Church denies funeral to gay man

[Vandalshandle]

"Atheists who die atheists are in hell..."

Nope, Jeri. I have a reservation booked in my own little paradise.

 

[BillyP]

Gee a made up internet sign to hide behind. Gee, now we know what a weak little bitch you really are.

My bible says, God is angry with the wicked every day. What book are you reading?

Tales from the Great Spaghetti Monster.

Atheists who die atheists are in hell, Billy, as are Christians who hate someone and are bound in unforgiveness. ( which is where hate comes from in my belief - unforgiveness which leads to a root of bitterness and unbelief) . Neither one could enter the kingdom of heaven in such a state - according to the Word of God which is Truth. Tell Pastor Tate to read his bible.

I'm agnostic, I see no proof either way, for or against a god. Can't be any fairer than that. And can't be punished for it either. And I've read the bible, seen the movie... and still see no proof, just tales in a book really. And a lot of dumb shit too.

 

[ChrisL]

And the Christians wonder why people are leaving them behind in droves??? It's because a lot of them are just mean nasty people who think they are better than everyone else and treat other people like crap, but they are really JUST judgmental assholes and hypocrites. Some of you sure don't seem like "Christians" to me. I think the devil has you fooled.

God Loves Sinners

I am saddened by the hatred that some professed “Christians” have for the unsaved. It is tragic. Yes, God hates sin and the wrath of God abides upon Christ-rejecters (John 3:36); but let us never stray from the great Biblical doctrine of God's wondrous love for mankind, which allowed Christ to be nailed to the cross for our sins. John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Notice the words, "God so loved THE WORLD."

What I wrote a few minutes ago is to the church. Not the unbeliever, Chris. To be clear Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to save it! If Jesus did not come to condemn the world in that he did not come to judge them in their sins but rather provide the answer for the escape from it - then this is the call of the Christian. To warn the church - to most definitely warn the church - that if you are not doing what God has called you to as a Believer? You will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Believer is to share the good news with the world which does not know what Christ did for them. "Some" of the world has a false understanding of the work of the Cross in many instances - because the LORD has been misrepresented with the prosperity gospel while completely leaving out the true message of holiness, repentance, forgiveness, loving our enemy - doing good to those who hate us - this has been left out - why? Because there are few laborers, Chris. Few. Jesus said so. The laborers are few! How many laborers do you see on this board, Chris? How many people do you see claiming to be believers in Jesus Christ? Where are they spending their time? How many sermons do they put up? How much christian music, sermons, testimonies do you see being put up? Why not? Why not put up evidence of what you believe so others may believe too?

Here is the truth, Chris. We say we want heaven but the truth is - we don't want it enough to part with Egypt. Still living in Egypt, hanging on to the relatives and their parties and all that the world does and then have the nerve to tell them, we are going to heaven and you are not. ( because you didn't say the magic prayer or keep the Sabbath like we do ) No, Chris. The truth is the Sabbath keeping and holy day keeping is under the law. Tithing is under the law. Loving your neighbor as yourself, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not steal, those are fulfilled in Christ because if you walk in the Spirit you won't be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. It is not about our ability, Chris but about the LORD's ability and what He has made available to all mankind through the cross. That is the truth and for some a very inconvenient truth. Nevertheless, it is the truth! Every day is holy unto the LORD in my life - not any single day, Chris! Every day! Every day is the LORD's. I'm not taking any breaks from God! Who are these people? That is the question coming to my mind! If it offends some religious zealots maybe it is right for me to speak it out loud. Who knows? Maybe someone will come into contact their conscience about it. One can only hope.

Well, thank you for sharing your views on this subject.

 

[ChrisL]

Please, there are so many FAKE Christians running around, judging others, behaving as if they are better (when they are NOT), treating other human beings like crap because they don't agree with their lifestyle and then use their bible as an excuse. This is not what God or Jesus would want, I am quite SURE of that.

I agree!

That's why I asked the question before....

So you are in a Church, and a bunch of people join your church who don't believe what you and your church teaches. They live completely opposite of what you believe is right. They run around telling everyone they are part of your church, and everyone can see they are fake and hypocrites.

Everyone says "ChrisL is part of that hypocrite church. She's one of 'those' people"

So what would you suggest? You can't kick them out of your church, because this whole thread is all about you, and those with you, saying it's wrong for us to kick them out.

So what is your solution?

