the concept
to count TERRORIST regimes and campaigns that AREN'T from an official govt.

The Palestinians do not violate any international law.

Of course not. Arab-Moslem terrorism is allowable under the international law codified as "The Islamic Terrorist Entitlement to Be Excused From The Standards of International Law."

You do not need to prove your ignorance.

Don't get angry and frustrated with me because you are clueless. Your pointless whing about Arabs-Moslems not violating any international laws is just absurd.

 

[Hollie]

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Places used to wage war are war targets.

Civilians can only be classified as militants when they are actively engaged in military operations.

At home with the wife and kids isn't it.

GP I, Arts. 43 & 44

"Civilians who take a direct part in such hostilities lose their protection against attack for the time of their direct participation, but not their civilian status. If they do not participate directly in hostilities or no longer do so (for example, if they are hors de combat), they are protected against attacks. You know this from the lesson on the conduct of operations. Indirect support for the resistance movement, such as providing information or non-military supplies, does not constitute taking a direct part in hostilities. Those so engaged are civilians and therefore protected against attack. They may, however, be in contravention of security laws passed by the occupying power. In that case, they can be tried and sentenced or their freedom of movement restricted."

https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/law9_final.pdf

I'm glad you cut and pasted that. Arabs-Moslems taking a direct part in hostilities lose their status to an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.

 

[Hollie]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

Based on the facts, the Israelis primarily target women and children, intentionally. Bombing a residential apartment building housing families represents the intentional targeting of women and children.

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Places used to wage war are war targets.

Civilians can only be classified as militants when they are actively engaged in military operations.

At home with the wife and kids isn't it.

As usual, it's comical to see you invent laws as you go along.

You're so silly.

 

[Shusha]

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Not necessarily. The presence of protected persons at a military objective does not render that military objective invalid.

 

[montelatici]

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Not necessarily. The presence of protected persons at a military objective does not render that military objective invalid.

An residential apartment building inhabited by noncombatant families is not a military objective. It's amazing the lengths you go to to justify Israel's actions.

 

[Hollie]

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Not necessarily. The presence of protected persons at a military objective does not render that military objective invalid.

An residential apartment building inhabited by noncombatant families is not a military objective. It's amazing the lengths you go to to justify Israel's actions.

It's amazing what steps you people will take to scream out your Jew hatreds. You will happily parade around dead bodies of Islamics for cheap propaganda.

Israel Says That Hamas Uses Civilian Shields, Reviving Debate
GAZA CITY — Militant rockets can be seen launching from crowded neighborhoods, near apartment buildings, schools and hotels. Hamas fighters have set traps for Israeli soldiers in civilian homes and stored weapons in mosques and schools. Tunnels have been dug beneath private property.

With international condemnation rising over the death toll in Gaza exceeding 650 in the war’s 16th day, Israel points to its adversaries’ practice of embedding forces throughout the crowded, impoverished coastal enclave of 1.7 million people.

“Hamas uses schools, residential buildings, mosques and hospitals to fire rockets at Israeli civilians,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told his Canadian counterpart in a call over the weekend, according to a statement from Mr. Netanyahu’s office. “Hamas uses innocent civilians as a human shield for terrorist activity.”

Nothing is ever so clear in the complex and often brutal calculus of urban warfare. There is no evidence that Hamas and other militants force civilians to stay in areas that are under attack. But it is indisputable that Gaza militants operate in civilian areas, draw return fire to civilian structures, and on some level benefit in the diplomatic arena from the rising casualties. They also have at times encouraged residents not to flee their homes when alerted by Israel to a pending strike and, having prepared extensively for war, did not build civilian bomb shelters.

 

[Shusha]

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Not necessarily. The presence of protected persons at a military objective does not render that military objective invalid.

An residential apartment building inhabited by noncombatant families is not a military objective. It's amazing the lengths you go to to justify Israel's actions.

Unless there is something in the building which makes it a military objective.

 

[louie888]

Targeting family homes is targeting families.

Not necessarily. The presence of protected persons at a military objective does not render that military objective invalid.

An residential apartment building inhabited by noncombatant families is not a military objective. It's amazing the lengths you go to to justify Israel's actions.

Unless there is something in the building which makes it a military objective.

Shusha

Collective punishment IS A WAR CRIME!

YES OR NO?

 

[Shusha]

Of course it is.

Israel commits it when it tears down the homes of the families of terrorists.

Arab Palestinians commit it when they prevent Jewish freedom of religious worship, when they attack Israeli civilians (or when they claim there is no such thing), when they refuse citizenship based on religious affiliation, when they create laws making it illegal to sell property to Jews.

Military operations are not collective punishment. Border controls are not collective punishment. Metal detectors are not collective punishment. Blockades are not collective punishment.

 

[louie888]

Of course it is.

You should have quit there.

Arab Palestinians commit it

NO, they don't and never have.