Christians must understand that for Jews the cross is a symbol of oppression

[irosie91]

I am not impressed-------sometimes the silly story is told differently. There is no actual history of an "annual pardoning" and the lump of scum who decide that
the "wrong person" was saved can GO FUCK HIMSELF

"Sometimes the story is told differently"
You dishonest hag.
How many times has my KJV been changed?
Seems to me that you're the one changing the story to support your own twisted agenda.
Twice, by my count, in this thread alone.
Go away, gnat

what a joke you are-----the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

So you saw a made for tv movie? That's your basis of disbelief?

Look up the word Pesahim, then get back to me

\"pesashim" is an rendering of a Hebrew word and has nothing to do with your
idiot fairy tales. You were never in the same room with a volume of the talmud

It has nothing to do with an annual pardoning on Passover?
Do you have anything besides your own words to support that?

It as nothing to do with anything-----the romans did not celebrate jewish holidays
nor did jews engage in the filth of those of your ilk-----to wit, crucifixtion----that filth is ALL YOURS

 

[hortysir]

"Sometimes the story is told differently"
You dishonest hag.
How many times has my KJV been changed?
Seems to me that you're the one changing the story to support your own twisted agenda.
Twice, by my count, in this thread alone.
Go away, gnat

what a joke you are-----the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

So you saw a made for tv movie? That's your basis of disbelief?

Look up the word Pesahim, then get back to me

\"pesashim" is an rendering of a Hebrew word and has nothing to do with your
idiot fairy tales. You were never in the same room with a volume of the talmud

It has nothing to do with an annual pardoning on Passover?
Do you have anything besides your own words to support that?

It as nothing to do with anything-----the romans did not celebrate jewish holidays
nor did jews engage in the filth of those of your ilk-----to wit, crucifixtion----that filth is ALL YOURS

So you got nothing.
Got it.

Any leader, worth his salt, tries to appease his constituents and abides by their customs. If, for no other reason, than to avoid a revolt.

Your vitriol hate is noted and, as such, you Winn an all expenses paid trip to Iggyland.

 

[zaangalewa]

... You are saying Jesus is Lucifer and I'm a troll?

He tries to say that Catholics are praying to the devil Jesus. Indeed the word "lucifer" exists exactly 1 time in the Latin translation of the New Testatment. It's in the 2nd letter from Peter chapter 1 line 19: Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus. The english translation of this sentence is: And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts

But maybe he speaks about the revelation chapter 22 vers 16 because "morning star" exists 2 times in the english bible (Standard Version, New Testament).The Latin text is: Ego Jesus misi angelum meum testificari vobis hæc in ecclesiis. Ego sum radix, et genus David, stella splendida et matutina. English: “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

 

[zaangalewa]

Along the Roman road Anabaptists were crucified because they refused to deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This was prior to the Inquisition the Romanists would carry on for another 605 years - slaughtering both Christians and Jews alike... historians put the number of Christians, Jews and non Catholics put to death at 68 million. You can be sure that son of Satan in the Vatican right now is planning the next Inquisition even now.

Unfortunatelly it would need to much time to speak about the inquisiton - but in most cases less than nothing is true what the people think about the Inquisition. And what for heavens sake do you speak about in case of Anabaptists? (¿15th Century?) Who crucified whom where when? Give me some concrete historical details please.

Oh Sorry - I forgot. You are "Jeremia". Everything what you say is "Catholics are evil, that's why I'm good". Whatever. Give me some facts and I will try to find out what was really going on - if indeed something was going on, because your relation to the truth seems to be more warful and less wonderful.

 

[irosie91]

what a joke you are-----the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

So you saw a made for tv movie? That's your basis of disbelief?

Look up the word Pesahim, then get back to me

\"pesashim" is an rendering of a Hebrew word and has nothing to do with your
idiot fairy tales. You were never in the same room with a volume of the talmud

It has nothing to do with an annual pardoning on Passover?
Do you have anything besides your own words to support that?

It as nothing to do with anything-----the romans did not celebrate jewish holidays
nor did jews engage in the filth of those of your ilk-----to wit, crucifixtion----that filth is ALL YOURS

So you got nothing.
Got it.

Any leader, worth his salt, tries to appease his constituents and abides by their customs. If, for no other reason, than to avoid a revolt.

