Collective punishment IS A WAR CRIME!

[Hollie]

part of the problem is the people calling "foul" when it comes to "collective" punishment
are just as guilty of supporting the same when it comes to defending their side.

Please explain what you mean here.

Israel has been found guilty of collective punishment, a war crime, more times than we can count.

At the same time, the Palestinians do not even have the ability, let alone the mentality, to collectively punish their criminal slave masters.

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

"Facts are facts".

That's funny Habib, as you presented no facts.

Might I suggest you go outside and play in traffic?

 

[louie888]

emilynghiem

I took the liberty of googling just that for you and the results speak for themselves.

Not one story on the Palestinians collectively punishing the israelis, but a plethora on just the opposite.

palestine collective punishmnet against israel - Google Search

 

[emilynghiem]

part of the problem is the people calling "foul" when it comes to "collective" punishment
are just as guilty of supporting the same when it comes to defending their side.

Please explain what you mean here.

Israel has been found guilty of collective punishment, a war crime, more times than we can count.

At the same time, the Palestinians do not even have the ability, let alone the mentality, to collectively punish their criminal slave masters.

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

 

[louie888]

part of the problem is the people calling "foul" when it comes to "collective" punishment
are just as guilty of supporting the same when it comes to defending their side.

Please explain what you mean here.

Israel has been found guilty of collective punishment, a war crime, more times than we can count.

At the same time, the Palestinians do not even have the ability, let alone the mentality, to collectively punish their criminal slave masters.

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

 

[emilynghiem]

part of the problem is the people calling "foul" when it comes to "collective" punishment
are just as guilty of supporting the same when it comes to defending their side.

Please explain what you mean here.

Israel has been found guilty of collective punishment, a war crime, more times than we can count.

At the same time, the Palestinians do not even have the ability, let alone the mentality, to collectively punish their criminal slave masters.

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with "due process.: Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the GENERAL context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first
BEFORE issuing judgement or punishemnt.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

If you want to haggle over the letter of the law, good luck with that.
It is never going to be a fair assessment because
the Jews have an organized govt under an Israeli state,
but the Palestinians don't have an official state or govt.

So you will never be able to define the war and violence
going on using just what the OFFICIAL govt does
because the Palestinians don't have one!!!

 

[louie888]

Please explain what you mean here.

Israel has been found guilty of collective punishment, a war crime, more times than we can count.

At the same time, the Palestinians do not even have the ability, let alone the mentality, to collectively punish their criminal slave masters.

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

????

WHAT? louie888
I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

Our only disagreement is that you aren't counting
the TERRORIST violence as COLLECTIVE punishment
"because it's not an official govt sponsored policy"
so it cannot compare to Israel that is instituting this through an OFFICIAL govt.

Shame on you.
Do you understand you are discounting all the TERRORISM
as "not being part of that equation"

How can you do that?
When the TERRORISM is what the govt is using to JUSTIFY
collective punishment, including arguments even against
the US policy that Trump promotes regarding travel bans.
That's a form of "collective" punishment abridging liberty
of law abiding people who happen to be from those target countries.

But BOTH are in RESPONSE to GENERAL TERRORIST THREATS
which ARE A FORM OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT.

I understand you only count OFFICIAL GOVT policy as collective punishment. I am using the broader SPIRIT of the concept
to count TERRORIST regimes and campaigns that AREN'T from an official govt.

 

[louie888]

I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

That is why I asked you to look up what the war crime of collective punishment is.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear louie888 both the peaceful Palestinians and the peaceful Jews are victims of the collective punishment.

The Palestinians supporting terrorist acts against innocent victims
is a form of collective punishment. It is a protest lashing out against society
and not caring who gets killed in order to make a political statement.

Yes, there are as many peaceloving Muslims and Jews appalled by
any such acts of war and terrorism. So these are equal vicitms of
the violence of others.

But the violence is not one sided.

The conflict is killing people on both sides.

The conflict is mutual and cannot be blamed on just one side.
If anything there are at least 3 or 4 sides when you add the political
coercion added by people taking sides.

You cannot say this is just one sided and blame the Jews.
That is COLLECTIVE punishment and judgment to do that.
each person is responsible for our part in taking sides
and undermining the peace effort.

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

Okay i get it louie888 and no I do not agree with you.
By your definition, terrorism does not count as an "official" war crime because it's not an "official" govt doing it.
So you don't count any such acts in the equation when assessing justice.

I am looking at the BROADER laws of justice, of karma, of cause and effect,
and reaping what we sow. So ALL acts add to this larger equation in life.

