Libertarianism

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Quantum Windbag, Jun 22, 2013.

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  1. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    I am a bit tired of all the experts on libertarianism telling me everything libertarians don't believe. To finally put an end to that I decided to start this thread to prove everyone wrong. Lay out your favorite criticism of libertarians, and I will find a libertarian that says the same thing. Point out something libertarians don't think about and I will find the libertarian that not only thought about it, he wrote about it.

    Feel free to disagree with their ideals, but don't pretend to be an expert until you have actually read everything they have to say.
     
  2. oldfart
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    oldfart Older than dirt

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    I suggest that you have chosen a fool's errand. There is no way any one person can be cognizant of everything everyone who calls themselves a "libertarian" (or any other political label) has written. You are inviting an acrimonious and never-ending bitchfest about who is a "true libertarian". Better to state and defend what you believe and leave others to speak for themselves.
     
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  3. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    Even before the internet I could have done this because I know how to find things.

    I am not trying to defend true libertarianism, I am trying to prove that people who pretend they actually studied libertarianism and came to a reasoned and well thought out conclusion based on their research didn't actually do that. So far no one has even tried to prove me wrong.
     
  4. PaulS1950
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    PaulS1950 Senior Member

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    All you have to do is go to the Libertarian party website and compare their platform to the other political platform. To summarize the Libertarian Point of View:

    1.0 Personal Liberty

    Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.



    2.0 Economic Liberty

    Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.



    3.0 Securing Liberty

    The protection of individual rights is the only proper purpose of government. Government is constitutionally limited so as to prevent the infringement of individual rights by the government itself. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide the relationships between governments.



    4.0 Omissions

    Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval
     
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  5. Two Thumbs
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    Two Thumbs Platinum Member

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    No matter who is getting slaughtered outside the US, libers will not want us to send any kind of aide.

    I find that to be cold. I don't understand how anyone, with any morals, can turn their backs on children in the crossfire b/c the most powerful and greatest nation ever will have to spend money.
     
  6. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 Gold Member

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    My one complaint would be the intermingling of anarco-capitalists calling themselves libertarians.

    Unfortunately for me, they actually do fall into the libertarian political worldview BUT it gets confusing when dealing with those that are not libertarians because they want to lump ALL libertarians into anarco-capitalist views when that is clearly not true.

    The number of times that I have seen people demand that libertarianism and anarchy are essentially the same thing is staggering. A complete misrepresentation of the underlying concepts.
     
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  7. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    THIS is a great idea, QW.

    Anybody can practically say anything for or against LIBERTARIANISM since there is NO AUTHORIZED AUTHORITY to define what libertarianism really is, what it really believes, etc.

    I've know libertarians who were basically heartless misanthops, who clearly had no idea how humans actually think or work, and who cling to this LABEL merely as a cover to give their hatred for ALL HUMANS some philosophical cover.

    Then too I've known or read things from people ALSO claiming to be Libertarians that made great sense.

    So when someone tells me they are libertarian, that tells me exactly NOTHING about what they REALLY are.

    I can and DO say the same of people claiming to be liberals, or conservatives, incidently.

    These labels really mean nothing you or I can truly depend on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013
  8. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    The trouble with that approach is the Libertarian Party does NOT speak for all people calling themselves libertarians.

    It is perfectly competenet to speak for itself and its members, but it does NOT define the entire class of people calling themselves LIBERTARIANS.
     
  9. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Yup.

    I have been guilty of that, myself since the first people I met who claimed to be libertarians also were Randian school objectivist libertarians.

    They did not believe in any form of government AT ALL.

    Now in my wold view, those people are called ANARCHISTS.

    Only in the world there are people who call call themselves ANARCHISTS who are basically crypto communists.

    POLITICAL LABELS...these do NOT serve any of us, folks.

    They are mostly DESIGNED to confuse us rather than help us.

    It is NOT until one gets down to specific policies that one can begin to truly understand what person REALLY is.

    POLITICAL LABELS are worse than worthless since they confuse us into thinking that people are what they are NOT
     
  10. PredFan
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    PredFan Platinum Member

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    I don't know why so many people have so much trouble with the concept that, like democrats and republicans, libertarians are composed of people who have variations on the same theme. One does not have to toe the libertarian party platform line completely in order to be a libertarian.

    But the OP is correct. Too many people here TOTALLY misunderstand Libertarians and there are too many threads building strawman armies misrepresenting Libertarians.
     
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