Church denies funeral to gay man

[UllysesS.Archer]

Please, there are so many FAKE Christians running around, judging others, behaving as if they are better (when they are NOT), treating other human beings like crap because they don't agree with their lifestyle and then use their bible as an excuse. This is not what God or Jesus would want, I am quite SURE of that.

I agree!

That's why I asked the question before....

So you are in a Church, and a bunch of people join your church who don't believe what you and your church teaches. They live completely opposite of what you believe is right. They run around telling everyone they are part of your church, and everyone can see they are fake and hypocrites.

Everyone says "ChrisL is part of that hypocrite church. She's one of 'those' people"

So what would you suggest? You can't kick them out of your church, because this whole thread is all about you, and those with you, saying it's wrong for us to kick them out.

So what is your solution?

What would YOU do? Let them stay in the church, and have everyone accuse your church of being full of hypocrites? Just like you are accusing right now?

I think that most people who you would consider sinners and who do not wish to follow the rules of the church are probably not members of any church, and a person has to be pretty narrow-minded to condemn the whole for the actions of only a few.

Also, I think you are supposed to help people, not just throw them away like trash.

There is a huge difference between what people need, and what they want.

I will gladly supply anyone with food, but I won't buy them a bottle of jack daniels.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Personally, I don't really believe in that kind of stuff. The pastor probably found out by word of mouth is what I'm thinking is more likely.

I'm kinda with you on this.

Yes, obviously the parents knew.
Yes, I wager most pastors make it fairly clear what their position is on various topics, and thus the family likely knew the Church's position on homosexuality.

However, I don't think the parents were intentionally trying to 'trick the pastor' into doing something. I doubt it. It's not impossible, but I just doubt that.

As for the pastor having the 'spirit of revelation', I'm always skeptical of that.

Ironically, I too have had things that I just "knew". Things I can't explain why or how, but I just knew it. To explain them, it would take pages of writing, and I'd rather not, if for no other reason, than it makes me feel awkward telling people I knew something I can't explain, and shouldn't have known.

But those things I 'knew' were hardly specific enough like 'that guy in the corner over there, is gay'. That's some heavy revelation there. Again, possible? Sure. But I'm skeptical of that.

Now if the pastor by some 'revelation' or just word of mouth, discovered the guy was living a life style completely incompatible with the Church and Bible, then for the first time in this thread I would say the pastor was in error. He is guilty of creating this drama, by not dealing with it.

He should have met with the man, explained his life choices were not compatible with the Church, and Bible, and asked him to move on. The man would then have found a church compatible with his beliefs, and when he died, he would have been buried by them. None of this drama would have happened.

But I wager, none in the Church, or the pastor knew anything, until his marriage to his husband, was revealed in the paper. That's my bet.

Could be wrong. It's possible. I've never been a pastor, so likely there are lots of things I don't know. But I don't meet many pastors that talking about divine revelation of things like this.

Well, if he was an ACTIVE member of that church, how would he hide a spouse from everyone? He was married to another man according to the article, so I wonder what's up with that? Did the church know previously that he was gay and then just decided to not hold a funeral for this man? Was he excommunicated prior to his death?

As it has been noted many times in this thread. A scheduling conflict resulted in the funeral needing to be moved to a different church. This new church denied the service.

 

[Andylusion]

First read the highlighted underlined section of my post. It would help the conversation, if you actually read my post, before spiting accusations at me. I am not your enemy. I told you, we're not at war, I don't hate anyone, this isn't a fight.

Lol! Oh Androw, you obviously think that the someone was lying. Right? I don't think we're at war. Sorry. I tend to get a little aggressive sometimes during debate. I don't mean to insult you, and I certainly don't have anything against you personally, other than completely disagreeing with your viewpoint here.

So why would he lie? Um.... well... if you were a member of the American Vegan Society, and you liked being a member, and yet you loved your steak dinner every Tuesday..... Can you think of any reason you might lie to the AVS about eating your steak every Tuesday? Maybe... because they'd kick you out?

Lol. Why on earth would be a member of a vegan society if I desire meat? I'm not getting the logic behind this idea.

Like I said before, I can't figure out why an openly homosexual man, who got married to another man.... would want to be a member of a church who openly proclaimed the Biblical teaching that Homosexuality is a sin.

But why he might lie about it... that seems obvious. If he told them he was homosexual, or found out he was married to another man, they would have kicked him out.