What would YOU do? Let them stay in the church, and have everyone accuse your church of being full of hypocrites? Just like you are accusing right now?

I think that most people who you would consider sinners and who do not wish to follow the rules of the church are probably not members of any church, and a person has to be pretty narrow-minded to condemn the whole for the actions of only a few.

Also, I think you are supposed to help people, not just throw them away like trash.

 

[ChrisL]

Gotta go to work now. I'll be back later though. I'm not done with this because when the church turned away this woman, they were HURTING her. They must know this. Anyone with an OUNCE of common sense would know this. I want to know what kind of people are capable of such coldheartedness.

The cruel people are the ones who think they can FORCE churches to accommodate those who attack the church, lie to clergy in order to trick them into lending their support, and who seek to force the church to perform actions that are in direct opposition with the beliefs of the congregation. They happen to be the same people who can justify killing the unborn, killing the bedridden, and burning the churches.

You have absolutely no evidence that anyone was lying. That is something that you have made up. Perhaps it was important to this woman to have her son buried in this manner. You don't judge a person who has just lost her child because she may not even be thinking clearly and may still even be in shock over the loss of her child.

 

[ChrisL]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"Atheists who die atheists are in hell..."

Nope, Jeri. I have a reservation booked in my own little paradise.

You are coming to heaven with me even if I have to drag you in by your toes, Vandal. You are in my prayers. Seriously. You are.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

 

[ChrisL]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Personally, I don't really believe in that kind of stuff. The pastor probably found out by word of mouth is what I'm thinking is more likely.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You don't have to respond to it. Just realize that just as you would see people getting knowledge from a demon about something - or someone who channels spirits ( also demons ) - there is a spirit realm - so with that said there are angels such as Michael who ministered to Daniel and told him what was going on during a time Daniel was in prayer - then there were other instances where Paul immediately knew something by the Spirit of God - or the discerning of spirits - one of the 9 gifts - or sometimes it is a word of knowledge - another of the 9 gifts - the Spirit of God just lets a Believer know something in order to better pray for the person. Anything that God does - Satan pretty much tries to counterfeit but the difference being he is operating through principalities, powers of darkness, wickedness - whereas God speaks by His Holy Spirit - if that makes it easier to understand.

Bottom line is the goal of a believer is to pray for the individual and not put them under condemnation - I don't believe it is ever the will of God to create a situation of utter despair when someone is already feeling very down. My belief is that people should always be led by the Spirit of God and not their own "ideas" of how to handle a matter. That is best. Only God knows what is best - most healing - most beneficial to a person.

 

[Andylusion]

Please, there are so many FAKE Christians running around, judging others, behaving as if they are better (when they are NOT), treating other human beings like crap because they don't agree with their lifestyle and then use their bible as an excuse. This is not what God or Jesus would want, I am quite SURE of that.

I agree!

That's why I asked the question before....

So you are in a Church, and a bunch of people join your church who don't believe what you and your church teaches. They live completely opposite of what you believe is right. They run around telling everyone they are part of your church, and everyone can see they are fake and hypocrites.

Everyone says "ChrisL is part of that hypocrite church. She's one of 'those' people"

So what would you suggest? You can't kick them out of your church, because this whole thread is all about you, and those with you, saying it's wrong for us to kick them out.

So what is your solution?

What would YOU do? Let them stay in the church, and have everyone accuse your church of being full of hypocrites? Just like you are accusing right now?

I think that most people who you would consider sinners and who do not wish to follow the rules of the church are probably not members of any church, and a person has to be pretty narrow-minded to condemn the whole for the actions of only a few.

Also, I think you are supposed to help people, not just throw them away like trash.

The person we're talking about in this thread, was going to that church. As we've said a hundred times... if you don't want to follow what the church believes, that's fine. But don't go there. If you go to a church, you should be going to a church that you believe in. Why go to a church you are completely against? No one is forcing you to go anywhere. But if you want the services of a church, like conducting a burial.... then you had better be going to a church whose doctrines you believe and follow. That's how you get those services.


When you help someone who doesn't want to be helped.... you are not helping. Jesus never helped anyone, who don't ask for his help, and do what he said to do.

If you have a brother-in-law who is an alcoholic, and because he's drinking away his mortgage payment, he's going to lose the house..... do you just give him money?

Well you should not. It's called 'enabling'. You are not helping him. You are just letting him be even more of a drunk than before, because now he knows you'll cover his mortgage payment.