Your vitriol hate is noted and, as such, you Winn an all expenses paid trip to Iggyland.

watta joke----Pontius Pilate crucified an estimated 10,000 jews in the ten
years that he was prelate of Judea-----and the Nazi dog claims he was
being nice to avoid revolt. The roman dogs did not PLAY NICE

 

[Meriweather]

the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

You are correct in noting that history has no record of Pilate having the custom of pardoning anyone--even during Passover. It should also be noted that there is no way the entire Sanhedrin would convene at night--let alone a Passover night.

So the clues we are left with is that Caiaphas met with a few people, and he apparently convinced Pilate that Jesus was the man he wanted--not the man already arrested.

 

[irosie91]

the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

You are correct in noting that history has no record of Pilate having the custom of pardoning anyone--even during Passover. It should also be noted that there is no way the entire Sanhedrin would convene at night--let alone a Passover night.

So the clues we are left with is that Caiaphas met with a few people, and he apparently convinced Pilate that Jesus was the man he wanted--not the man already arrested.

could have been a plot by Caiaphas and pilate----for whatever reason----certainly not the reasons that Christian kids are taught in sunday school which seem to be
(as I do recall) something like -----"because jesus did not want the Pharisees to steal money from the population" I do not know what Christian kids are taught now-----but back then the "money changers were Pharisees and so was the nasty
bastard Caiaphas------and poor Pilate was the good guy---forced to do the dirty work for a screaming mob of Pharisees who----SUDDENLY decided to love to
see people crucified as if they were romans in the coliseum watching people get
eaten by lions. So many of the details of the story make no sense. My all time fave detail is that Jesus was crucified for threatening to compromise the authority
of the rabbis---------the ROMANS could not tolerate that.......they so supported the
"authority of the rabbis"

 

[hortysir]

the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

You are correct in noting that history has no record of Pilate having the custom of pardoning anyone--even during Passover. It should also be noted that there is no way the entire Sanhedrin would convene at night--let alone a Passover night.

So the clues we are left with is that Caiaphas met with a few people, and he apparently convinced Pilate that Jesus was the man he wanted--not the man already arrested.

There is a book I found in Google Books that cites two outside sources that substantiated the claim.
Gimme a sec and I'll try to find it again
The Gospels and Acts - Michael Wilkins Craig A. Evans Darrell Bock Andreas J. K stenberger - Google Books
It's highlighted after the bolded heading "It was Pontius Pilate's custom"

 

[irosie91]

Jesus wasn't the messiah, he never existed and those many figures used for his image did not fulfill the prerequisites and we were warned about this first man made image deemed perfect who had fallen as a messiah being claimed a god.
John the baptist was of the christ Theudas by the Jordan accounts is not the same figure as the Gallilean christ nor son of mary christ figure.
Remember you are the 1/3 who were deceived by thecdon of perdition.

I think you will have to argue with Josephus. There exists more evidence for Jesus Christ than most historical figures of the Old Testament, and yet I believe they all existed, as did the events they are revealed to have been involved. Show me proof of Abraham, Joseph, Moses, and David. Yet Jesus gave testimony to them and others.

Josephus does not mention Jesus-----there is a tiny little sentence in is giant book
that historians agree is a fraudulent insert. However---I do agree that he existed and there is no reason to doubt it He is entirely consistent with people of his time

 

[irosie91]

the story makes no sense-----I have seen it DRAMATIZED ------as if the idiot lie were something "HOLY" There is no history of "one person saved from crucifixtion for the holiday" It was INVENTED ----DA JOOOS CHOSE THE BAD GUY......you and yours are sick dogs

You are correct in noting that history has no record of Pilate having the custom of pardoning anyone--even during Passover. It should also be noted that there is no way the entire Sanhedrin would convene at night--let alone a Passover night.

So the clues we are left with is that Caiaphas met with a few people, and he apparently convinced Pilate that Jesus was the man he wanted--not the man already arrested.