It doesn't make sense to me at all. If he is a believer, then he also believes that he cannot fool God or Jesus. Jeez! The whole premise of him lying to attend church is just kind of out there IMO.

Who is 'they'? It said the people of the church found out. If I found out a member of my church, was openly gay, and got a same-sex marriage, you bet I'd be calling the board of directors for sure.

Oh jeez. I bet the little busy bodies gray haired old ladies just couldn't wait to out him. Lol!

Um... no, the volunteers if anything, would be the first to find out. They are the ones paying attention to the fact someone in their church died. Not everyone pays equal attention, as you should expect. The people that specifically know me, are the most likely to volunteer. The people who have no idea who I am, are the least likely, especially since they are not likely to go to the funeral.

Um, I don't think that volunteers are given personal information about the deceased.

As for mother intentionally causing problems...
Well, on second thought... I don't know. Initially I was thinking she was, but it is, I guess possible, that she did not mean to, but nevertheless is.

Further, the story does not say that she was a member of that specific church, only that her son was. She might have been a member, and might not. At least what I read did not say either way.

Well then maybe she assumed that the church knew her son was gay? That's a possibility as well, right?

All I *DO* know, is that *IF* she is a Christian, then she is violating what the Bible says. A Christian should not be doing what she is doing. She shouldn't be talking to the media, about a Church issue. The Bible is very clear about that.

Of course, if she is a faker or hypocrite, like you suggested before, then this is yet another reason we should kick fakers and hypocrites out of the Church.

If she is a pagan, or non-christian of some sort... well that's fine. That's what pagans do. I wouldn't expect anything else.

This is what I do not understand. IF these people are not really believers, then why go through the charade? It does not make a lick of sense to me. Just don't GO to church.[/QUOTE]

Like I said... I don't know.

Some people go because that's just what they do. Others go because it's something to do on Sunday. Some go just for the music, and the 'concert like' atmosphere. Others, their friends are there.

All of those reasons seem really lame to me, which is why I've never lived like that. So I don't know. We're trying to figure out the mind of someone who is gone.

 

[ChrisL]

First read the highlighted underlined section of my post. It would help the conversation, if you actually read my post, before spiting accusations at me. I am not your enemy. I told you, we're not at war, I don't hate anyone, this isn't a fight.

Lol! Oh Androw, you obviously think that the someone was lying. Right? I don't think we're at war. Sorry. I tend to get a little aggressive sometimes during debate. I don't mean to insult you, and I certainly don't have anything against you personally, other than completely disagreeing with your viewpoint here.

So why would he lie? Um.... well... if you were a member of the American Vegan Society, and you liked being a member, and yet you loved your steak dinner every Tuesday..... Can you think of any reason you might lie to the AVS about eating your steak every Tuesday? Maybe... because they'd kick you out?

Lol. Why on earth would be a member of a vegan society if I desire meat? I'm not getting the logic behind this idea.

Like I said before, I can't figure out why an openly homosexual man, who got married to another man.... would want to be a member of a church who openly proclaimed the Biblical teaching that Homosexuality is a sin.

But why he might lie about it... that seems obvious. If he told them he was homosexual, or found out he was married to another man, they would have kicked him out.

It doesn't make sense to me at all. If he is a believer, then he also believes that he cannot fool God or Jesus. Jeez! The whole premise of him lying to attend church is just kind of out there IMO.

Who is 'they'? It said the people of the church found out. If I found out a member of my church, was openly gay, and got a same-sex marriage, you bet I'd be calling the board of directors for sure.

Oh jeez. I bet the little busy bodies gray haired old ladies just couldn't wait to out him. Lol!

Um... no, the volunteers if anything, would be the first to find out. They are the ones paying attention to the fact someone in their church died. Not everyone pays equal attention, as you should expect. The people that specifically know me, are the most likely to volunteer. The people who have no idea who I am, are the least likely, especially since they are not likely to go to the funeral.

Um, I don't think that volunteers are given personal information about the deceased.

As for mother intentionally causing problems...
Well, on second thought... I don't know. Initially I was thinking she was, but it is, I guess possible, that she did not mean to, but nevertheless is.

Further, the story does not say that she was a member of that specific church, only that her son was. She might have been a member, and might not. At least what I read did not say either way.