I am looking at the whole spiritual spectrum.
You are just cherry picking legalistically by the letter of the law.

sorry louie but you are not going to solve the problem of terrorism
and religious/political abuse that way. when you are dealing with
human nature, we are talking about the whole of humanity and the entire process we are going through together.
not just govt.

 

[montelatici]

How is attacking the occupation forces collective punishment. Were the French Resistance practicing collective punishment when they attacked and killed German and Vichy soldiers, police and officials? Often killing civilians when they bombed restaurants, bars and movie theaters?

 

[emilynghiem]

I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

That is why I asked you to look up what the war crime of collective punishment is.

I am talking about this:

Collective punishment is a form of retaliation whereby a suspected perpetrator's family members, friends, acquaintances, sect, neighbors or entire ethnic group is targeted. The punished group may often have no direct association with the other individuals or groups, or direct control over their actions.

And I am saying the terrorists are doing this,
which is causing the reaction of strong armed response that
is going to be overly broad and ends up punishing the innocent along with the guilty.

It is in RESPONSE to the terrorism.

You seem to assume the terrorism is in response to the oppression by govt.

I am saying they go in a vicious cycle, each inciting and perpetrating this equally.

Peace is never made by blaming one side louie888

It happens when the people on both sides reach out as equals and stop the
violent reaction to conflicts.

If you continue to frame this onesided, you are IN SPIRIT
following the same pattern as collective punishment.
You are blaming the Jewish/Israeli side BY ASSOCIATION
instead of holding each person accountable. So that is
the BASIS of how collective punishment starts, by targeting GROUPS by LABEL.

So that is what I am opposing.

 

[louie888]

Okay i get it louie888 and no I do not agree with you.
By your definition, terrorism does not count as an "official" war crime because it's not an "official" govt doing it.
So you don't count any such acts in the equation when assessing justice.

No, I only pointed out that the Palestinians have never collectively punished the israelis and whether you wish to label them as "terrorists" or "freedom fighters" is irrelevant.

am looking at the BROADER laws of justice, of karma, of cause and effect,
and reaping what we sow. So ALL acts add to this larger equation in life.

I am looking at the whole spiritual spectrum.
You are just cherry picking legalistically by the letter of the law.

Karma is great and all, but this thread IS ABOUT THE LEGAL ISSUE. I Have cherry-picked nothing.

sorry louie but you are not going to solve the problem of terrorism
and religious/political abuse that way. when you are dealing with
human nature, we are talking about the whole of humanity and the entire process we are going through together.
not just govt.

I am not trying to. You made a statement that was wrong. I showed you that. That is what we do here.

Have Palestinians committed crimes against israelis as retaliation to their homes being stolen and therm being locked behind walls, being collectively punished? Yes, absolutely.

Have they collectively punished the israelis? No, simply no.

 

[louie888]

If you continue to frame this onesided, you are IN SPIRIT
following the same pattern as collective punishment.
You are blaming the Jewish/Israeli side BY ASSOCIATION
instead of holding each person accountable. So that is
the BASIS of how collective punishment starts, by targeting GROUPS by LABEL.

So that is what I am opposing.

I should say the leaders of israel instead of the israelis... that's fair.

 

[Roudy]

How is attacking the occupation forces collective punishment. Were the French Resistance practicing collective punishment when they attacked and killed German and Vichy soldiers, police and officials? Often killing civilians when they bombed restaurants, bars and movie theaters?

Eh, blowing up a bunch of women and kids isn't "attacking occupation forces". It's being a fucking Palestinian terrorist animal.

 

[montelatici]

How is attacking the occupation forces collective punishment. Were the French Resistance practicing collective punishment when they attacked and killed German and Vichy soldiers, police and officials? Often killing civilians when they bombed restaurants, bars and movie theaters?

Eh, blowing up a bunch of women and kids isn't "attacking occupation forces". It's being a fucking Palestinian terrorist animal.

Most casualties caused by the Palestinians are occupation military or police forces. Most casualties caused by the Israelis are civilians.

 

[Roudy]

How is attacking the occupation forces collective punishment. Were the French Resistance practicing collective punishment when they attacked and killed German and Vichy soldiers, police and officials? Often killing civilians when they bombed restaurants, bars and movie theaters?

Eh, blowing up a bunch of women and kids isn't "attacking occupation forces". It's being a fucking Palestinian terrorist animal.

