Civil War in the USA?

[Rozman]

Later in the week I will open a discussion on the impending Zombie takeover of the world.
Have a nice night...

 

[Vandalshandle]

Later in the week I will open a discussion on the impending Zombie takeover of the world.
Have a nice night...

I'm pretty sure that has already started, with infiltration into the NRA and CPAC.

 

[westwall]

Actually, as the far right militia groups and their fervent glorification of religious cults (such as is evidenced in the Waco incident), culminating in the Oklahoma City federal building bombing is probably much closer to anything actually resembling domestic armed insurgency and rebellion than anything that happened in the '60s.

No, IMO. Way too small an insurgent group. You have to have more people involved than that, and less ......obviously radical and violent.

The '60s near-miss was almost all college students, a very mainstream population (which is why the openly communist leaders got nowhere with their doctrines: we just wanted to stop the war).

And the French Revolution was wholly initiated by intellectuals, doctors, lawyers, clergy, and other well-educated ....idiots.

It got out of hand, and the mob ruled and the crazies and power-hungry who grabbed power. Hundreds of thousands died by guillotine, drowning, and civil war.

Such a problem in revolutions..... Stalin. It will happen here, too.

I think you underestimate the underground swelling and support that the "race war" militias had (and have) among the far right, which actually has several political infrastructure "friendlies" and alliances (Tea party, fundamental Christian zealots, and every other fringe right radical group - KKK, NeoNazis, etc.,) as well as a substantial business community/economic influence and support. Of course, revolutions rarely go as those who aspire to them have designed and planned,...luckily.

Yes, the Southern Poverty law Center has made millions off of suckers with this mantra. The reality is the VAST majority of KK types are lazy bums who would rather watch TV and
swill beer.

A good friend of mine was the head of the ATF office in Fresno and they infiltrated a guy into the local KKK. After a few weeks he had been made the grand pooba and they had discovered that the only people actually doing anything in the group were the various undercover law enforcement people that had been infiltrated before the ATF got around to doing it.

They were and are a joke. The vast majority of those clowns are jokes.

 

[Dragonlady]

My ex-roommate was a survivalist, right-wing kook. We needed to stock pile supplies for the coming apocalyse. Him and his buddies used to get together, drink beer, swap back issues of Soldier of Fortune, and talk about going to Africa to shoot terrorists. The biggest deterent to this plan was that the terrorists were likely to shoot back.

A lot of right-wing types are like these guys. It's one thing to go into the woods with your buddies and try to live off the land for a weekend, and a whole other matter to talk about armed insurrection against the government of the United States. Things would have to have gone to complete hell in a handbasket before that would ever happen.

 

[idb]

No, IMO. Way too small an insurgent group. You have to have more people involved than that, and less ......obviously radical and violent.

The '60s near-miss was almost all college students, a very mainstream population (which is why the openly communist leaders got nowhere with their doctrines: we just wanted to stop the war).

And the French Revolution was wholly initiated by intellectuals, doctors, lawyers, clergy, and other well-educated ....idiots.

It got out of hand, and the mob ruled and the crazies and power-hungry who grabbed power. Hundreds of thousands died by guillotine, drowning, and civil war.

Such a problem in revolutions..... Stalin. It will happen here, too.

I think you underestimate the underground swelling and support that the "race war" militias had (and have) among the far right, which actually has several political infrastructure "friendlies" and alliances (Tea party, fundamental Christian zealots, and every other fringe right radical group - KKK, NeoNazis, etc.,) as well as a substantial business community/economic influence and support. Of course, revolutions rarely go as those who aspire to them have designed and planned,...luckily.

Yes, the Southern Poverty law Center has made millions off of suckers with this mantra. The reality is the VAST majority of KK types are lazy bums who would rather watch TV and
will beer.

A good friend of mine was the head of the ATF office in Fresno and they infiltrated a guy into the local KKK. After a few weeks he had been made the grand pooba and they had discovered that the only people actually doing anything in the group were the various undercover law enforcement people that had been infiltrated before the ATF got around to doing it.

They were and are a joke. The vast majority of those clowns are jokes.

That sounds like a great Mel Brooks movie...Blazing Pillow Slips, if you will.

 

[SayMyName]

A lot of dissafected Americans believe that a civil war or secession of one or more states is coming the USA.

Is this just the normal level of political malcontention, or is something new and significant taking place?

Should we really fear a large group of extremist Americans, say 10,000 or so, taking up arms against the govt?

I believe that it is going to happen. Thomas Jefferson even said that it would be a good thing for the country every generation.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a thing.

People who believe in living to the best of their abilities and talents without bothering their neighbors should not continue to be preyed upon by those who will not do the same, and at the same time receive government help in this malevolence.

 

[Circe]

The ONLY people I see talking about civil war are the conservatives who are dissatisfied that people won't vote for their corporatist candidates. Conservatism is a failed ideology which has nearly destroyed the world economy but conservatives have been so brainwashed into believing that the poor are the problem and greed is good, that they are willing to vote against their own self-interests. Liberals are not voting for "free stuff", they're voting against an agenda which transfers wealth upward.

