'Christian warrior' militia accused in plot to kill police

[AllieBaba]

I don't think many of us go to the political message boards of different countries and tell them how f*****d up their country is, how stupid their citizens, and how despised they are.

 

[Gunny]

hmmmm.....you've got a point there....

You think we *might* have some contenders for the 2010 Darwin Award in the bunch?

Cuh-LEARLY! Ironically... Spared by the bunch which they were allegedly about to use to cull themselves from the gene pool.

Surely at least ONE of them geared up in explosive undies? Or a firecracker in the jockstrap? Something to warrant a Darwin inclusion?

Last I checked, we still have First Amendment Rights in this country. Supposedly but not really.

Planning? Actual evidence ....?

 

[eots]

So have they got to the part about the paid informent or undercover FBI agent ,that purchased supplies helped, build bombs and offered moral support yet ?...seems there is always one of those in storys like this

 

[Gunny]

So have they got to the part about the paid informent or undercover FBI agent ,that purchased supplies helped, build bombs and offered moral support yet ?...seems there is always one of those in storys like this

It's all for the "greater good", don'tchaknow?

 

[Vast LWC]

From an interview with the person who owns the property the group trained on:

About a half-dozen people were allowed to train on the property, Dudley said, and he knew they were part of a militia "getting reading in case there's a revolution." But he said they never talked about sparking a revolution. Besides, in this part of Michigan, he said, belonging to the militia or being suspicious of the government isn't seen as radical.

"This area is very conservative, and we don't like the government going against the Constitution and its laws," he said.

From The Detroit News: Hutaree leader asked friends for place to hide | detnews.com | The Detroit News

The gentleman who provided the comments is also the same fellow that sheltered several members of the group until the FBI picked them up a day or two later.

Hutaree leader asked friends for place to hide | detnews.com | The Detroit News

 

[Vast LWC]

So have they got to the part about the paid informent or undercover FBI agent ,that purchased supplies helped, build bombs and offered moral support yet ?...seems there is always one of those in storys like this

It's all for the "greater good", don'tchaknow?

I'd say preventing the deaths of several dozen police officers is a good cause.

And as for your comments on the nature of police officers, many people say the same things about Marines. Personally I don't make such comments about either.

 

[AllieBaba]

If indeed that's what really happened.

You never know. Strange that it's so hush hush. Silence is never a good sign when you're talking about the FBI and ATF goobers.

 

[Gunny]

From an interview with the person who owns the property the group trained on:

About a half-dozen people were allowed to train on the property, Dudley said, and he knew they were part of a militia "getting reading in case there's a revolution." But he said they never talked about sparking a revolution. Besides, in this part of Michigan, he said, belonging to the militia or being suspicious of the government isn't seen as radical.

"This area is very conservative, and we don't like the government going against the Constitution and its laws," he said.

From The Detroit News: Hutaree leader asked friends for place to hide | detnews.com | The Detroit News

The gentleman who provided the comments is also the same fellow that sheltered several members of the group until the FBI picked them up a day or two later.

Hutaree leader asked friends for place to hide | detnews.com | The Detroit News

So have they got to the part about the paid informent or undercover FBI agent ,that purchased supplies helped, build bombs and offered moral support yet ?...seems there is always one of those in storys like this

It's all for the "greater good", don'tchaknow?

I'd say preventing the deaths of several dozen police officers is a good cause.

And as for your comments on the nature of police officers, many people say the same things about Marines. Personally I don't make such comments about either.

Got anything besides exercising First Amendment Rights?

I seem to be missing the bodies and the smoking gun ....

If you're a Marine, you have to be killed first before you can return fire according to you lefties ...

So WTF?

 

[Gunny]

So have they got to the part about the paid informent or undercover FBI agent ,that purchased supplies helped, build bombs and offered moral support yet ?...seems there is always one of those in storys like this

It's all for the "greater good", don'tchaknow?

I'd say preventing the deaths of several dozen police officers is a good cause.

And as for your comments on the nature of police officers, many people say the same things about Marines. Personally I don't make such comments about either.

Really, lefty? Apply your same reasoning to Iraq.

I don't care what people say about Marines. My job is to accomplish the mission and bring my Marines home alive. I'll destroy anything between me and that. Questions?