We are more than willing to help absolutely anyone that comes looking for help. But help, means being willing to change your life, to stop living a wrong way.

Well you don't think it's wrong. Well that's fine. But if you come to us, this is what we believe.

"Well I want help, but I refuse to change".... sorry it doesn't work that way. Go read the Bible. G-d never helped anyone who refused to obey him. He said over and over if you follow his commands and obey his laws, he will bless you, and care for you, and protect you, and help you through your life. At the same time, he said if you don't.... oh well.

That's how life works. That's how G-d works. That's how Jesus worked. How many times did Jesus ask "do you believe?". Why? Because if they didn't, he didn't heal them.

And lastly, as far as people being narrow minded to blame the entire group, for the actions of a few....... have you not read some of these posts on this thread? I wish you could walk a mile in my shoes. People do that to me all the time. Constantly.

 

[Andylusion]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Personally, I don't really believe in that kind of stuff. The pastor probably found out by word of mouth is what I'm thinking is more likely.

I'm kinda with you on this.

Yes, obviously the parents knew.
Yes, I wager most pastors make it fairly clear what their position is on various topics, and thus the family likely knew the Church's position on homosexuality.

However, I don't think the parents were intentionally trying to 'trick the pastor' into doing something. I doubt it. It's not impossible, but I just doubt that.

Now I will say, that if this man's parents are Christian, then they too are in direct violation of Bible doctrine. A Christian is required by G-d, to submit themselves to the authority of the Church. When they got the call, they should have accepted it, and made alternate plans, and moved on with their life. They should not have gotten on TV, and attacked the Church.

Of course it's entirely possible that neither were Christian, in which case, that's not a problem.

As for the pastor having the 'spirit of revelation', I'm always skeptical of that.

Ironically, I too have had things that I just "knew". Things I can't explain why or how, but I just knew it. To explain them, it would take pages of writing, and I'd rather not, if for no other reason, than it makes me feel awkward telling people I knew something I can't explain, and shouldn't have known.

But those things I 'knew' were hardly specific enough like 'that guy in the corner over there, is gay'. That's some heavy revelation there. Again, possible? Sure. But I'm skeptical of that.

Now if the pastor by some 'revelation' or just word of mouth, discovered the guy was living a life style completely incompatible with the Church and Bible, then for the first time in this thread I would say the pastor was in error. He is guilty of creating this drama, by not dealing with it.

He should have met with the man, explained his life choices were not compatible with the Church, and Bible, and asked him to move on. The man would then have found a church compatible with his beliefs, and when he died, he would have been buried by them. None of this drama would have happened.

But I wager, none in the Church, or the pastor knew anything, until his marriage to his husband, was revealed in the paper. That's my bet.

Could be wrong. I've never been a pastor, so likely there are lots of things I don't know. But I don't meet many pastors that talking about divine revelation of things like this.

 

[ChrisL]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Personally, I don't really believe in that kind of stuff. The pastor probably found out by word of mouth is what I'm thinking is more likely.

I'm kinda with you on this.

Yes, obviously the parents knew.
Yes, I wager most pastors make it fairly clear what their position is on various topics, and thus the family likely knew the Church's position on homosexuality.

However, I don't think the parents were intentionally trying to 'trick the pastor' into doing something. I doubt it. It's not impossible, but I just doubt that.

As for the pastor having the 'spirit of revelation', I'm always skeptical of that.

Ironically, I too have had things that I just "knew". Things I can't explain why or how, but I just knew it. To explain them, it would take pages of writing, and I'd rather not, if for no other reason, than it makes me feel awkward telling people I knew something I can't explain, and shouldn't have known.

But those things I 'knew' were hardly specific enough like 'that guy in the corner over there, is gay'. That's some heavy revelation there. Again, possible? Sure. But I'm skeptical of that.

Now if the pastor by some 'revelation' or just word of mouth, discovered the guy was living a life style completely incompatible with the Church and Bible, then for the first time in this thread I would say the pastor was in error. He is guilty of creating this drama, by not dealing with it.

He should have met with the man, explained his life choices were not compatible with the Church, and Bible, and asked him to move on. The man would then have found a church compatible with his beliefs, and when he died, he would have been buried by them. None of this drama would have happened.

But I wager, none in the Church, or the pastor knew anything, until his marriage to his husband, was revealed in the paper. That's my bet.