Most casualties caused by the Palestinians are occupation military or police forces. Most casualties caused by the Israelis are civilians.

So wait, you are totally ignoring that the Palestinian engage primarily in terrorist activities against civilian targets because those, not military, are the only one's that are susceptible to attacks by the animals? fuck off.

 

[montelatici]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

 

[Hollie]

How is attacking the occupation forces collective punishment. Were the French Resistance practicing collective punishment when they attacked and killed German and Vichy soldiers, police and officials? Often killing civilians when they bombed restaurants, bars and movie theaters?

Eh, blowing up a bunch of women and kids isn't "attacking occupation forces". It's being a fucking Palestinian terrorist animal.

Most casualties caused by the Palestinians are occupation military or police forces. Most casualties caused by the Israelis are civilians.

Most civilian islamo-casualties are the result of Islamic terrorists waging war from civilian areas.

You really do like parading dead islamo-bodies around.

 

[Roudy]

Most of the casualties the Palestinians cause are military, most of the casualties the Israelis cause are civilian. Your dog won't hunt.

That's a nice way to dodge the fact that Palestinians primarily target innocent civilians, intentionally.

Cyber jihad propaganda fail.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I get it, Emily. You believe that. But, facts are facts. The israel government is guilty daily of collective punishment against Palestinians.

I think we all agree there.

Now, what collective punishment has been dealt out by the Palestinian government?

????
How can the Palestinians have a Govt
when they don't even have an organized state.

There is factioning going on where
the women and communities suffering at the
bottom aren't represented or served by the
Palestinian leadership that rallies for power.

So which people are you talking about?

The reason the Israeli govt has to take such a strong armed stance
is because of the factioning and lack of control to reign in the mix of
Islamic terrorism in with the peaceful Palestinians who don't want violence.

So I think you and I would agree that the PEACEFUL Muslims and Palestinians
aren't the problem but are victims of the very regimes they are blamed for.

The problem is louie888 because there IS NO organized
official govt that the terrorist groups are under, then when the Govts
respond to these terrorist threats, they end up collectively punishing mass people.

But that's who they are responding to.

Whatever you want to call the TERRORIST attackers and plotters,
THAT is the group that is collectively punishing others and then
reaping collective punishment in return on all blamed, innocent or guilty,
for those attacks.

You cannot compare these TERRORIST powers to an organized govt
because they are not an official nation. But that's who the Israeli
and also the US govt under Bush and now Trump are trying to respond to.

You cannot compare the two.

Or you will collectively blame and punish "all the Palestinian people"
for what the terrorists are doing and calling for.

That's not fair. But that's what we're left with because of the
political HIJACKING by anti-Israeli instead of pro-peacemakers,
which has gotten the Palestinians labeled as pro-terrorist which isn't an official govt.

Before you claimed that the collective punishment goes both ways. I showed you that that is not the case. You were wrong.

Now you are arguing something completely different.

Please look up what collective punishment means before responding again so we may stay on topic.

If you are talking about LEGALISTICALLY What it means
that is not the same context I am talking about. Sorry.

Same with due process. Due process by legal terms is
not the same as the general context of blaming, judging
and punishing people without first confronting them directly
and going through the process of PROVING who did what wrong first.

So the GENERAL concept of "collective punishment" is
where I am saying the laws of karma work.

Again, I am not arguing that. You previously claimed that the war crime of collective punishment goes both ways. Now, it appears you have seen the light, you have realized that that simply is not the case and we agree now.

????

WHAT? louie888
I am STILL saying that the UNOFFICIAL militant actions
of terrorists and jihadists IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT
and this goes back and forth
with what you are arguing the Israeli govt is doing.

Our only disagreement is that you aren't counting
the TERRORIST violence as COLLECTIVE punishment
"because it's not an official govt sponsored policy"
so it cannot compare to Israel that is instituting this through an OFFICIAL govt.

Shame on you.
Do you understand you are discounting all the TERRORISM
as "not being part of that equation"

How can you do that?
When the TERRORISM is what the govt is using to JUSTIFY
collective punishment, including arguments even against
the US policy that Trump promotes regarding travel bans.
That's a form of "collective" punishment abridging liberty
of law abiding people who happen to be from those target countries.

But BOTH are in RESPONSE to GENERAL TERRORIST THREATS
which ARE A FORM OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT.

I understand you only count OFFICIAL GOVT policy as collective punishment. I am using the broader SPIRIT of the concept
to count TERRORIST regimes and campaigns that AREN'T from an official govt.

The Palestinians do not violate any international law.