 

[Vast LWC]

Militia Probe Included Undercover FBI Agent - WSJ.com

Militia Probe Included Undercover FBI Agent

An undercover agent was part of the federal investigation of a Michigan-based Christian militia group that allegedly planned to spark an uprising against the government by killing police officers, court documents show.

Evidence presented to the grand jury in federal court in Detroit included photographs of Thomas William Piatek, one of nine people indicted Monday in connection with alleged criminal activities by the Hutaree militia in southeastern Michigan.

The grand-jury exhibit included sworn testimony of a law-enforcement officer that Mr. Piatek "is the person known by a Cooperating Witness and an undercover FBI agent to be the person who participated in the criminal violations" detailed in the indictment.

The court had to briefly unseal the indictment, issued Tuesday, March 23, in order to correct Mr. Piatek's middle name, which had been incorrectly written in the arrest warrant and indictment as "Edward." The indictment was publicly unsealed in federal court Monday.

A spokesperson at the FBI'S Detroit office declined to comment on the undercover agent and any role such an agent may have had in the investigation. A spokesman at the Justice Department in Washington also declined to discuss specifics of the investigation.

Infiltration is a common tactic for law-enforcement officials targeting militia groups. It has been widely used to get inside domestic extremist groups, which have in the past proven easier to infiltrate than Islamic terror groups.

In recent months, the FBI also has used one or more undercover agents or employees to carry out sting operations against suspected Islamic terrorists. Hosam Smadi and Michael Finton were both arrested last fall by the FBI after they conspired with the help of undercover agents to blow up public buildings with car bombs packed with fake explosives.

The militia group, known as Hutaree, planned to kill an unidentified local law-enforcement officer in April and then attack local, state and federal officers who came to Michigan to attend the funeral, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan said in a 12-page indictment.

Seven members of the group were arraigned in federal court in Detroit, one was arraigned in federal court in the Northern District of Indiana and the last was arrested Monday night. Those arraigned were ordered held without bond until further hearings this week. Federal agents made the arrests after weekend raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.

The indictment said Hutaree, a small, armed militia group based in rural southeast Michigan, had practiced attacks and other military maneuvers for more than a year, and had planned to use homemade bombs like those used against U.S. forces by insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bombs were the key part of the alleged plot to attack the funeral of a law-enforcement officer, the indictment said.

After that attack, the group planned to retreat to a remote "rally point" from which members would resist an expected response by the government, sparking what Hutaree's alleged leader, David Brian Stone, hoped would be a wider uprising against the government, the indictment said. FBI agent Andrew Arena called Hutaree "an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society."

 

[xotoxi]

People like to be selective and not choose a single standard for what the word means. They use it as it suits them at the time. Never mind they contradict themselves from previous statements due to nothing more than political partisanship.

I agree. But I have a problem with the term "terrorist". It's definition is politically motivated. Is it a "terrorist" or "freedom fighter"? I'm pretty sure most "freedom fighters" use terrorist tactics to advance their causes. If they lose, they are terrorists if they win they are freedom fighters. If a larger power condemns their cause they are terrorists if a larger power supports their cause they are freedom fighters. We see this all the time through out history. Is it even possible to have a consistent definition for terrorist outside of politically-influenced agendas?

Excellent synopsis.

So maybe we need to come up with a new term to describe these groups from all perspectives.

Any suggestions?

 

[Gunny]

People like to be selective and not choose a single standard for what the word means. They use it as it suits them at the time. Never mind they contradict themselves from previous statements due to nothing more than political partisanship.

I agree. But I have a problem with the term "terrorist". It's definition is politically motivated. Is it a "terrorist" or "freedom fighter"? I'm pretty sure most "freedom fighters" use terrorist tactics to advance their causes. If they lose, they are terrorists if they win they are freedom fighters. If a larger power condemns their cause they are terrorists if a larger power supports their cause they are freedom fighters. We see this all the time through out history. Is it even possible to have a consistent definition for terrorist outside of politically-influenced agendas?

Excellent synopsis.

So maybe we need to come up with a new term to describe these groups from all perspectives.

Any suggestions?

You can't get a straight answer. The answers will be determined by who believes who is right and who is wrong.

The IRS is a terrorist organization and an integral part of the US Government.

SO WHO are the "bad guys"?