Could be wrong. It's possible. I've never been a pastor, so likely there are lots of things I don't know. But I don't meet many pastors that talking about divine revelation of things like this.

Well, if he was an ACTIVE member of that church, how would he hide a spouse from everyone? He was married to another man according to the article, so I wonder what's up with that? Did the church know previously that he was gay and then just decided to not hold a funeral for this man? Was he excommunicated prior to his death?

 

[Andylusion]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Personally, I don't really believe in that kind of stuff. The pastor probably found out by word of mouth is what I'm thinking is more likely.

I'm kinda with you on this.

Yes, obviously the parents knew.
Yes, I wager most pastors make it fairly clear what their position is on various topics, and thus the family likely knew the Church's position on homosexuality.

However, I don't think the parents were intentionally trying to 'trick the pastor' into doing something. I doubt it. It's not impossible, but I just doubt that.

As for the pastor having the 'spirit of revelation', I'm always skeptical of that.

Ironically, I too have had things that I just "knew". Things I can't explain why or how, but I just knew it. To explain them, it would take pages of writing, and I'd rather not, if for no other reason, than it makes me feel awkward telling people I knew something I can't explain, and shouldn't have known.

But those things I 'knew' were hardly specific enough like 'that guy in the corner over there, is gay'. That's some heavy revelation there. Again, possible? Sure. But I'm skeptical of that.

Now if the pastor by some 'revelation' or just word of mouth, discovered the guy was living a life style completely incompatible with the Church and Bible, then for the first time in this thread I would say the pastor was in error. He is guilty of creating this drama, by not dealing with it.

He should have met with the man, explained his life choices were not compatible with the Church, and Bible, and asked him to move on. The man would then have found a church compatible with his beliefs, and when he died, he would have been buried by them. None of this drama would have happened.

But I wager, none in the Church, or the pastor knew anything, until his marriage to his husband, was revealed in the paper. That's my bet.

Could be wrong. It's possible. I've never been a pastor, so likely there are lots of things I don't know. But I don't meet many pastors that talking about divine revelation of things like this.

Well, if he was an ACTIVE member of that church, how would he hide a spouse from everyone? He was married to another man according to the article, so I wonder what's up with that? Did the church know previously that he was gay and then just decided to not hold a funeral for this man? Was he excommunicated prior to his death?

Well obviously, I wasn't there. But the article cited, said they found out when they read it in the paper, and started calling the Church.

If everyone knew... why would they wait until the last minute, to cancel? What would be the purpose of that? What benefit would be in that?

It says they had the church ready for the funeral. Now if their church is anything like my church, that's a ton of volunteer hours, working to ready the church for a funeral, all of which has to be undone for the next Sunday service.

So I'm in the church, working and preparing the church, for a funeral I know will be canceled at the last minute, and then everything will have to be undone, just for the purpose of...... what? Wasting my time?

Do you really think they did that to intentionally grief the family? For what purpose? They were secretly hoping the parents would be mad, and go to the media, so that they could have their pastor, and congregation, bombarded by the public? For what purpose?

That seems even less likely.

As for being active, and people not knowing about their personal lives.... that doesn't seem all that unlikely. I'm active in my Church, and I doubt many know I'm still single. Especially, if the man in question, knows the Church teaches against Homosexuality. It's highly likely he didn't share such information. Some people are really good liars, too. Not saying I know this guy was, but how many woman find out their husband was cheating for years, and never knew it. Some people are just gifted in lying.

 

[ChrisL]

]Well obviously, I wasn't there. But the article cited, said they found out when they read it in the paper, and started calling the Church.

If everyone knew... why would they wait until the last minute, to cancel? What would be the purpose of that? What benefit would be in that?

Who is "they," Androw?

I don't know why they would wait. That is why I asked.

It says they had the church ready for the funeral. Now if their church is anything like my church, that's a ton of volunteer hours, working to ready the church for a funeral, all of which has to be undone for the next Sunday service.

So I'm in the church, working and preparing the church, for a funeral I know will be canceled at the last minute, and then everything will have to be undone, just for the purpose of...... what? Wasting my time?

Yes? And? Of course volunteers are going to be the LAST ones to find out. I don't really see what this has to do with what we were discussing.

Do you really think they did that to intentionally grief the family? For what purpose? They were secretly hoping the parents would be mad, and go to the media, so that they could have their pastor, and congregation, bombarded by the public? For what purpose?