Well then maybe she assumed that the church knew her son was gay? That's a possibility as well, right?

All I *DO* know, is that *IF* she is a Christian, then she is violating what the Bible says. A Christian should not be doing what she is doing. She shouldn't be talking to the media, about a Church issue. The Bible is very clear about that.

Of course, if she is a faker or hypocrite, like you suggested before, then this is yet another reason we should kick fakers and hypocrites out of the Church.

If she is a pagan, or non-christian of some sort... well that's fine. That's what pagans do. I wouldn't expect anything else.

This is what I do not understand. IF these people are not really believers, then why go through the charade? It does not make a lick of sense to me. Just don't GO to church.

Like I said... I don't know.

Some people go because that's just what they do. Others go because it's something to do on Sunday. Some go just for the music, and the 'concert like' atmosphere. Others, their friends are there.

All of those reasons seem really lame to me, which is why I've never lived like that. So I don't know. We're trying to figure out the mind of someone who is gone.

Lol! Seriously? Going to church for the "fun" of it? They must be SOME dorks!

 

[ChrisL]

I am 100 percent sure the parents in this case knew that the pastor they were trying to trick into blessing the funeral had preached against the lifestyle their son adopted. I am 100 percent certain that they are using their dead kid to make a political statement.

Oh please. You are NOT 100% sure. You don't know these people or anything about them.

That is true. If the young man attended his church and he was the Pastor he would have had to be carnally minded to not discern the young mans state. You would know such things in the spirit. I know by the Holy Spirit certain things without ever meeting a person He is having me pray for. The Pastor should not have spoken of anything concerning the young mans lifestyle to anyone if he was told about it or even if he discerned it. God will not trust us with people if He thinks we are going to tell a single soul about their spiritual condition, etc. When the Holy Spirit shows you something it is for prayer or that persons ears ONLY. Never to tell any other person about. That is something that should never ever be done.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Personally, I don't really believe in that kind of stuff. The pastor probably found out by word of mouth is what I'm thinking is more likely.

I'm kinda with you on this.

Yes, obviously the parents knew.
Yes, I wager most pastors make it fairly clear what their position is on various topics, and thus the family likely knew the Church's position on homosexuality.

However, I don't think the parents were intentionally trying to 'trick the pastor' into doing something. I doubt it. It's not impossible, but I just doubt that.

As for the pastor having the 'spirit of revelation', I'm always skeptical of that.

Ironically, I too have had things that I just "knew". Things I can't explain why or how, but I just knew it. To explain them, it would take pages of writing, and I'd rather not, if for no other reason, than it makes me feel awkward telling people I knew something I can't explain, and shouldn't have known.

But those things I 'knew' were hardly specific enough like 'that guy in the corner over there, is gay'. That's some heavy revelation there. Again, possible? Sure. But I'm skeptical of that.

Now if the pastor by some 'revelation' or just word of mouth, discovered the guy was living a life style completely incompatible with the Church and Bible, then for the first time in this thread I would say the pastor was in error. He is guilty of creating this drama, by not dealing with it.

He should have met with the man, explained his life choices were not compatible with the Church, and Bible, and asked him to move on. The man would then have found a church compatible with his beliefs, and when he died, he would have been buried by them. None of this drama would have happened.

But I wager, none in the Church, or the pastor knew anything, until his marriage to his husband, was revealed in the paper. That's my bet.

Could be wrong. It's possible. I've never been a pastor, so likely there are lots of things I don't know. But I don't meet many pastors that talking about divine revelation of things like this.

Well, if he was an ACTIVE member of that church, how would he hide a spouse from everyone? He was married to another man according to the article, so I wonder what's up with that? Did the church know previously that he was gay and then just decided to not hold a funeral for this man? Was he excommunicated prior to his death?

As it has been noted many times in this thread. A scheduling conflict resulted in the funeral needing to be moved to a different church. This new church denied the service.

Oh, so then it had really nothing to do with the mom, and she wasn't trying to "fool" anyone or stir up trouble. Good to know.

 

[ChrisL]

Please, there are so many FAKE Christians running around, judging others, behaving as if they are better (when they are NOT), treating other human beings like crap because they don't agree with their lifestyle and then use their bible as an excuse. This is not what God or Jesus would want, I am quite SURE of that.

I agree!

That's why I asked the question before....