 

[Vast LWC]

Really, lefty? Apply your same reasoning to Iraq.

In what way? Invading Iraq the second time around did not protect any lives. It caused half a million deaths.

I don't care what people say about Marines. My job is to accomplish the mission and bring my Marines home alive. I'll destroy anything between me and that. Questions?

As it should be.

You were making a generalization about Police Officers. I was pointing out that some people generalize in the same way about Marines.

Thus my point.

 

[saveliberty]

America, where known bombers are university professors and rub elbows with the President. Versus some guys with guns playing on the weekend and talking big. I'll try to talk to one or two of my police friends this weekend and get more of the story. I'd take a dim view of a police officer getting shot around here. Most likely I know them well.

 

[Coyote]

Hey... There are many good Union Democrats out there; we used to refer to them as "Reagan Demoncrats"; good people, solid, God fearin' Americans who came to understand that the ideological Left has sold them a pack of Lies... but who continued to maintain their Democrat registration out of a loyalty to family and community...

And I expect that they'll resent your snide assertions that they've perverted the Socialist underpinnings of Union entitlements into some delusional agenda which requires them to get hammered in the woods and pop off at the mouth about defeating the Anti-Christ by murdering Local Police Officers... Most folks will recognize such smack talk as that common to the Left's chronic rants regarding 'getting even with the MAN!

The entire episode and all of it's dirty little 'facts' is much closer to Bill Ayer's, than Jesus Christ.

But these guys....they've got that whole dualing banjo inbreeding thing going...I swear one's head looks squashed in a vice and the other's comes to a point

And you can't fix that with some plaster of paris and duct tape?

Never say can't. I can do things with duct tape you ain't even imagined

 

[Vast LWC]

You can't get a straight answer. The answers will be determined by who believes who is right and who is wrong.

The IRS is a terrorist organization and an integral part of the US Government.

SO WHO are the "bad guys"?

Wow, so I guess the IRS has been blowing people up with bombs. Where was I?

So, if I hear you correctly, in your opinion, any organization charged with upholding the law is a "terrorist" organization?

 

[Gunny]

Really, lefty? Apply your same reasoning to Iraq.

In what way? Invading Iraq the second time around did not protect any lives. It caused half a million deaths.

I don't care what people say about Marines. My job is to accomplish the mission and bring my Marines home alive. I'll destroy anything between me and that. Questions?

As it should be.

You were making a generalization about Police Officers. I was pointing out that some people generalize in the same way about Marines.

Thus my point.

Big difference. Marine accomplish a set mission. It's not personal.

Cops power trip. THAT is personal.

I'm not going to get into the Second Gulf War in this thread. A separate topic.

 

[Gunny]

You can't get a straight answer. The answers will be determined by who believes who is right and who is wrong.

The IRS is a terrorist organization and an integral part of the US Government.

SO WHO are the "bad guys"?

Wow, so I guess the IRS has been blowing people up with bombs. Where was I?

So, if I hear you correctly, in your opinion, any organization charged with upholding the law is a "terrorist" organization?

No. They lock you out of your home and put you and your family on the street and garnish your wages and or imprison you for not paying unjust taxes.

Your opinion is anyone sanction by a national government "upholds the law." When was the last time the US government actually upheld the US Constitution?

1860. Been nothing but bureaucratic thieves since. You take from me what you didn't earn in ANY facet of life in this Nation is called theft. Unless the government legislates it's allowed to.

Try again? You're sucking so far ...

 

[Gunny]

But these guys....they've got that whole dualing banjo inbreeding thing going...I swear one's head looks squashed in a vice and the other's comes to a point

And you can't fix that with some plaster of paris and duct tape?

Never say can't. I can do things with duct tape you ain't even imagined

I'm an electrician. I can do things with duct tape YOU ain't even imagined.

 

[Newby]

Canter has a crazy libtard bastard threaten to kill him and his entire family....ya...let that one slide right?

I did not. I believe that man has been arrested and indicted, and rightfully so.

Of course, he's not the person who's bullet hit Cantor's campaign office window after being randomly shot into the air, but he's still a scumbag that needs to go to jail.

And, by the way, the suspect in the threatening is not a left-wing type. He's a religious fanatic.

You seem to be living under the misconception that the left wing doesn't have religion. You couldn't be more wrong.