There is a book I found in Google Books that cites two outside sources that substantiated the claim.
Gimme a sec and I'll try to find it again
The Gospels and Acts - Michael Wilkins Craig A. Evans Darrell Bock Andreas J. K stenberger - Google Books
It's highlighted after the bolded heading "It was Pontius Pilate's custom"

not impressed------if pilate had such a CUSTOM-----it would make headlines
in jewish history books----something like if ADOLF EICHMANN saved children
each day

 

[haissem123]

... You are saying Jesus is Lucifer and I'm a troll?

He tries to say that Catholics are praying to the devil Jesus. Indeed the word "lucifer" exists exactly 1 time in the Latin translation of the New Testatment. It's in the 2nd letter from Peter chapter 1 line 19: Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus. The english translation of this sentence is: And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts

But maybe he speaks about the revelation chapter 22 vers 16 because "morning star" exists 2 times in the english bible (Standard Version, New Testament).The Latin text is: Ego Jesus misi angelum meum testificari vobis hæc in ecclesiis. Ego sum radix, et genus David, stella splendida et matutina. English: “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

I have witnessed the angel in revaltions ten I have written the little book that is to measure God's temple but nobody wants to sign our confession and be saved so away we go to blazes

 

[irosie91]

... You are saying Jesus is Lucifer and I'm a troll?

He tries to say that Catholics are praying to the devil Jesus. Indeed the word "lucifer" exists exactly 1 time in the Latin translation of the New Testatment. It's in the 2nd letter from Peter chapter 1 line 19: Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus. The english translation of this sentence is: And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts

But maybe he speaks about the revelation chapter 22 vers 16 because "morning star" exists 2 times in the english bible (Standard Version, New Testament).The Latin text is: Ego Jesus misi angelum meum testificari vobis hæc in ecclesiis. Ego sum radix, et genus David, stella splendida et matutina. English: “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

I have witnessed the angel in revaltions ten I have written the little book that is to measure God's temple but nobody wants to sign our confession and be saved so away we go to blazes

I once cured a very nice middle aged lady of "seeing angels" ---with a couple of shots of bicillin in her ass

 

[Meriweather]

could have been a plot by Caiaphas and pilate----for whatever reason----certainly not the reasons that Christian kids are taught in sunday school which seem to be
(as I do recall) something like -----"because jesus did not want the Pharisees to steal money from the population" I do not know what Christian kids are taught now-----but back then the "money changers were Pharisees and so was the nasty
bastard Caiaphas------and poor Pilate was the good guy---forced to do the dirty work for a screaming mob of Pharisees who----SUDDENLY decided to love to
see people crucified as if they were romans in the coliseum watching people get
eaten by lions. So many of the details of the story make no sense. My all time fave detail is that Jesus was crucified for threatening to compromise the authority
of the rabbis---------the ROMANS could not tolerate that.......they so supported the
"authority of the rabbis"

I don't know about Sunday School, if you are referencing Protestant Sunday School? I attended Catholic School, and part of the curriculum meant listening to people of other faiths, and learning about who really wrote the books of the New Testament, when they were written, why they are included in Canon whereas others were not. I taught Continuing Catholic Education for many years, but it appears our curriculum is different, than other Christian denominations, possibly because we are centered on Catholic beliefs and practices (the sacraments) and how we are expected to live the faith.

In any case, we knew the Pharisees that were friendly with Jesus. We learned that the high priest and other Pharisees were critical of Jesus and his message. We were taught to read Jesus' harangue about some Pharisees in Matthew's Gospel and picture Jesus speaking to us (Catholics) today, just as he was speaking to people in his own time. We were taught Christianity didn't receive a pass on hypocrisy; no one did.

My dad, who had no religion, was a convert, and from some of the things he said about continuing education, plus my own natural interest in research and history may have me better educated that some. But I also know from the homilies I have listened to, priests have mentioned and explained anomalies from time to time as well.

Anyway, this is just a long way of saying that that not all of us are products of a one-hour Sunday School, and nothing more.