So you are in a Church, and a bunch of people join your church who don't believe what you and your church teaches. They live completely opposite of what you believe is right. They run around telling everyone they are part of your church, and everyone can see they are fake and hypocrites.

Everyone says "ChrisL is part of that hypocrite church. She's one of 'those' people"

So what would you suggest? You can't kick them out of your church, because this whole thread is all about you, and those with you, saying it's wrong for us to kick them out.

So what is your solution?

What would YOU do? Let them stay in the church, and have everyone accuse your church of being full of hypocrites? Just like you are accusing right now?

I think that most people who you would consider sinners and who do not wish to follow the rules of the church are probably not members of any church, and a person has to be pretty narrow-minded to condemn the whole for the actions of only a few.

Also, I think you are supposed to help people, not just throw them away like trash.

There is a huge difference between what people need, and what they want.

I will gladly supply anyone with food, but I won't buy them a bottle of jack daniels.

I don't see how you can compare that to this situation, a funeral. To me, the funeral is for the family and friends of the deceased to be able to say their last goodbyes and to have closure. The person who is being buried is already dead and gone.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I don't see how you can compare that to this situation, a funeral. To me, the funeral is for the family and friends of the deceased to be able to say their last goodbyes and to have closure. The person who is being buried is already dead and gone.


True.


That one has a Constitutional right to do something doesn't necessarily mean that right should be exercised in every situation.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't see how you can compare that to this situation, a funeral. To me, the funeral is for the family and friends of the deceased to be able to say their last goodbyes and to have closure. The person who is being buried is already dead and gone.


True.


That one has a Constitutional right to do something doesn't necessarily mean that right should be exercised in every situation.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. What constitutional right are you referring to?

 

[Tresha91203]

For many churches, it is about the deceased, not the remaining family. This looks to be one of those churches. Most christians are aware that most christian churches do not perform services for unrepentant sinners. It is pretty common knowledge.

IMO, the pastor/church arranging for the change in venue should have asked the new venue or should have known. It took my friend many visits to many churches of many denominations to find one accepting or ambivalent about her life with her wife. 2 years later, while she has found a church she may attend and receive sacraments, she still visits new denominations looking for her fit. I hope she finds one.

 

[Andylusion]

Lol! Seriously? Going to church for the "fun" of it? They must be SOME dorks!

Darling.... you are so cute.



This is a Christian Hillsong Church in Australia.



This is Gateway Church, in Texas.

Yes, hon, we're dorks. But we enjoy ourselves too. Perhaps not like you do, but we do it our own way <3

 

[ChrisL]

Lol! Seriously? Going to church for the "fun" of it? They must be SOME dorks!

Darling.... you are so cute.



This is a Christian Hillsong Church in Australia.



This is Gateway Church, in Texas.

Yes, hon, we're dorks. But we enjoy ourselves too. Perhaps not like you do, but we do it our own way <3

Lol! I always thought that churches that black people attend look like a lot of fun, with all the singing and dancing.

When I think of church, I usually think of "mass." How much more boring can it get to listen to a sermon in a Catholic church. The only good thing about it is some of the Catholic churches are historical and absolutely gorgeous to behold.

 

[Andylusion]

Lol! Seriously? Going to church for the "fun" of it? They must be SOME dorks!

Darling.... you are so cute.



This is a Christian Hillsong Church in Australia.



This is Gateway Church, in Texas.

Yes, hon, we're dorks. But we enjoy ourselves too. Perhaps not like you do, but we do it our own way <3

Lol! I always thought that churches that black people attend look like a lot of fun, with all the singing and dancing.

When I think of church, I usually think of "mass." How much more boring can it get to listen to a sermon in a Catholic church. The only good thing about it is some of the Catholic churches are historical and absolutely gorgeous to behold.

Oh I see. I am not Catholic in any way. I have no idea what that's like. Never been to a Mass, or even inside a Catholic.... church? I don't even know what they call their buildings. Cathedrals?

 

[House]

Lol! Seriously? Going to church for the "fun" of it? They must be SOME dorks!

Darling.... you are so cute.



This is a Christian Hillsong Church in Australia.



This is Gateway Church, in Texas.

Yes, hon, we're dorks. But we enjoy ourselves too. Perhaps not like you do, but we do it our own way <3

Lol! I always thought that churches that black people attend look like a lot of fun, with all the singing and dancing.