The people I see talking revolution, are angry white people who hate it that a black man is president.

You are mistaken: the first were the Occupy Wall Street types who tried to start leftist, communist, anarchist revolts in several American cities.

Revolution talk comes from both sides.

 

[SayMyName]

The ONLY people I see talking about civil war are the conservatives who are dissatisfied that people won't vote for their corporatist candidates. Conservatism is a failed ideology which has nearly destroyed the world economy but conservatives have been so brainwashed into believing that the poor are the problem and greed is good, that they are willing to vote against their own self-interests. Liberals are not voting for "free stuff", they're voting against an agenda which transfers wealth upward.

The people I see talking revolution, are angry white people who hate it that a black man is president.

You are mistaken: the first were the Occupy Wall Street types who tried to start leftist, communist, anarchist revolts in several American cities.

Revolution talk comes from both sides.

I would add, that if the guns of government allow you to take from your neighbors all that you want, or you raise children to go out and steal regularly from your neighbors, of course you wouldn't be advocating a change of this system.

But, if you believe in working hard in life and taking personal responsibility for your actions, then a government that would want to take from you that which is yours, could be very well seen as an enemy, or at least an accomplice in crime for those that do seek to take from you, just because they will not do on their own.

 

[Flopper]

Civil War in the United States, the wealthiest, most powerful, nation on earth with the highest household income, the best housed and best fed in the world? That would be a first.

 

[JohnL.Burke]

This country has always been a hotbed of unrest and dissatisfaction. That's who we are. I don't see any civil wars heading our way.

 

[FA_Q2]

Civil War in the United States, the wealthiest, most powerful, nation on earth with the highest household income, the best housed and best fed in the world? That would be a first.

We are the wealthiest and the most powerful but far from the highest income, best housed or fed. That title tends to go to small nations that have resources far outstripping the population (mostly oil nations).

Besides that, it is not uncommon for the world’s powerful and rich countries to go into revolt when the government no longer cares for its people. Power, prestige and wealth have almost nothing to do with an insurrection. You do realize that when we revolted the British Empire was the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet.

No, we will not revolt anytime soon but that is because of the 2 of the things you mention: we are housed and fed. More importantly, we are comfortable. I do find it interesting that people can believe an insurrection imminent when we can’t get more than a third of the eligible people actually voting. THAT tells you exactly how apathetic the American people really are. IF we were ready for a revolt, you would see voting numbers close to the 90 percent range if not more. If you do not care enough to walk out of your hose and press a button for change, you sure as hell are not going to get off the couch and get shot to death for it.

 

[Flopper]

Civil War in the United States, the wealthiest, most powerful, nation on earth with the highest household income, the best housed and best fed in the world? That would be a first.

We are the wealthiest and the most powerful but far from the highest income, best housed or fed. That title tends to go to small nations that have resources far outstripping the population (mostly oil nations).

Besides that, it is not uncommon for the world’s powerful and rich countries to go into revolt when the government no longer cares for its people. Power, prestige and wealth have almost nothing to do with an insurrection. You do realize that when we revolted the British Empire was the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet.

No, we will not revolt anytime soon but that is because of the 2 of the things you mention: we are housed and fed. More importantly, we are comfortable. I do find it interesting that people can believe an insurrection imminent when we can’t get more than a third of the eligible people actually voting. THAT tells you exactly how apathetic the American people really are. IF we were ready for a revolt, you would see voting numbers close to the 90 percent range if not more. If you do not care enough to walk out of your hose and press a button for change, you sure as hell are not going to get off the couch and get shot to death for it.

The US has the highest annual total personal income per capita in world.
List of countries by per capita personal income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was addressing only civil war not revolution. A civil war is a war is between citizens of the same country. A revolution is a war fought to overthrow or rid yourself of a government in order to establish a new one. Revolutions between a wealthy mother country and it's possessions are common but civil war within a wealthy nation where most of it's citizens enjoy are relatively high income, standard of living, and personal freedom are rare.

 

[FA_Q2]

Interesting. The information though is terrible as it is only a few countries and the time table is completely random. Wiki is not a viable source either and trying to check the numbers against the BEA website that it sources is not helping much. I don’t see international numbers there. I know that as far as income per capita goes, the US is 7th.
20 countries with highest per capita income - Rediff.com Business

Either way, it really does not have much of a difference in either of our points. You try and make a distinction between revolution and civil war though and that distinction is false. The difference is in the victor and nothing else. Had the south won the civil war it would have been known as the second revolutionary war. Had England won the revolutionary war, it would have been known as a civil war.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

what makes you think govt. employees and soldiers of the USA would wage war against their own people without good reason?

It's already happening, do a quick google search for "swat tactics gone wrong" and you will find hundreds of examples of police using military tactics on law abiding citizens (or, citizens with minor, non-violent infractions).

Radley Balko of the Wall Street Journal says it best in his recent article titled "Rise of the Warrior Cop". Read that for a better understanding...