 

[irosie91]

could have been a plot by Caiaphas and pilate----for whatever reason----certainly not the reasons that Christian kids are taught in sunday school which seem to be
(as I do recall) something like -----"because jesus did not want the Pharisees to steal money from the population" I do not know what Christian kids are taught now-----but back then the "money changers were Pharisees and so was the nasty
bastard Caiaphas------and poor Pilate was the good guy---forced to do the dirty work for a screaming mob of Pharisees who----SUDDENLY decided to love to
see people crucified as if they were romans in the coliseum watching people get
eaten by lions. So many of the details of the story make no sense. My all time fave detail is that Jesus was crucified for threatening to compromise the authority
of the rabbis---------the ROMANS could not tolerate that.......they so supported the
"authority of the rabbis"

I don't know about Sunday School, if you are referencing Protestant Sunday School? I attended Catholic School, and part of the curriculum meant listening to people of other faiths, and learning about who really wrote the books of the New Testament, when they were written, why they are included in Canon whereas others were not. I taught Continuing Catholic Education for many years, but it appears our curriculum is different, than other Christian denominations, possibly because we are centered on Catholic beliefs and practices (the sacraments) and how we are expected to live the faith.

In any case, we knew the Pharisees that were friendly with Jesus. We learned that the high priest and other Pharisees were critical of Jesus and his message. We were taught to read Jesus' harangue about some Pharisees in Matthew's Gospel and picture Jesus speaking to us (Catholics) today, just as he was speaking to people in his own time. We were taught Christianity didn't receive a pass on hypocrisy; no one did.

My dad, who had no religion, was a convert, and from some of the things he said about continuing education, plus my own natural interest in research and history may have me better educated that some. But I also know from the homilies I have listened to, priests have mentioned and explained anomalies from time to time as well.

Anyway, this is just a long way of saying that that not all of us are products of a one-hour Sunday School, and nothing more.

oh-----you are post 1960 I went to sunday school (protestant) in the 50s---
just a few times but I got the gist of it from friends all week even when I was not
there

for the record----HARANGUE was a normal form of communication----Jeremiah was an EXCELLENT haranguist-----very entertaining and very pharisaic
('you damn vipers one and all')

 

[LittleNipper]

New Testament were the Godly inspired work of Jews. Paul, originally Saul, being perhaps the most formidable and most "Jewish" of them all.

Once again not true;
Fact none of the books were written by those they are named after even the church admits this.
If Matthew was written by A Jew then he would have known the gender used in Micah 5 is not that of a place/town. A Jew would also know Micah is talking about a lineage "Bethlehem Ephratah" not a town of Bethlehem.
Read the context of Micah 5 it's about a lineage. Bethlehem was the son or grandson of Ephratah.
As for Paul that's also secreted in Acts there is more then one figure created the converged character Oaul thus why Saul is given The new name.
In acts Saul comes across Sergius Paulus called Paul who's friend was a maggi (alymas) named Bar(son)Jesus and Saul rebuked barJesus calling him the son of the devil. In order to swallow their revolter enemies Rome would use other cultures desired figures as their own to submit worship under their authority thus used Saul to Get Jews to submit to their Basl worship now under the guise of his son the morning star who Jesus was made an image to be.
The other figure used for the accounts of Paul are borrowed from Apollonius of Tyana called Pol who was from Tarsus and who's Syrian adventure window story comes from. The OT accts of Apollyon could easily fit Pol as the fulfilled destroyer in the prophecy.

You may wish to read the following: Response to the Fabulous Prophecies of the Messiah
The Bible is not a book without multiple meanings. Those meanings are not contradictions.

 

[HaShev]

LittleNipper the NT is full of over 50 thousand errors and contradictions and is not a bible, it's a plagiarized fable.
False prophets and political prisoners are not to be followed or listened to period. Idols not to be venerated period. Darkness=lies and ignorance is not to be your driving force nor inclination.
Sharing you darkness with 9thers and bringing them into the same blinders you are in is not helping them nor society crawl out of this mess they made. Period!

 

[Meriweather]

LittleNipper the NT is full of over 50 thousand errors and contradictions and is not a bible, it's a plagiarized fable.
False prophets and political prisoners are not to be followed or listened to period. Idols not to be venerated period. Darkness=lies and ignorance is not to be your driving force nor inclination.
Sharing you darkness with 9thers and bringing them into the same blinders you are in is not helping them nor society crawl out of this mess they made. Period!

No, the New Testament is not a plagiarized fable, and nor are there fifty thousand errors and contradictions. In reading any account, it is vital that we understand the author, know his intended audience, and the information he wishes to convey to his audience.