That seems even less likely.

Well, you think that the mother who just lost her child is just trying to stir up trouble; I believe you said as much in so many words earlier in the thread. Do you honestly think she would use her son's death just to stir up trouble with this particular church? Apparently, according to you and others, she and her son were members of this church.

As for being active, and people not knowing about their personal lives.... that doesn't seem all that unlikely. I'm active in my Church, and I doubt many know I'm still single. Especially, if the man in question, knows the Church teaches against Homosexuality. It's highly likely he didn't share such information. Some people are really good liars, too. Not saying I know this guy was, but how many woman find out their husband was cheating for years, and never knew it. Some people are just gifted in lying.

So now you are accusing this family of being "liars?" Nice Androw, real nice. *rolls eyes* WHY would they do that? What would be their MO? So that the gay man can attend THIS particular church and . . . do what exactly? Do you think this is some kind of conspiracy or something????

 

[Andylusion]

]Well obviously, I wasn't there. But the article cited, said they found out when they read it in the paper, and started calling the Church.

If everyone knew... why would they wait until the last minute, to cancel? What would be the purpose of that? What benefit would be in that?

Who is "they," Androw?

I don't know why they would wait. That is why I asked.

It says they had the church ready for the funeral. Now if their church is anything like my church, that's a ton of volunteer hours, working to ready the church for a funeral, all of which has to be undone for the next Sunday service.

So I'm in the church, working and preparing the church, for a funeral I know will be canceled at the last minute, and then everything will have to be undone, just for the purpose of...... what? Wasting my time?

Yes? And? Of course volunteers are going to be the LAST ones to find out. I don't really see what this has to do with what we were discussing.

Do you really think they did that to intentionally grief the family? For what purpose? They were secretly hoping the parents would be mad, and go to the media, so that they could have their pastor, and congregation, bombarded by the public? For what purpose?

That seems even less likely.

Well, you think that the mother who just lost her child is just trying to stir up trouble; I believe you said as much in so many words earlier in the thread. Do you honestly think she would use her son's death just to stir up trouble with this particular church? Apparently, according to you and others, she and her son were members of this church.

As for being active, and people not knowing about their personal lives.... that doesn't seem all that unlikely. I'm active in my Church, and I doubt many know I'm still single. Especially, if the man in question, knows the Church teaches against Homosexuality. It's highly likely he didn't share such information. Some people are really good liars, too. Not saying I know this guy was, but how many woman find out their husband was cheating for years, and never knew it. Some people are just gifted in lying.

So now you are accusing this family of being "liars?" Nice Androw, real nice. *rolls eyes* WHY would they do that? What would be their MO? So that the gay man can attend THIS particular church and . . . do what exactly? Do you think this is some kind of conspiracy or something????

First read the highlighted underlined section of my post. It would help the conversation, if you actually read my post, before spiting accusations at me. I am not your enemy. I told you, we're not at war, I don't hate anyone, this isn't a fight.

So why would he lie? Um.... well... if you were a member of the American Vegan Society, and you liked being a member, and yet you loved your steak dinner every Tuesday..... Can you think of any reason you might lie to the AVS about eating your steak every Tuesday? Maybe... because they'd kick you out?

Like I said before, I can't figure out why an openly homosexual man, who got married to another man.... would want to be a member of a church who openly proclaimed the Biblical teaching that Homosexuality is a sin.

But why he might lie about it... that seems obvious. If he told them he was homosexual, or found out he was married to another man, they would have kicked him out.

Who is 'they'? It said the people of the church found out. If I found out a member of my church, was openly gay, and got a same-sex marriage, you bet I'd be calling the board of directors for sure.

Um... no, the volunteers if anything, would be the first to find out. They are the ones paying attention to the fact someone in their church died. Not everyone pays equal attention, as you should expect. The people that specifically know me, are the most likely to volunteer. The people who have no idea who I am, are the least likely, especially since they are not likely to go to the funeral.

As for mother intentionally causing problems...
Well, on second thought... I don't know. Initially I was thinking she was, but it is, I guess possible, that she did not mean to, but nevertheless is.

Further, the story does not say that she was a member of that specific church, only that her son was. She might have been a member, and might not. At least what I read did not say either way.

All I *DO* know, is that *IF* she is a Christian, then she is violating what the Bible says. A Christian should not be doing what she is doing. She shouldn't be talking to the media, about a Church issue. The Bible is very clear about that.