Yes ladies and gentlemen, the government has declared "war" on drugs, poverty, and bambi savers....and you can get caught in the middle.

If a police force were to break in my door right now then I would be killed, and likely one (or more) of them would be as well. I live in a relatively high crime area (gang activity) and I ALWAYS have a gun nearby to protect my family. If somebody comes crashing through my door, they are getting shot.

In the old days a policeman with a warrant would knock on your door, be in appropriate police attire, show his/her identification, and then show you the warrant.

Now they come busting in your door with MP4 rifles, laser sights, flash bangs a popping, black tactical gear, and violate your rights before you even know who they are.

The worst report of this lately is when they used these tactics to raid an ANIMAL SHELTER because they were....get this....HARBORING BAMBI!. What is the "risk" involved in going up to the animal shelter door, knocking on it, showing the search warrant, and then finding the illegal "bambi"? None.....but when policia have expensive toys, they want to use them.

 

[lobato1]

Starting with my secessionist Texas Governor Rick Perry that had questioned candidate Obama’s "American Patriotism" & then once we Americans have elected Prez Obama as president:

"These same guys want to secede."

​

Best Regards

Lobato1

A lot of dissafected Americans believe that a civil war or secession of one or more states is coming the USA.

Is this just the normal level of political malcontention, or is something new and significant taking place?

Should we really fear a large group of extremist Americans, say 10,000 or so, taking up arms against the govt?

 

[JohnL.Burke]

Starting with my secessionist Texas Governor Rick Perry that had questioned candidate Obama’s "American Patriotism" & then once we Americans have elected Prez Obama as president:

"These same guys want to secede."

​

Best Regards

Lobato1

A lot of dissafected Americans believe that a civil war or secession of one or more states is coming the USA.

Is this just the normal level of political malcontention, or is something new and significant taking place?

Should we really fear a large group of extremist Americans, say 10,000 or so, taking up arms against the govt?

I certainly enjoy the parroting of far left wing sites and dishonest forms of activist "journalism" you seem to be misguided by, but Rich Perry does not nor ever has said he was for succession.
Just thought I would throw a fact bomb your way for funsies.

 

[lobato1]

Some of us remember his 2009 BS:

Speaking at an anti-tax protest yesterday (Apr. 16, 2009), Texas governor brought up the fact that:

"Texas had the right to secede from the union if things in Washington got bad enough."


​

My Reference: Rick Perry Discusses Secession - Business Insider

​

BTW:
Texas doesn't have a right to secession.


Best Regards

Lobato1

Starting with my secessionist Texas Governor Rick Perry that had questioned candidate Obama’s "American Patriotism" & then once we Americans have elected Prez Obama as president:

"These same guys want to secede."

​

Best Regards

Lobato1

A lot of dissafected Americans believe that a civil war or secession of one or more states is coming the USA.

Is this just the normal level of political malcontention, or is something new and significant taking place?

Should we really fear a large group of extremist Americans, say 10,000 or so, taking up arms against the govt?

I certainly enjoy the parroting of far left wing sites and dishonest forms of activist "journalism" you seem to be misguided by, but Rich Perry does not nor ever has said he was for succession.
Just thought I would throw a fact bomb your way for funsies.

 

[JohnL.Burke]

Thanks again for the left wing talking points. I certainly appreciated the quotes from Perry that were featured in the Business Insider. Oh wait! There weren't any!

http://www.politifact.com/texas/article/2011/aug/19/rick-perry-and-secession/

 

[lobato1]

& in my Secessionist Texas Governor Rick Perry’s words not mine:

When we came into the nation in 1845, we were a republic, we were a stand-alone nation, & one of the deals was, we can leave anytime we want.

“So we’re kind of thinking about that again” ​

My Reference: Rick Perry Wants Texas to Secede from the United States | Rowdy Pulpit


& since you didn’t like my previous Business Insider’s reference feel free to use any of these other references: http://search.yahoo.com/search?n=10...kind+of+thinking+about+that+again"+-obama&vs=


​

Best Regards

Lobato1

Thanks again for the left wing talking points. I certainly appreciated the quotes from Perry that were featured in the Business Insider. Oh wait! There weren't any!

PolitiFact | Rick Perry and secession

 

[PaulS1950]

The right to leave is listed in the state's constitution and it was accepted by the feds......

It looks to me like they have that right.

It's not a big deal though because the constitution does not grant the federal government the power to prevent such an act and the tenth amendment gives all powers not specifically granted to the feds by the constitution to the states unless it is specifically denied to the states by the constitution and then it remains a power of the people.

The civil war was unconstitutional for two primary reasons:
1. The federal government did not have the power to force states to remain in the union.
2. War was declared without the proper majority of congressional approval.

The supreme court ruling is also bogus because the constitution doesn't give the court that power.

The whole issue is a moot point because we are living in a oligarchy instead of the republic which was founded. We no longer have any rights - they have become privileges that are granted at the grace of the federal government.

Welcome to the United Socialist America!