 

[LittleNipper]

LittleNipper the NT is full of over 50 thousand errors and contradictions and is not a bible, it's a plagiarized fable.
False prophets and political prisoners are not to be followed or listened to period. Idols not to be venerated period. Darkness=lies and ignorance is not to be your driving force nor inclination.
Sharing you darkness with 9thers and bringing them into the same blinders you are in is not helping them nor society crawl out of this mess they made. Period!

The lie I see is that legalistic Jews are following the LAW as laid out by the Moses. Without the temple, unless you are willing to accept that Christ changed the game plan, for about 2000 years the Jews have been in contempt of the LAW by not following it to the letter. Give me one error found in the New Testament. PS> I do believe that Noah and Jonah (OT) were real people ----- do you?

 

[Meriweather]

The lie I see is that legalistic Jews are following the LAW as laid out by the Moses. Without the temple, unless you are willing to accept that Christ changed the game plan, for about 2000 years the Jews have been in contempt of the LAW by not following it to the letter. Give me one error found in the New Testament. PS> I do believe that Noah and Jonah (OT) were real people ----- do you?

Shouldn't we be reasonable about this? For example, should Jews who suffer from diabetes be taunted because they cannot do a traditional fast? Likewise, without a Temple, some practices and prayers are not able to be performed, but many others are diligently followed. IF there were a Temple, and Temple laws weren't being followed, then the charge of contempt might be valid. Without a Temple, then these laws are simply in abeyance until such time they may come into play again. They are not being broken. They simply don't pertain at this time.

 

[HaShev]

Little nip since your own NT says to keep the laws and Torah then you agree the NT is a fable otherwise you would not be opposing it in the most basic manner possible.

Merri, said;
"No, the New Testament is not a plagiarized fable"

Here's backing and resources my statement stands & note you did not back your rebuttle you merely stated your tainted opinion which your own texts admits is problematic snd that you'd deceive the world.

Luke 24:44-45 "Then he said to them, 'everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets and the psalms.' (-Meaning, fit me in every verse to make me out to be the one)Thus They rewrote Matthew 1.1 through 4:11 to create his Genesis (Luke 1:5 - 4:13). He leaned on Mark 1:21 through 3:19 to create his Exodus (Luke 4:14 - 6:19). He quarried Matthew in rather unique ways to develop his readings for Leviticus (Luke 6:20 - 8:25). He transcribed Mark 4 through 9 with some rather gaping omissions to provide appropriate readings to correspond with the material found in Numbers (Luke 8:26 - 9:50). Finally, in his most imaginative piece of writing, Luke created the expanded journey section of his gospel (Luke 9:51 - 18:14) to correspond to the readings from Deuteronomy. In order to show Jesus as the fulfillment of the Torah, Luke wrote his infancy story against the background of the Book of Genesis.
The blood atonement borrowed from Deut 21.
Jeremiah 13:13-14 was used in emulating out of it’s context of time and message to create a disturbing threat in Matthew 10: 34-40 and Thomas Verse 16.
2Samuel 1:10 &1:12 were re rewritten in the crucifixion scene of Jesus to be about him not Israel.
Even 1Sa 5:3 &5:4 mirrors his crucifixion that was written to emulate these verses about the Philistine deity “Dagon” he represents. And read II Kings 4: 42 - 43(sound familiar to the loaves of bread story placed upon Jesus?)
Not only did they rehash text that was already in the bible but they also manipulate text that their teachings are based on making excuses for not fulfilling things or for problems that arise like his death etc. All the stories are based on twisted reasoning trying to avoid the inevitable questions like how could God die and allow himself to be tortured by his enemies etc. So they wrote the story and religion around these complications and twisted reason and common sense to make excuses for these things.

When Jesus' biography was being compiled was to attribute to him, miracles and anecdotes recorded in earlier texts and mythologues like the Baal passion play found on predsted tablets with exact ssne stories found in the Jesus myth. Hence why they say father (Baal) and son Jesus are one.

But worse violation is when Jesus the morning star steals the roles of Michael the Evening Star which is why they say Jesus is a thief in the Night. They give the idol Michael's role as Judge, messenger of truth-Dan 10:21, head of the Temple in his name etc...
This is why JW's snd Adventist think Jesus was Michael, because they thieved the roles and gave them to the imposter.