Of course, if she is a faker or hypocrite, like you suggested before, then this is yet another reason we should kick fakers and hypocrites out of the Church.

If she is a pagan, or non-christian of some sort... well that's fine. That's what pagans do. I wouldn't expect anything else.

 

[ChrisL]

First read the highlighted underlined section of my post. It would help the conversation, if you actually read my post, before spiting accusations at me. I am not your enemy. I told you, we're not at war, I don't hate anyone, this isn't a fight.

Lol! Oh Androw, you obviously think that the someone was lying. Right? I don't think we're at war. Sorry. I tend to get a little aggressive sometimes during debate. I don't mean to insult you, and I certainly don't have anything against you personally, other than completely disagreeing with your viewpoint here.

So why would he lie? Um.... well... if you were a member of the American Vegan Society, and you liked being a member, and yet you loved your steak dinner every Tuesday..... Can you think of any reason you might lie to the AVS about eating your steak every Tuesday? Maybe... because they'd kick you out?

Lol. Why on earth would be a member of a vegan society if I desire meat? I'm not getting the logic behind this idea.

Like I said before, I can't figure out why an openly homosexual man, who got married to another man.... would want to be a member of a church who openly proclaimed the Biblical teaching that Homosexuality is a sin.

But why he might lie about it... that seems obvious. If he told them he was homosexual, or found out he was married to another man, they would have kicked him out.

It doesn't make sense to me at all. If he is a believer, then he also believes that he cannot fool God or Jesus. Jeez! The whole premise of him lying to attend church is just kind of out there IMO.

Who is 'they'? It said the people of the church found out. If I found out a member of my church, was openly gay, and got a same-sex marriage, you bet I'd be calling the board of directors for sure.

Oh jeez. I bet the little busy bodies gray haired old ladies just couldn't wait to out him. Lol!

Um... no, the volunteers if anything, would be the first to find out. They are the ones paying attention to the fact someone in their church died. Not everyone pays equal attention, as you should expect. The people that specifically know me, are the most likely to volunteer. The people who have no idea who I am, are the least likely, especially since they are not likely to go to the funeral.

Um, I don't think that volunteers are given personal information about the deceased.

As for mother intentionally causing problems...
Well, on second thought... I don't know. Initially I was thinking she was, but it is, I guess possible, that she did not mean to, but nevertheless is.

Further, the story does not say that she was a member of that specific church, only that her son was. She might have been a member, and might not. At least what I read did not say either way.

Well then maybe she assumed that the church knew her son was gay? That's a possibility as well, right?

All I *DO* know, is that *IF* she is a Christian, then she is violating what the Bible says. A Christian should not be doing what she is doing. She shouldn't be talking to the media, about a Church issue. The Bible is very clear about that.

Of course, if she is a faker or hypocrite, like you suggested before, then this is yet another reason we should kick fakers and hypocrites out of the Church.

If she is a pagan, or non-christian of some sort... well that's fine. That's what pagans do. I wouldn't expect anything else.[/QUOTE]

This is what I do not understand. IF these people are not really believers, then why go through the charade? It does not make a lick of sense to me. Just don't GO to church.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I love how the anti-Christians believe that the sole purpose of Christians is to accede to whatever demand is made of them, in whatever context, from whomever..and who maintain that unless we behave as the willing slaves of the depraved, we aren't *good* Christians. What utter hogwash.

Please, there are so many FAKE Christians running around, judging others, behaving as if they are better (when they are NOT), treating other human beings like crap because they don't agree with their lifestyle and then use their bible as an excuse. This is not what God or Jesus would want, I am quite SURE of that.

*Yawn*.

I get it. You hate Christians. Ok.

Just phonies like yourself. My aunt is a Christian and she would NEVER treat people the way you do. She is a REAL Christian who loves people, no matter their alleged "sins."

Is your aunt Catholic?

Proverbs 26:8Like one who binds a stone in a sling, So is he who gives honor to a fool.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Gotta go to work now. I'll be back later though. I'm not done with this because when the church turned away this woman, they were HURTING her. They must know this. Anyone with an OUNCE of common sense would know this. I want to know what kind of people are capable of such coldheartedness.

People who actually stand up for their beliefs. That drives you crazy don't it?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Ray Stevens Is the man. This is one of his best.