When I think of church, I usually think of "mass." How much more boring can it get to listen to a sermon in a Catholic church. The only good thing about it is some of the Catholic churches are historical and absolutely gorgeous to behold.

Oh I see. I am not Catholic in any way. I have no idea what that's like. Never been to a Mass, or even inside a Catholic.... church? I don't even know what they call their buildings. Cathedrals?

Why would you not visit the creators of your religion?

 

[BillyP]

Church denies funeral to gay man

Of course it would, man on man anal sex is reserved for clergy. DUH!!!

 

[ChrisL]

Lol! Seriously? Going to church for the "fun" of it? They must be SOME dorks!

Darling.... you are so cute.



This is a Christian Hillsong Church in Australia.



This is Gateway Church, in Texas.

Yes, hon, we're dorks. But we enjoy ourselves too. Perhaps not like you do, but we do it our own way <3

Lol! I always thought that churches that black people attend look like a lot of fun, with all the singing and dancing.

When I think of church, I usually think of "mass." How much more boring can it get to listen to a sermon in a Catholic church. The only good thing about it is some of the Catholic churches are historical and absolutely gorgeous to behold.

Oh I see. I am not Catholic in any way. I have no idea what that's like. Never been to a Mass, or even inside a Catholic.... church? I don't even know what they call their buildings. Cathedrals?

No? I grew up right next to a gorgeous church that was built in 1888, an Irish Catholic church. It is amazing inside. It's very gothic, ornate and beautiful. I'd post some pictures of it, but that might be a little TMI.

 

[House]

There is a huge difference between what people need, and what they want.

I will gladly supply anyone with food, but I won't buy them a bottle of jack daniels.

How do you know they don't need that bottle of jack for medicinal purposes?

Are you a doctor? More importantly, are you that person's doctor?

Cuz if you're not, you could well be condemning them to die simply because you have an irrational hatred of alcohol.

IRRATIONAL, I SAY!

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

There is a huge difference between what people need, and what they want.

I will gladly supply anyone with food, but I won't buy them a bottle of jack daniels.

How do you know they don't need that bottle of jack for medicinal purposes?

Are you a doctor? More importantly, are you that person's doctor?

Cuz if you're not, you could well be condemning them to die simply because you have an irrational hatred of alcohol.

IRRATIONAL, I SAY!

I NEVER said , I wouldn't buy myself a bottle of Jack, though I prefer Sam Addams Octoberfest, and Ole Smokey moonshine.

 

[Mertex]

Jake, have you ever even opened a Bible? I mean, I would love to hear what you think the real Jesus taught, and preached. Please let us know, since he only spoke to you, how are the rest of us supposed to know if you don't tell us.

6 days means 6 days. pretty simple concept really. And god was tired so he took the seventh day off.

Sorry Billy, I didn't know you and Jake shared a brain. but now I do.

However if Jesus preached that, then Jake is really in the wrong isn't he? Thanks Billy.

Nobody knows what jesus preached because nothing was written down in his lifetime.

Right, that's how we know about dinosaurs because nothing was written down in their lifetime.

 

[Mertex]

There is a huge difference between what people need, and what they want.

I will gladly supply anyone with food, but I won't buy them a bottle of jack daniels.

How do you know they don't need that bottle of jack for medicinal purposes?

Are you a doctor? More importantly, are you that person's doctor?

Cuz if you're not, you could well be condemning them to die simply because you have an irrational hatred of alcohol.

IRRATIONAL, I SAY!

Really? Jack Daniels for medicinal purposes? I'm sure if the properties in Jack Daniels were needed to cure someone, a medicine with those properties would be created. Besides, people that are not qualified to give out medicine shouldn't be doing it. You're really stretching it.

 

[House]

There is a huge difference between what people need, and what they want.

I will gladly supply anyone with food, but I won't buy them a bottle of jack daniels.

How do you know they don't need that bottle of jack for medicinal purposes?

Are you a doctor? More importantly, are you that person's doctor?

Cuz if you're not, you could well be condemning them to die simply because you have an irrational hatred of alcohol.

IRRATIONAL, I SAY!

Really? Jack Daniels for medicinal purposes? I'm sure if the properties in Jack Daniels were needed to cure someone, a medicine with those properties would be created. Besides, people that are not qualified to give out medicine shouldn't be doing it. You're really stretching it.

Turn on your sarcasm detector, curmudgeon.